2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[Berggy9598]

1 minute ago, TheShredSkinz said:

Before the combine he was on a few lists to be a surprise top 10-20 pick. He plays to our scheme too.

 

That tells me there's little chance of us drafting him. 

[seantaylor=god]

I’m getting more and more confident Roquan Smith is available at our pick. I would take him unless James or Fitz is there.

 

ILBs don’t always go top 10- take a look at the historical numbers.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position&position=LB

 

I counted 14 ILBs, MLB, and OLB (not pass rushers) in the top 13 picks in the last 20 years. 

 

I also totally understand the argument that Smith is too similar to Zach Brown, but I think he can play the same position as Sua in nickel. He provides good depth if Brown gets hurt as well. It also gives us some nice flexiblity if Brown doesn’t improve in coverage to walk away from him in the next few years.

 

Finally, if we ever decide to go to 4-3, which I think we should, we can move Ryan Anderson to Strong-side OLB to compete with and possibly replace Mason Foster, move Brown to MLB (if he can ever learn the calls) and put Smith at WLB. I think Smith could also play MLB in the 4-3.

 

[mistertim]

Interesting about Maurice Hurst. He's definitely a good player but I'd be wary about comparing him to Aaron Donald as PFF kinda did in that article. Donald's numbers in college were absolutely off the charts...28.5 TFL and 11.5 sacks his senior year. Despite his size he was, IMO, close to a sure thing in the NFL because of his borderline video game stats in the backfield (and not in a D2 school or something). Hurst had good but not eye popping numbers this last season: 13 TFL and 5 sacks. Obviously stats are not everything and have to be taken with film and other considerations (scheme, opponents, etc) but they seem to be pretty decent predictors overall when all else is equal.

[Anselmheifer]

15 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Interesting about Maurice Hurst. He's definitely a good player but I'd be wary about comparing him to Aaron Donald as PFF kinda did in that article. Donald's numbers in college were absolutely off the charts...28.5 TFL and 11.5 sacks his senior year. Despite his size he was, IMO, close to a sure thing in the NFL because of his borderline video game stats in the backfield (and not in a D2 school or something). Hurst had good but not eye popping numbers this last season: 13 TFL and 5 sacks. Obviously stats are not everything and have to be taken with film and other considerations (scheme, opponents, etc) but they seem to be pretty decent predictors overall when all else is equal.

 

Aaron Donald's combine testing was also off the charts. Mo Hurst's numbers were pedestrian at best. That being said, watch his highlights. He jumps off the fiklm in a way very much unlike Payne and Vea. 

[The Consigliere]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Wouldn't this be perfect?  If Ponder and Locker and guys like that can climb - why not Rudolph?  Especially with the litany of teams looking for a QB.

 

https://www.ndtscouting.com/marino-bills-7-round-mock-draft/

There have been several dots that connect Mason Rudolph to the Buffalo Bills. While the personality and stylistic fit is obvious, the Bills met with Rudolph at the Senior Bowl, NFL Combine, attended Oklahoma State’s Pro Day, put him through a private workout and Buffalo is hosting Rudolph for a visit this weekend per Ian Rapoport.

And then there’s this.

 

Joe Marino@TheJoeMarino

 

 

#Bills GM Brandon Beane & Asst. GM Joe Schoen are here in Orlando for the Camping World Bowl between Oklahoma State and Virginia Tech. It's the 2nd time I'm aware of that Beane/Schoen were scouting Oklahoma State (QB Mason Rudolph) this season. #GoBills #BillsMafia

4:33 PM - Dec 28, 2017

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With Rudolph a sure possibility for Buffalo, what would the Bills’ draft class look like with him as the headliner? The best news in that scenario is Buffalo would not have to move higher in the draft to pick Rudolph and can use all of its draft capital to add talent to the roster.

Using the FanSpeak On The Clock Mock Draft Simulator, here is how that scenario that could play out for the Bills.

Round 1, pick 12:  Mason Rudolph, QB, Oklahoma State

Rudolph throws with good touch and illustrates the ability to find throwing windows to any level of the field. He throws with good anticipation and gives his targets a chance to pick up yards after the catch. He’s had considerable success challenging defenses vertically.

If Buffalo is unable to move higher in the draft then Rudolph could be the guy.

 

 

Seems too good to be true. 

[The Consigliere]

8 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

I would offer a 4th round pick in this years draft or a 3rd in next years draft for Jordan Howard. See if it fly’s. Think it would be the perfect complement to CT, is the bruiser Jay mentioned wanting. He’s 23 yrs old 6’1 225lbs, and can light it up. Would most fans be happy with him as our starting RB?

I would, just my Opinion. If we can make it happen I’d be all over it.

 

Not a fan. Has literally the worst hands for a RB I've ever seen, so he completely telegraphs play calling. If he's in, we aren't throwing the ball. 

 

I liked him as a value in the horrific '16 RB class because he was a top 4-5 back in the class, but the class was dog patch. I think he's done a remarkable job with middling talent. I don't think there's anything special in him other than the ability to be an effective grinder, which is nice, but problematic due to the lack of passing game chops. 

 

For all the talk of Chubb not being a legit threat in the passing game, he caught 18 balls as a freshman for more than 10 yards a clip, and 2 TD's (200+ yards). He can catch, he has solid hands, Georgia just didn't throw it to him (nor Michel) after his freshman year in particular. 

 

Get that you like him, but I'm not a fan of Howard, and I'd also argue that the Bears would want a 2nd rounder at minimum for Howard now that he's got 2 1,000 yard seasons behind him.

 

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

If we take Hurst, we would be selecting the two best DL in the draft in two consecutive years IMO.  Sign me up.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

@The Consigliere

 

idk, I’m not an expert, but a quick look at his stats says he had 5 drops out of 32 passes thrown to him in 17’. I know he had at least one big drop of a TD.... 

 

Over two years he has 52 catches, 29 his first and 23 his second. To me, that’s not the absolute worst hands I’ve ever seen. He’s stil just 23 yrs old with a chance to improve in the passing game,  29 catches isn’t terrible as a rook.  

 

In terms of compensation, Your probably right that it will take more than a 4th, I was suggesting it to see what it would really take. Maybe next years 3rd with escalators to a 2nd if he really lights it up with numbers or team success.  The overall point was let’s see what it would take and go from there, I think he’s worth the look if your  getting him at good value. 

[wilco_holland]

6 hours ago, seantaylor=god said:

I’m getting more and more confident Roquan Smith is available at our pick. I would take him unless James or Fitz is there.

 

ILBs don’t always go top 10- take a look at the historical numbers.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position&position=LB

 

I counted 14 ILBs, MLB, and OLB (not pass rushers) in the top 13 picks in the last 20 years. 

 

I heard on a podcast, sorry forget which one, that Smith might have red medical flags. If that's true he could fall to middle to late first and should be available for us. Could be Allen like situation but then less extreme (he was top 8 talent that fell to 17th. Smith is probably top 10 and could fall to 13th) 

[Epochalypse]

Looking to recruit a replacement GM for the Rams for our ES GMs mock draft.  If interested let me know.  First committed response gets the job.

[RemoveSnyder]

Is anyone here interested in being the GM for the LA Rams in our ES mock draft? 

The thread is pinned on the front page if you are unfamiliar with it. 

 

You'd inherent the remaining selections of the Rams and act as their GM, making the selection for whichever players you wanted. Write ups and elaborations on the players you select are always welcome but completely at your desire/discretion. 

 

One would need to jump in mid-stream to the draft which is at the end of the 3rd round. However, the last selection of the Rams was skipped and is still outstanding. So, anyone interested in that GM role would need to contact the Commissioner for arrangement, but a selection can be made immediately from the remaining pool of draft eligible players. 

 

You can hop right in and grab a player. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I haven’t run a Fanspeak that disregards RB or doesn’t do a trade down to set one up. Was curious to see how it would go. 

1: Maurice Hurst, DT Michigan

2: James Daniels, C/G Iowa

4: Akrum Wadley, RB Iowa

5: Kameron Kelly, S SDSU

5: Kevin Tolliver II, CB LSU

6: Christian Sam, ILB ASU

7: Javon Rolland-Jones, EDGE Arkansas

7: Antonio Callaway, WR Florida

 

Walton was gone. Wadley was the top RB in the 4th and went with it since we’ve scouted him. Hurst/Daniels would anchor the lines excellently. FWIW, top defender was Ward at 13 and Vea went 11 and the safeties went top 9 

[Skinsinparadise]

53 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Walton was gone. Wadley was the top RB in the 4th and went with it since we’ve scouted him. Hurst/Daniels would anchor the lines excellently. FWIW, top defender was Ward at 13 and Vea went 11 and the safeties went top 9 

 

Speaking of Walton just watched a Redskins Nation episode with Portis highlighting Rbs.  He did highlight Penny as one he liked.  On Cooley's show he was both positive and negative on him -- it was really Penny and Chubb where it was hard to get a read on him via his take.  But on the TV show he touted Penny.   Portis' take am interested in since he's supposedly a paid advisor to the FO on RBs.

 

On the show he touted Guice, Michel, Penny, Walton.  So that's now 3 connections to Penny.  Kiper saying he heard they like him.  Keim ditto.  And now the Portis drill.

 

 

 

[SWFLSkins]

 

[Epochalypse]

2 hours ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

Is anyone here interested in being the GM for the LA Rams in our ES mock draft? 

The thread is pinned on the front page if you are unfamiliar with it. 

 

You'd inherent the remaining selections of the Rams and act as their GM, making the selection for whichever players you wanted. Write ups and elaborations on the players you select are always welcome but completely at your desire/discretion. 

 

One would need to jump in mid-stream to the draft which is at the end of the 3rd round. However, the last selection of the Rams was skipped and is still outstanding. So, anyone interested in that GM role would need to contact the Commissioner for arrangement, but a selection can be made immediately from the remaining pool of draft eligible players. 

 

You can hop right in and grab a player. 

 

2 hours ago, Epochalypse said:

Looking to recruit a replacement GM for the Rams for our ES GMs mock draft.  If interested let me know.  First committed response gets the job.

We have our GM.

 

Thanks.

[The Consigliere]

10 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

@The Consigliere

 

idk, I’m not an expert, but a quick look at his stats says he had 5 drops out of 32 passes thrown to him in 17’. I know he had at least one big drop of a TD.... 

 

Over two years he has 52 catches, 29 his first and 23 his second. To me, that’s not the absolute worst hands I’ve ever seen. He’s stil just 23 yrs old with a chance to improve in the passing game,  29 catches isn’t terrible as a rook.  

 

In terms of compensation, Your probably right that it will take more than a 4th, I was suggesting it to see what it would really take. Maybe next years 3rd with escalators to a 2nd if he really lights it up with numbers or team success.  The overall point was let’s see what it would take and go from there, I think he’s worth the look if your  getting him at good value. 

 

He finished #1 in drops for a RB in 2016, and after eye surgery, #2 in drops for a RB in 2017, totaling 12 drops on 82 targets. The 58% catch rate in 2016 was considered by many, abominably bad. They cut down in the targets in 2017 and his catch rate improved to I think 72%. He just has terrible hands, but in fairness, he did improve a bit in ‘17 after the surgery, just not nearly enough.

 

There is an angle you're forgetting that's relevant and it's contract. 

 

Howard's on a super cheap deal, but he's a verifiable hit, so in two years, he comes due for a new deal and he'll be looking for good money.

 

Target a RB in round 2, you get the cheap deal for 4 years, or in the first round, and you get them 4 years with a 5th year option. 

 

For me, the extra years on the rookie deal cancel out the known commodity that Howard is, especially considering his poor pass catching chops in a Jay Gruden offense. Would rather draft one, especially in this loaded class, and again, Howard's basically what we thought Perine was going to be, but w/Perine having better hands. It's tripling down on the same RB type. We're supposedly trying to get a more complete back with athleticism, which is probably why we're high on Barkley/Guice/Penny/Michel/Chubb etc. They are more complete backs than Perine and Kelley and add a lot more to the offense if they hit. 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

@The Consigliere

Just for clarity https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2017&week=100&category=RECEIVING&opp=0&sort=11&qualified=1&sortOrder=0&page=1

 

Howard was tied for 9th in the league (with a bunch of people) for dropped passes in 2017.

 

About the $ in two years, To just pencil in a rook and think you are going to get Howard’s production is a bit naive, imo. 

 

But ok I get it, you don’t like him, just think you are overstating how bad his hands are. Either way all good, I’m not advocating going to get him BAMN..✌?

 

 

[actorguy1]

Brand new video. Gives his top 11 DT picks. 

[BattleCreekJ]

We need size and aggression.

Both lines. Skill positions like RB WR LB S, etc are great to go get...if you’re not getting beat up front. This team has been getting beaten in the trenches for many, many years now. We need nasty linemen and blocking TEs badly. If we can finish our lines this year, next year we draft for a Super Bowl run by trading up for a great 1st rd running back talent.

The thing with taking rbs 1st or 2nd rd, is their run ends in avg 4-5 years. Whereas a Wil Hernandez or Quentin Nelson will be most likely still going strong 10 years from now. 

Anyway, my rationale for this:

 

Rd 1 & 2 :

Nelson Vea Payne Hurst Hernandez Corbett B.Smith Daniels pretty much in this order. Fix NT and LG. 

Rd 4 RB

Penny or Samuels 

Rd 5 LB/S/TE

Griffin or Shaun Dion

Edmunds or Whitehead

Schultz or Smythe (run muscle)

Rd 6

see above

Rd 7 fliers

Levi wallace Brian Allen Joe Ostman Danny Johnson Allen Lazard PJ Hall DJ Reed Tegray Scales.

Peace out Redskin Nation.

Hope you’re all having a great weekend.

J

 

 

[mistertim]

Been watching cutups of Hurst today and for me it's a mixed bag. Some good stuff some bad. On the good side he seems to have a really nice burst and get off from the line. He can knife through the OL quickly on occasion and get into the backfield to disrupt plays. He has some decent pass rush moves. He has good pursuit speed and seems to have a high motor. Also lined up at many different spots so seems versatile. 

 

On the bad side it seems like when a decent OL guy can get their hands on him he's neutralized way too easily. Not many counter moves it seems once he's engaged and a guy is in his pads. Gets completely taken out of the play by any double team; I think I saw him beat a double team once in the 4 game cutups I've watched so far. Where some guys get too high in their pads he sometimes tries to get too low in order to knife through, but sometimes it ends up with him being pancaked easily. Will sometimes take odd angles to try and beat his guy without regard for where the play is going and it takes him out of some plays.

 

That's just initial. Definitely some stuff I like a lot, but there are also some things that give me pause, especially as any sort of NT prospect. The ease with which he's neutralized and pushed back with double teams doesn't really bode well for that position. Has some decent pass rush moves (nice spin move) but rarely uses them. Definitely better than Payne, between him and Vea I'm "meh"...very different players with very different skill sets. Will need to watch a bit more.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just listened to a Daniel Jeremiah podcast, he said in it that Mark Walton has some good buzz going now and he wouldn't be shocked if he lands in the 2nd round, one of the top 50 picks.

[HTTRDynasty]

While this is true, I'm kind of tired of stuff like this from him... someone is probably feeling a little threatened with the Fitz/James to the Redskins talk.

 

 

[mistertim]

Yeah I have a hard time seeing DJ saying that in any sort of unbiased way after hearing that we're high on Fitz and James. And while he has a point, our run defense wasn't nearly that bad early on before we got decimated by injuries there.

[Cypress]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

While this is true, I'm kind of tired of stuff like this from him... someone is probably feeling a little threatened with the Fitz/James to the Redskins talk.

 

 

 

Yup, completely agree. One year we have the worst 3rd down conversion D, we fix that and then our run D is awful. We just have to get better across the board. To do that we need difference makers. With the likely run on QB's I think one of those elite talents will fall to us at #13 and we take him.

[The Consigliere]

5 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

@The Consigliere

Just for clarity https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2017&week=100&category=RECEIVING&opp=0&sort=11&qualified=1&sortOrder=0&page=1

 

Howard was tied for 9th in the league (with a bunch of people) for dropped passes in 2017.

 

About the $ in two years, To just pencil in a rook and think you are going to get Howard’s production is a bit naive, imo. 

 

But ok I get it, you don’t like him, just think you are overstating how bad his hands are. Either way all good, I’m not advocating going to get him BAMN..✌?

 

 

 

I was referencing RB's. WR's receive vastly more targets, for instance Hopkins had more than 320 targets in the two years since Jordan Howard came into the league. 9 Combined drops on those 326 targets. Howard not surprisingly, had far fewer targets, and in a rarity, still had more drops, in this case, 12 drops on a total of 82 targets. 

 

WR's litter the top of drop lists both because the sheer quantity of the targets, which necessitates more drops, and the greater difficulty of the receptions themselves compared to designed screens and things of that sort. 

 

Not overstating, and I don't dislike him. I think as a pure runner, there are few that get more out of less. He's not a great athlete, not close, but still produces as a runner like he very much is a great athlete. He's a good young runner. While he ran what appears to be a superficially slow 40 (4.57) when accounting for size, it actually comes out as 79th percentile, but in the 3 cone, and the burst drills he was disappointing (41st and 50th percentile scores). Nothing else in his profile is attractive, but watch him out there, and even w/a broken down offense lead by a totally inept coaching staff w/no QB worth a damn and every single WR out for the year, he still chugged away for 1,000+ both years and not Jaime Morris 1988 style (500 carries for 1000 yards sorta thing). There's a lot to recommend him.

 

I want a young RB w/o a lot of tread on his tires on a cheap 4 year rookie deal that's talented. The 2017 and 2018 classes had and have quite a few of these backs. I think they're more attractive as assets, especially when we aren't contending for squat. I consider the wear on a young RB's body a big issue, and so having a RB that's as young and talented as possible and cheap is my priority. Guice is 20, Chubb and Penny are 22 and Michel is 23. Howard's young as well at 23, but those carries....

 

Just different team building preferences I guess, but no, definitely don't dislike him. Just think there are guys that are better fits.