stevemcqueen1

2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

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The ES GMs Mock Draft needs a replacement GM for the Buccaneers, picking up early round 5.  Hopefully one of you draft gurus can flex your knowledge in the later rounds to help us finish it out please.  You can come in thread or PM me.  Thanks.

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1 hour ago, actorguy1 said:

Sign Hankins in 2018. Most likely a one year deal. Drop Mclain this season. Extend Scherff, resign Smith and Crowder. Drop Norman and Scandrick. And make secondary a priority in 2019 draft with the current 11 draft picks. Continue to be conservative in Free Agency next year. Success!!!

Scandrick maybe since his deal was built to be 1-year and done deal if we want to move on. But I think Norman sticks around especially if he has a solid year. I mean if we take Ward at 13 I think the writing is 100% on the wall for norman ... but he’s a “better” cut before 2020 

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49 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Scandrick maybe since his deal was built to be 1-year and done deal if we want to move on. But I think Norman sticks around especially if he has a solid year. I mean if we take Ward at 13 I think the writing is 100% on the wall for norman ... but he’s a “better” cut before 2020 

I like him as a trade next year personally, especially if he has a good/better year (which I’m expecting). If we manage to trade Reed and Norman, we save a bunch of cap and have a ton of ammo in next year’s draft... meaning we also add a bunch of cheaper contracts.  Which in turn means we (hopefully) don’t have to be active in FA beyond signing our own.    

 

Some points relating to why I think Norman has a better year, and why we could move on from him - adding Hankins helps the whole D, if Nicholson is healthy, he could have a big role in Norman not getting beat deep, and this year’s corner class is pretty deep.  We also would have another year from Moreau and Dunbar, as well as Holsey and whoever else we draft.  

 

On top of that, if we draft Fitzpatrick (and he plays in the slot), it should make it harder for teams to avoid Norman, or if we take Ward (as you mention), it gives us a replacement for Norman.  

 

Signing Hankins might lead to tough decisions next year, but it opens up our draft options (like taking Landry, or a db, for instance, as well as not forcing a DT/NT pick) and improves our D with a young talent.  They can move on from Hankins after Ioannidas signs his 2nd contract, but before Allen does, and possibly land a comp pick for it.  

 

The icing on the cake is Allen is more likely to keep his job, fans are more excited, etc. if Hankins is signed.  I’m not necessarily saying it’s the right move, but I think it might be for Allen.   

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I’m not totally opposed to Hankins. I just think we need to understand the downside. Of course signing Hankins and drafting a Fitzpatrick makes our defense borderline elite IMO if everyone clicks. But it would definitely lead to some hard decisions next year. But if we make the playoffs this year and trade Norman for a 5th next year to free up space to re-sign guys I’m cool with that strategy long term.

 

Right now we are set to have 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 7 ... that’s a lot picks to replenish but still, I’d rather not be in a position to have to move Norman 

 

assuming we draft a combination of DT, CB, RB, OG, LB this year and don’t bring anyone substantial in and bring back Scherff and Smith I think we go into next year with priorities being TE, S, ILB, Edge, OT, QB, CB, DE in no particular order. With 11 picks i think you’re in a good position to at least create depth and upside almost anywhere you have holes. 

Edited by JamesMadisonSkins
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Interesting on Deon Yelder. Not someone I’ve heard of and not on any of the Big Boards I just checked on FanSpeak. Would love a guy like that to come in and compete for a spot. If he’s not on these rankings maybe we go 7th or UDFA and put him on PS to groom for 2019 and beyond. 

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19 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I’m not totally opposed to Hankins. I just think we need to understand the downside. Of course signing Hankins and drafting a Fitzpatrick makes our defense borderline elite IMO if everyone clicks. But it would definitely lead to some hard decisions next year. But if we make the playoffs this year and trade Norman for a 5th next year to free up space to re-sign guys I’m cool with that strategy long term.

 

Right now we are set to have 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 7 ... that’s a lot picks to replenish but still, I’d rather not be in a position to have to move Norman 

 

assuming we draft a combination of DT, CB, RB, OG, LB this year and don’t bring anyone substantial in and bring back Scherff and Smith I think we go into next year with priorities being TE, S, ILB, Edge, OT, QB, CB, DE in no particular order. With 11 picks i think you’re in a good position to at least create depth and upside almost anywhere you have holes. 

I think a lot of people are going to see that Norman's game has gone downhill and it will be apparent this year.  Thus, he will be waived or out right released in 2019.  JMO.

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10 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

It might not be sexy, but Seattle needs an OT and CB. They have no 2 or 3. But they have 4 picks in Round 5, including two early in the round. 

 

If Denzel Ward is there, I’d call Seattle and say ... give me your 2 early 5ths and a 3rd or 4th next year and move up to 13. We don’t get a coveted 3rd ... but we get trade-up ammo and at worst 4 5th round picks to load up on depth guys who could replace starters next year if they get cut in FA. Or at least compete for spots. I’m thinking CB, TE, OT, ILB ... positions not immediately needed but areas we could use depth and upside at long term. Just a thought. 

 

1.18 - Derrius Guice RB LSU

2.12 - Tim Settle NT Va Tech

4.9 - Mark Andrews TE Arkansas

5.4 - Bradley Bozeman C Alabama

5.5 - Kevin Tolliver, CB LSU

5.9 - Quin Blanding, FS UVA

5.26 - Dorian O’Daniel, ILB Clemson

6.31 - Javon Rolland-Jones, Edge Ark St

 

Example through 6 rounds 

I like most of your draft but we still have no guard.  We also have a TE that can't block in Reed...so I would also pass on Andrews.  But I love the Settle pick and Blanding is interesting considering he was outstanding his freshman year.  Guice at #13 would shock me, but we will have to wait and see.  Here's my shot at a 6 round draft.

 

Round 1   Vita Vea  NT   Washington

Round 2   Connor Williams    T/G    Texas

Round 4   Nyheim Hines  RB   NC State

Round 5   Kemoko Turay   OLB   Rutgers

Round 5   Holton Hill   CB   Texas

Round 5   Genard Avery   ILB   Memphis

Round 6   Dane Cruicshank    FS    Arizona

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Josh Rosen is the type of personality who will bust in the NFL.  He's bright and confrontational and inquisitive.  There is zero chance he'll buy into the cult-like mentality you MUST adopt to make it in the NFL.

The NFL needs robots and the only two types of people who can cope with it's profoundly dehumanizing culture are the super Christians and the drunks.

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To continue on Rosen, his ESPN the mag interview responses come off as manic.  He comes off as difficult to coach and NFL coaches are defnitely going to get fed up with him continuously questioning them.  You can tell Jim Mora did.  I think it's clear that Rosen is a very strong personality with quite a sense of entitlement and he has no idea what he doesn't know yet, and he seems like the type who will be stubborn about things until they click for him.  And I think the NFL is going to serve him some humble pie.  The league ruthlessly enforces its culture of conformity and the players are going to police him if he fails to conform just as much as coaches and staff.

 

I think it'd be awful for him if the Jets end up picking him.  New York would be a great city for him to live in but not to play for.  He needs to go to a bum **** franchise that no one pays attention to.

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All that said, I really hope this kid pans out.  More so than anyone else in the draft.  The league needs men like him in it to evolve past its incredibly regressive social and moral cowardice.

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8 hours ago, Dexter said:

I like most of your draft but we still have no guard.  We also have a TE that can't block in Reed...so I would also pass on Andrews.  But I love the Settle pick and Blanding is interesting considering he was outstanding his freshman year.  Guice at #13 would shock me, but we will have to wait and see.  Here's my shot at a 6 round draft.

 

Round 1   Vita Vea  NT   Washington

Round 2   Connor Williams    T/G    Texas

Round 4   Nyheim Hines  RB   NC State

Round 5   Kemoko Turay   OLB   Rutgers

Round 5   Holton Hill   CB   Texas

Round 5   Genard Avery   ILB   Memphis

Round 6   Dane Cruicshank    FS    Arizona

Andrews would be a nice replacement for Reed and/or Davis though (after a year to develop).  I have major concerns about his blocking, but I’m not going to rule out the possibility he picks that aspect up.  

I do agree with your implication that we need a TE that can block - a well rounded TE is my preference.  

 

I think we could live/make do without drafting a guard, mostly if we address the run game by adding a back and either drafting a blocking TE or seeing Sprinkle on the field a lot more.  

 

With that said...

while I’ve been a big proponent of adding Guice (or Chubb), the more I think about it, I’d be ok trading down in the 1st, addressing our lines early (say Phillips and Price), drafting a decent all around TE (Schultz?), grabbing a sleeper rb that has some juice, and looking to add depth to corner, OLB, ILB and S.  

 

I’d be frustrated that we once again miss out on a top back, but beefing up the trenches would be a major step forward for us.  

 

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Increasingly, I think Fitzpatrick, James, Nelson, and Smith will be gone by the time we pick.  My hunch is that we will be choosing between Tremaine Edmunds, Vea, Payne, and Guice.  In my mind, the value is with Edmunds, but I'm not certain.  I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts on taking Edmunds over the tackles or the running back.  If this question has been covered earlier and I missed the responses, please ignore and forgive.  Thanks.

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15 minutes ago, dswerdlw said:

Increasingly, I think Fitzpatrick, James, Nelson, and Smith will be gone by the time we pick.  My hunch is that we will be choosing between Tremaine Edmunds, Vea, Payne, and Guice.  In my mind, the value is with Edmunds, but I'm not certain.  I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts on taking Edmunds over the tackles or the running back.  If this question has been covered earlier and I missed the responses, please ignore and forgive.  Thanks.

I can’t answer your question, but I’d love to see a trade down in that scenario.  The next option for me is probably either Edmonds or Landry (I’d lean toward the latter based off the little I do know).  

 

Trading back, Guice, Landry and Phillips would be my targets I think.  

 

Landry and then Chubb, Price or maybe Settle (seems a bit early)

 

Guice and then trading up for Phillips, or taking Price or maybe Settle

 

Phillips and then Chubb

 

I would consider going with a guard if we trade back in the 1st, and there are a couple receivers, OLBs, ILBs and corners I’d consider in the 2nd too.  

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Man, the Chargers would be a perfect trade partner at #17 if there is multiple team interest in Lamar J below us.

 

 

Edited by HigSkin

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42 minutes ago, dswerdlw said:

Increasingly, I think Fitzpatrick, James, Nelson, and Smith will be gone by the time we pick.  My hunch is that we will be choosing between Tremaine Edmunds, Vea, Payne, and Guice.  In my mind, the value is with Edmunds, but I'm not certain.  I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts on taking Edmunds over the tackles or the running back.  If this question has been covered earlier and I missed the responses, please ignore and forgive.  Thanks.

 

For me, in that scenario, the order is:


1. Trade down to 17 or so

2. Vea

3. Edmunds

4. Guice

5. Payne

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3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

That's a hysterical post after Steve's tirade about him. Perfect timing. :ols:

 

Part of me would want to take him.  I am going to be pulling for this kid.  But I would have a horrible feeling about him playing here.  Frankly, this town, and this fan base, are utter ****heads about quarterbacks.  We are far too insecure to ever handle him.  We certainly couldn't handle RGIII and Rosen is an even stronger and more nakedly independent personality.  We couldn't even handle mild-mannered, super wholesome, and ultra-durable Kirk Cousins.

 

I hope he goes to a more progressive and secure team and fanbase.

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1 hour ago, dswerdlw said:

Increasingly, I think Fitzpatrick, James, Nelson, and Smith will be gone by the time we pick.  My hunch is that we will be choosing between Tremaine Edmunds, Vea, Payne, and Guice.  In my mind, the value is with Edmunds, but I'm not certain.  I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts on taking Edmunds over the tackles or the running back.  If this question has been covered earlier and I missed the responses, please ignore and forgive.  Thanks.

 

In that situation I'd like to trade back a little if possible and still pick up Guice. Personally I'd take Guice over Vea and Payne in a heartbeat and I'd most likely take him over Edmunds...but a trade back and still getting him would be preferable.

 

Regarding Edmunds it could be a great pick but there are a couple of caveats. One is that while he's an athletic freak of nature and seems to have decent instincts, he's super raw and would require a good amount of coaching up so we wouldn't be picking up an instant All Pro. He consistently takes false steps and is easily fooled by play action. He makes crazy highlight-worthy plays but then he also takes himself out of lots of plays because of his seemingly poor understanding of reading keys and offenses as well as his lack of patience.

 

The other caveat is that, like Smith, he's probably more of a Mike ILB in a 3-4...the guy who you leave free from blocking and stack/shed responsibilities to go out and make plays. We already have that guy in Brown. Having two of the same player at ILB wouldn't be very good because you'd either be leaving yourself open or forcing one guy into a role he isn't good at.

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Just listened to Stick to Football Wednesday podcast from B/R Matt Miller and gang ... some tidbits:

- Lamar Jackson a lock to go 1st round

- Giants will absolutely take Darnold if Browns go Allen at #1

- Gesicki love is real, some scouts have said he's their favorite skill-position player outside of Barkley

- Goedert, Hurst are very well liked and could be 1st rounders as well

- McGlinchey back to being the top OT and a perfect fit for Seattle

- Connor Williams could end up playing Guard

- Bills likely to consider WR Sutton at #22 if no trade-up

- Philly shouldn't be overlooked at #32 for going for a skill-position ... could go for a TE or Sutton if he falls

- Austin Corbett is a Top 40 talent and very likely early 2nd round pick ... compared to Joel Bitinio, instant plug and play starter at Guard

- Luke Falk will go Round 2 because of 5-6 QBs in Round 1

- Barkley to a tee is a clone of LaDanian Tomlinson as far as measurable and physical attributes

- Oakland at 10 should go Safety if James or Fitz falls ... and if they're not there then they'd go Ward, then Smith, then Vea

- Jack Cicci was excellent at LB and even rushing passer in 2015 and 2016, but knee injury was brutal and will have him slide, Miller has him as a R5/6 but upside once fully recovered from injury

 

Underrated CBs:

- Levi Wallace (Bama), Dan Johnson (Southern) as an instant slot starter, and Nick Nelson (Wisconsin) coming off injury

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3 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

I think there is a significant chance that Rosen falls to 13. Would you guys pick him if he's available? I think maybe you have to. 

 

Absolutely. Love him as a talent, he and Mayfield and Darnold all look legit to me. Rosen and Mayfield probably have the most talent and highest ceiling, Darnold probably has the highest floor. 

 

I don't entirely agree with what I regard to a degree as a hysterical response to his personality especially considering this will be more common rather than less over time. This is a new generation of kids coming up with very different views about just about everything from the last of the dinosaurs in the league.

 

I do think, much like with Kizer, that if Rosen lands with a dinosaur GM and Coach, and/or just a dinosaur coach and/or just an idiot, he's in deep trouble. A lot of people have been talking more and more about the league discovering that O.C.'s are finally being understood to being crucial for offensive success and especially for young QB development. People watching what's happened with Goff, and Wentz in particular are focusing upon that, ditto Watson etc. The Jeff Fisher/John Fox effect has really been studied in terms of how god awful the offenses were w/those teams and how radical a change took place in St. Louis, and with San Francisco under Shanny. People remember that Kyle kicked butt in Cleveland, and when he was there, that was the last time Cleveland's offense functioned at any level whatsoever.

 

Look at Atlanta. Kyle is there, in year 1, Ryan really struggles to pick up in the offense, and in year 2 he has a career season, everything clicks. No doubt they were bound for regression even if Kyle stayed, but he left, Steve Sarkesian came in, and the entire offense totally and completely collapsed: Ryan, Jones, Freeman, Coleman, Hooper? Everything went into the toilet. 

 

People are starting to get that if you have an innovative, flexible, creative young mind, guys like Gurley, Goff, Ryan, and Garoppolo are going to be fantastic, and if you've got a John Fox, or Jeff Fisher or Sarkesian, you are going to be wondering if these young players are busts instead. 

 

Kyle turned a bunch of waiver wire level talent in SF, into an undefeated team when Garoppolo took over the offense.

 

Fisher had players litterally considering retirement over collecting massive paychecks to play AND LOSE BADLY AND UGLY under him. A year later they look like one of the best two teams in the NFL for much of the season with Gurley, and Goff blowing up, Cooper Kupp and Robert Woods actually looking damn good etc. 

 

Now look at these QB's and the teams in position to draft them:

 

Cleveland: Dinosaur program (likely fired after the '18 season though)

NYG: Appear to be going against QB, but they are a dinosaur program too.

NYJ: Dinosaur GM, not sure on the coach since he's our old Safety and a DC.

Denver: Terrible GM, HC coming off a disaster season.

Buffalo: Don't know the GM, the HC is a former DC.

 

The unfortunate thing about these young QB's is they all seem set to fall into the lap of terrible situations, every last one of them. I need to dig to find who the OC's are, but there's no arguing that the Giants, Jets, Broncos, or Bills are well set up in terms of having innovative offenses, and Cleveland's head coach while an OC, already completely torpedoed his own 2nd round QB in Kizer, ruining his rookie season on a whim. 

 

It's gonna be a tough road for all these guys. For Rosen the Giants might be the best option, but the dinosaur GM is a colossal idiot, so even though Shurmur's there, it doesn't look good either. For Rosen, I'd probably want to land, crap, honestly, NONE OF THESE PLACES. I think Todd Bowles is a good coach, but the Jets offense has always been a wreck, and still is, so even there is a problem. Feel bad for these guys, the landing spots back in '15, '16 and to a degree in '17 were much much more advantageous (Andy Reid in KC for Mahomes, Watson with O'Brien, Wentz landing with the Eagles and Reich and a former QB in Pederson, Goff getting our old OC, Winston landed with a solid former OC: across the board that is much, much, much better then the dumpster fire situations most of these guys are likely to land on in this draft). 

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