2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

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Cowboys doing most of their Top 30 visits this week. Headed to Dallas: UCLA OL Kolton Miller, Alabama WR Calvin Ridley, LB Rashaan Evans and DL Da'Ron Payne, Washington DL Vita Vea, Iowa OL James Daniels, Maryland WR DJ Moore, Florida DL Taven Bryan and BC DE Harold Landry.

[The Consigliere]

11 hours ago, mistertim said:

Guice always says that he models his game after Beast Mode and his 2016 tape actually really does remind me of Lynch's college tape...his burst, lateral agility, vision and of course violent running style. Barkley reminds me of LT with his absolutely ludicrous change of direction, footwork, and juking ability combined with his vision,

 

If Guice is going to be back to his 2016 self I'd have zero issues taking him at 16 because he'd likely be a game changer. However, I have to admit that I'm a bit worried about his longevity with his running style. That said Beast Mode is still going strong after 10 years in the league.

 

He will, as long as he's healthy. He was hurt for nearly all of the '17 season and he isn't Jack Youngblood (who is?). 

 

If we get Guice, Penny, Chubb or to a lesser extent Michel, I'm happy, if we get Freeman in the late third via a trade down or 4th, I'd be fine w/it so long as we maximized our early picks. Anybody else other than Barkley and I'm blanking bricks that our running game will suck big time yet again in 2018. 

 

 

[mistertim]

If we disregard RB until the 4th or so round again I'll probably go nuts. Not having an impact bell cow RB is IMO this team's most glaring hole. This whole "committee by JAGs" sucks. Outside of CT, none of our guys are anything special and while I absolutely love CT he's really not an every down lead back. Kelly is mediocre...good effort, decent grinder but lacks vision and agility. Perine is also mediocre...had high hopes for him and he started to look better as the season went on but he also lacks the agility and vision and for a guy as big as he is I'm consistently amazed at how easily he's taken down. We also have very little speed outside of CT.

 

 

 

So totally different topic....this is incredibly unlikely but if somehow James and Fitz both fall to 13, what do you do? If you take one, which? Or do you hope that our safety situation is ok and find trade partners to move back a little bit?

[JamesMadisonSkins]

@mistertim

 

well one will likely got to 14 with Green Bay and if we are trading back I’m assuming the team trading up wants one of them before GB picks. So doubt we’d trade down and still get one. 

 

That being said, I’ve heard James is more of a SS but one that can also play the Cravens LB type role while Fitz is a pure FS ... Nicholson and Swearinger are both technically FS. so the need is probably at SS with James. Although I’d love either one. 

 

Jamses = coverage SS who can play LB In some aets

 

Fifz = FS or CB 

 

could be wrong on James. I’m using other people’s expertise in those two descriptions and safety seems hardest to diagnose (SS V. FS) 

[skinny21]

54 minutes ago, mistertim said:

If we disregard RB until the 4th or so round again I'll probably go nuts. Not having an impact bell cow RB is IMO this team's most glaring hole. This whole "committee by JAGs" sucks. Outside of CT, none of our guys are anything special and while I absolutely love CT he's really not an every down lead back. Kelly is mediocre...good effort, decent grinder but lacks vision and agility. Perine is also mediocre...had high hopes for him and he started to look better as the season went on but he also lacks the agility and vision and for a guy as big as he is I'm consistently amazed at how easily he's taken down. We also have very little speed outside of CT.

 

 

 

So totally different topic....this is incredibly unlikely but if somehow James and Fitz both fall to 13, what do you do? If you take one, which? Or do you hope that our safety situation is ok and find trade partners to move back a little bit?

Yeah...I’m not gonna be thrilled if we wait till the 4th either. 

 

One thing I could see is (depending on who’s available) perhaps trading back a bit from 44 and picking up Johnson or Penny.  

 

 

I take Fitz all day, but it’s purely for philosophical reasons.  James and Smith are special, but they don’t offer the same versatility.  Our safeties are both one deep, and we don’t seem to have a slot corner.  On top of that, we now have added insurance for whenever we move on from Norman. 

 

 

 

Related to the NT discussion, what I’ll point out is that we need a NT and a DT.  Heck, we may need a DE too.  I believe Hankins and a few of the top draftees could handle all of those spots.  If we dip back in for DL later in the draft, or pick up a FA, we have more flexibility.  That flexibility, or versatility, is the name of the game for me this offseason... we have multiple spots that need to be filled/upgraded, and we have tough cap decisions as well as dealing with fewer picks in the draft (and it’s a crapshoot).  

Of course, I also believe that the guys many are viewing as run stuffers - the NTs I mention below - can also push the pocket.  I believe we’ve harped on this enough in the past - we don’t necessarily need a productive pass rusher inside, we need a guy that helps the guys around him, in both the run and pass game.  

 

If we’re looking to be competitive in a hurry, I think that versatility I mentioned earlier is a good way to gain an edge.  A guy that can play DT or NT (Hankins, Logan, Vea/Payne, etc.), one that can play safety and slot corner (Mathieu/Fitzpatrick), and a solid TE that can block and catch... those have been some of my bigger priorities, along with WR, RB and LG.  

[actorguy1]

Nickel defense is where Redskins were worst against the run. A true NT is going to be off the field on those downs. Need a DT that is able to stay on the field. 

[The Consigliere]

Barfield's yard created final stats are now up. He posted the link on twitter. The article is only free for a short time (hours, days, maybe a week, not sure, well, WELL worth reading). 

 

www.fantasyguru.com/articles/yards-created-2018-stacked-boxes

 

Some key findings:

Barkley is a monster

Guice is an insane monster when you factor in the stacked boxes he faced w/in an archaic blocking system

Penny is excellent.

Chubb is the jack of all formations and defensive personel set ups.

Jones stinks, especially in 10 and 11 personel.

 

If you're curious about the RB class, the combine analytics piece up on player profiler is huge, and this is a great tape analysis model, and they just posted a new breakout age model on rotoviz a few weeks ago that underlines how crucially important production is at an early age for RB's in college in terms of future success at the NFL level (one of those hidden details-the hit rate of RB's who produced big time in their age 19 and 20 seasons is significantly higher than any other metric in terms of future success). 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I just saw they are having another meeting with Billy Price.  By my count that's their 3rd meeting with him.  So I gather real interest.  The are also meeting with Josh Sweat.

[skinny21]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I just saw they are having another meeting with Billy Price.  By my count that's their 3rd meeting with him.  So I gather real interest.  The are also meeting with Josh Sweat.

Presumably Price would be an option in a trade back scario, no?  I suppose it could be a wishful thinking scenario that he’ll drop to 44 (or they’d trade up for him from there).  

 

Price would be a high end target for me dropping to the 20s, along with Guice, Moore, Bryan, Phillips (and a few others).  

 

Kinda goes back to the post I made about versatility in the FA thread - Roullier last year, and now Price - strong G/C option.  Can’t complain about beefing up our interior.  

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

@mistertim

 

well one will likely got to 14 with Green Bay and if we are trading back I’m assuming the team trading up wants one of them before GB picks. So doubt we’d trade down and still get one. 

 

That being said, I’ve heard James is more of a SS but one that can also play the Cravens LB type role while Fitz is a pure FS ... Nicholson and Swearinger are both technically FS. so the need is probably at SS with James. Although I’d love either one. 

 

Jamses = coverage SS who can play LB In some aets

 

Fifz = FS or CB 

 

could be wrong on James. I’m using other people’s expertise in those two descriptions and safety seems hardest to diagnose (SS V. FS) 

 

I think the big difference between James and Fitz is basically Fitz is ready to be an immediate quality starter on day one at pretty much any DB position and is very polished (basically very pro ready, like most good Bama prospects), whereas James is less experienced and more raw but is a complete freak of nature as far as his athletic ability as well as instincts, with the upside to become an absolute game changer with some time and practice. So it's that age old question...do you go with the excellent plug and play pro-ready guy or the guy who may not be as pro ready yet but who has the ridiculous potential to be a complete monster? I'm pretty torn on it because I love Fitz and I think he's an excellent player who could come in and immediately be a good player for us but James has the potential to be a guy that offenses have to game plan to stay away from. Also from all accounts both of them are high character leaders so it isn't an issue of James not being coachable or lazy...it's just him not having as much experience. 

 

As far as SS vs FS I think you're correct in that right now Fitz would be able to play the single high safety role well and James would mostly be in the box but I think that again comes back to experience. As James learns and gets better at understanding offenses and diagnosing them I think he'd easily be able to evolve into that high safety role as he has the speed and range and ball skills to do it. You'd have to have some patience with James and play to his strengths at first...which would be at SS where he could just use his instincts and then move towards more of hybrid/FS role. IIRC that's what the Skins basically did with Sean Taylor (not saying James is as good a prospect or will be as good but he reminds me of ST a bit as far as his athletic ability, range, instincts, and hitting ability). ST started out more SS in the box where he used his instincts to create havoc but eventually turned into one of, if not the best, single high FS guys in the league at the time.

 

Tough decision, though I'm inclined to think the Skins would go more conservative and go with the pro ready guy in Fitz (and I certainly would have zero problem with that pick).

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am more optimistic than you, I'd say 50-50 he's there.  If not him Denzel Ward. D. James.   The math works as long as there is 1 climber. In some mocks McGlinchey, Davenport, Landry, L. Jackson, Vea, Ridley go top 12.  All that has to happen is for 1 of those players to make it -- my best guess is that's Landry.  I guess the other wild card is are Edmonds and R. Smith slam dunk top 12 players?   I could see R. Smith or Edmonds make it to 13 over Fitzpatrick.  That's why I am at 50-50. 

 

QBs:  Rosen, Mayfield, Allen, Darnold

DE:  Chubb

RB:  Barkley

MLB:  Edmonds, R. Smith

OG:  Q. Nelson 

Those are 9 guys.  

 

 

 

I'll make you a friendly bet that Minkha and Ward are absolute lock top 10 picks and James doesn't make it to 13. I have a feeling Fitzpatrick will go to Cleveland at 4. He's a top 5 talent and NFL teams aren't the media speculating. They won't let him get out pf the top 10. 

 

More chance someone like Nelson dropping to 11/12 down to fit/ need. For one of the top 3 DB's this class, IMHO, to land in Washington will take a move up. 

 

Educated guess but come back to this post draft day for ****s and giggles. 

 

Hail. 

[The Consigliere]

11 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Just read a comp of playing style saying Guice is basically what hunt was last year in the NFL. 

 

Sign me up. Even at 13. But ideally after trading down. A game changing RB has been on my wish list since it was apparent Perine wasn’t it. 

 

A game changing RB, DT, LG in order i think contribute to our 2018 success. If a guy like Guice makes your offense Top 10 in scoring you aren’t gonna feel the pangs of a DL that’s good but not great as much. 

 

And similarly ... a DT that makes your defense Top 10 makes having a Top 10 offense less necessary. 

 

A dominant LG could make your pedestrian RBs very good but it’s one layer removed from a direct impact on the offense to me as an RB, if that makes sense. 

 

Now if if you got a dominant LG AND RB to double down, even better. But then you are likely sacrificing the Fromt 3 on defense by gambling on a 4th round NT and hope someone falls

 

I don't see that at all. Who said it? I'm extremely distrustful of a lot of comps because they tend to be lazy. The metrics comp for him believe it or not is Zeke Elliot. 

 

Size:

Guice 5'11-224-31.2 BMI

Zeke 6'0"-225-30.5 BMI

Hunt 5'10"-216-31.0 BMI

 

Speed Score:

Guice: 110.2/90th Percentile (4.49)

Elliot: 112.7/94th Percentile (4.47)

Hunt: 94.9/43rd Percentile (4.62)

 

Dominator:

Guice: 70th Percentile

Elliot: 84th Percentile

Hunt: 60th Percentile

 

Yards Per Carry:

Guice: 96th Percentile

Elliot: 80th Percentile

Hunt: 91st Percentile

 

Breakout Age:

Guice: 19 (1494 Total Yards from Scrimmage (183-1387 rushing) and 10 TD's)

Elliot: 19 (2098 Total Yards from Scrimmage (273-1878) and 18 TD's)

Hunt: 18 (137-866-6 as a freshman, doubled those numbers as a 19 year old sophomore)

 

So that's the raw #'s. In terms of looking at them play, Guice just doesn't remind me of Hunt at all. I think some cross between Fournette and Elliot is a bit closer, though he's not as strong as Fournette, I think he's technically, a better runner than Fournette. It's hard to think of a good comp, try to think of fast, ferocious physical guys, I'm old, and if I go through all the teams through my 43 year old man rolodex the pretty fast, ferocious runners that like to plow through people in their prime?

 

Athletic, speedy backs that were physical:

 

Walter Payton

James Wilder

Young Gerald Riggs in his Atlanta Days

Fred Taylor (though he was small)

Deuce McAllister

Marshawn Lynch

Frank Gore

Stump Mitchell

Eric Dickerson

Curtis Martin

Jamal Lewis

Priest Holmes

Rashard Mendenhall (not as athletic or fast though)

Edge

Larry Johnson

Young Ernest Byner

 

But I don't know which comps are the best of them? Earl Campbell probably wasn't fast enough, Payton, nobodies Payton, Wilder? I don't know how fast he was, but they ran somewhat similarly, with Guice of course being more athletic and Wilder being more physical and strong and big. Riggs WAS fast when he was young AND big and that makes me wonder, ditto Lynch and Gore, though I don't think quite Guice's speed. Dickerson, Like Payton, was a once a decade talent, so it doesn't work that well. I can vaguely remember Martin as a physical runner but it's been almost twenty years, same with Jamal Lewis who might have had a bit more finesse to his game before he went away for a while and then became a grinder. Mendenhall wasn't athletic enough. So probably the closest comps to me would be Payton, Riggs, Lynch, Gore, a lesser Dickerson, and Edge. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

3 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

..... Payton,nobodies Payton .....

1

 

Quoted for truth!

 

The best there ever was. And probably the best they'll ever be. 

 

God rest Sweetness. 

 

Hail. 

[DC Lumber Co.]

Regardless of our plan of attack early in the draft for D-Line help, I'd like to see us draft Foley Fatukasi out of UConn in rounds 4-6. Kid has Tomsulas pet project written all over him.

 

He is 6ft 4" 315lbs with his main knock being lapses in technique and simply being raw. He played Nose and 3-tech at UConn and would fit perfectly in our scheme as an End in base with the ability to slide inside to DT in sub. He's a pocket destroyer and just needs to put it all together. 

 

Im pretty confident the kid is going to be a great pro just like I was with Deatrich Wise last year who went to the patriots in the 4th.

 

He's the exact type of player you should try and draft every year to keep feeding the DL rotation in hopes of building something epic.

 

Allen, Ioannidis, Lanier, and Fatukasi would make for a great young group.

[The Consigliere]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That's because of their elusive ratings -- Guice wasn't the elusive dude in 2017 that he was in 2016.  PFF is about the last season.  To PFF, R. Penny is the Maurice Hurst of running backs (along with Barkley).

 

They do some things really well and some things poorly. That's why I tend to trust rotoviz and roto underworld and barfield and groups like that more. They are building and refining models every year, and they put together evals based on much more complex data markers than just elusive ratings in a draft season. It's a bit annoying, just a little digging reveals that what RB's do when they're young, is far more crucial than how they perform in their final season, it's WR's who have a production arc that's more predictive of future success (combine breakout age, with a climbing mark through a young final draft year, and you've got a stud WR prospect, especially if the combine #'s back it up), RB's, really comes down to a combo of breakout age data and combine #'s and physical measurables related to size/BMI etc.

 

There are still guys people miss on, Kareem Hunt was a tape geeks dream last year, while he was confusing to the analytics community (great #'s, market share, breakout age, but not athletic), Kamara was also really difficult and another tape guys win because there just wasn't enough data to work with after he left Alabama went to JC, then transferred to Tennessee but had to share the backfield with five star disappointment Jalen Hurd (who transferred halfway through 2016), so the data on him was incomplete, the combine #'s were solid but not blow the doors off good, so basically, it was just closing your eyes shut and hoping with him that what you saw on tape presaged a much more productive future than college career. 

 

Not easy doing this stuff. 

 

I think there are two or three trap door's F.O.'s will fall through with the leagues more or less consensus top 7 backs (Barkley, Guice, Jones, Michel, Chubb, Penny, K. Johnson), I happen to think the most likely candidates are Michel, Jones, and Johnson, but I still like Michel. Johnson is not a guy I'd take before day 3, and my top 8 are very different from the leagues. I am far more inclined to trust math geeks with a bit of tape to balance it, then the reverse, people are attracted visually to thinks that bias them: RB's plowing through linebackers and safeties, RB's that explode off the screen in the open field (Jones), this is why if you look at clips online, so many of them are utterly useless (you get NOTHING out of a clip that shows a RB racing for 60 yard TD's untouched after bouncing it outside because their opponent is some weak sisters of the poor school, or the RB's offensive line pancaked everyone on the play). I like finding the truth in the numbers, then looking at the tape afterwards to see what the game actually looks like. The numbers aren't going to lie, the model's eventually are built well enough to assist you in determining what approaches are most likely to reveal the best chances of "guessing" correctly. The recent studies linking breakout age, market share, size, and combine metrics to success are really infinitely more reliable then Mayock's sources that give him his top 5's (though if you add in draft capital to a model, it makes a model even more accurate because players drafted earlier are given far more leeway for mistakes, and far more opportunities for playing time-case in point: Green Bay had to lose two running backs to even consider the truth: that 5th rounder Aaron Jones was easily the best RB on the team. I'm not convinced they even realize that now, even though it's patently obvious-and w/o said injuries, there wouldn't even be a debate, Green Bay would be starting Jamaal Williams, or would have signed or drafted another RB this year out of dissatisfaction with the position-they're a stupid team w/a bad F.O. and a terrible HC that have been consistently bailed out by having back to back HOF QB's, once Rodgers retires, if the same staff are in place they are going to suck, and suck big time. Same thing in NYG-laughing hard that they brought in another idiot to replace the idiot GM they fired. Gettleman spent his career destroying his cap with idiotic signings and contracts (having twice as much invested in solid but unspectacular RB's in a passing league with Cam Newton desperately needing WR help?), and consistently botching draft picks as well, running his franchise QB's prime. Total moron. Now he's running OBJ out of town because he's a complete idiot. Thank God. Even if our F.O. sucks, at least we can thank the heavens that two of the other three F.O.'s in the East are also total dumpster fires.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

I'll make you a friendly bet that Minkha and Ward are absolute lock top 10 picks and James doesn't make it to 13. I have a feeling Fitzpatrick will go to Cleveland at 4. He's a top 5 talent and NFL teams aren't the media speculating. They won't let him get out pf the top 10. 

 

More chance someone like Nelson dropping to 11/12 down to fit/ need. For one of the top 3 DB's this class, IMHO, to land in Washington will take a move up. 

 

Educated guess but come back to this post draft day for ****s and giggles. 

 

Hail. 

 

OK you are on.  Yeah I doubt James and Ward are there.  But I think 50-50 Fitzpatrick is.  As long as the mocks are correct about Edmonds and R. Smith going top 12.  But I'll take the context out of it and bet that he's there.  

 

Rumors are Browns want Barkley or Chubb at 4 whichever drops.

 

8 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Presumably Price would be an option in a trade back scario, no?  I suppose it could be a wishful thinking scenario that he’ll drop to 44 (or they’d trade up for him from there).  

 

Price would be a high end target for me dropping to the 20s, along with Guice, Moore, Bryan, Phillips (and a few others).  

 

Kinda goes back to the post I made about versatility in the FA thread - Roullier last year, and now Price - strong G/C option.  Can’t complain about beefing up our interior.  

 

As for Price maybe they are thinking the injury drops him to the 2nd -- ala Fuller, Moreau dropping to the third?  Or maybe they are that sold on him they'd consider him in a trade back.  But I can't recall them kicking the tires so much on one guy in multiple settings.

[RWJ]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for Price maybe they are thinking the injury drops him to the 2nd -- ala Fuller, Moreau dropping to the third?  Or maybe they are that sold on him they'd consider him in a trade back.  But I can't recall them kicking the tires so much on one guy in multiple settings.

True on Price.  I think it will make it 3 x they will have met with him.  I can see them selecting Price in a trade down or maybe 2nd round.  If Vea is there I think he's the pick at #13, if not a trade down with someone, hopefully AZ, then Guice or possibly Price at #15.  It's also possible they nab Guice with their 1st (#15 if trade happens) then draft Price, if there in the 2nd.

[Est.1974]

Great to see we appear to be tracking Price, you never know the injury may help him slide to 44. Worked for last year with our 3rd rounder.

 

Also, I do wonder if the QB hype in this draft is being overdone. Is it realistic that 4 or 5 go top 15. I'm not even sure the Browns will take one. They could go Chubb and Fitzpatrick, then either trade back up for a QB or go QB and RB at the top of the second. 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Great to see we appear to be tracking Price, you never know the injury may help him slide to 44. Worked for last year with our 3rd rounder.

 

Also, I do wonder if the QB hype in this draft is being overdone. Is it realistic that 4 or 5 go top 15. I'm not even sure the Browns will take one. They could go Chubb and Fitzpatrick, then either trade back up for a QB or go QB and RB at the top of the second. 

 

Speaking of QBs, I just caught the tail end of a segment on NFL am where they talked about which team is the biggest threat to the Eagles and one said the Giants.

 

One one hand on my end, I think it would be great for the Giants to skip drafting a QB while relying on aging and fading Eli Manning.  On the other hand, I am going to hate hearing all the off season hype about how the Giants are unstoppable with all their weapons and Barkley in the mix.  But the more I digest it -- the more I am hoping the Bills don't give them a bounty of picks in a trade down.  

 

If the Browns go Allen, supposedly the Giants take Darnold.  And I am starting to think that's fine.  

[bedlamVR]

@Skinsinparadise

 

I am kind of struggling to understand what the Giants are doing right now. Seriously. - I honestly cannot see how they don't go QB at 2 BUT.... 

They are supposedly transitioning to the 3-4 (overhaul on defense) - more so now they have moved on from JPP (OLB is a key position in Bettcher’s scheme, so you have to wonder if Chubb is in play at 2? 

 

Also, Gettleman is, as has been said, huge on RBs so if the Browns don't go Barkley No.1. then Barkley at 2? 

Or potentially even crazier Nelson at 2. 

 

Personally, i think the Giants outthink themselves trade back (with the Bills, for maybe 12,22 and either a 2nd or future 1st ) and end up missing on impact players which the roster desperately needs. for quantity. - 

 

I am not dismissing them trading Beckham either - but, lets say for instance they trade with the Rams, 23rd pick and somewhere near the same next year is in my mind a bag of chips for a player who transforms that Giants offense.  

 

The issue being is what the Giants does at 2 is in my mind a pivot point in the draft. If the Giants stick at 2 and pick anything other than a QB (unlikely) then that will shake up the top order significantly and who might be available at 13 and what our options are. 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

As far as 4th or 5th round DL the “kid” out of Fort Hays State (he will be 26 or 27 this year) could be a steal. He will fall because he’s from a small school and Canadian and is older, apparently, as a result of having to go work to pay for school earlier on. Nathan Sheperd.

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, bedlamVR said:

 

The issue being is what the Giants does at 2 is in my mind a pivot point in the draft. If the Giants stick at 2 and pick anything other than a QB (unlikely) then that will shake up the top order significantly and who might be available at 13 and what our options are. 

 

 

Agree.  I am a bit hung up on Fitzpatrick, that's my dream fall to #13.  For that to happen it looks like 2 teams are especially the danger teams to get in the way Tampa and Miami.  Maybe SF.   Gase worked for Saban so naturally takes his word seriously.

 

If the Giants for example trade out of #2.  Then you likely have either Chubb or Barkley falling out of the top 4 picks.  That could set up some odd dominos.

 

I was just reading the SF 49ers are sniffing hard around Davenport.  They are poking around him like we are with Price.   Tampa is interesting where I've read they love Nelson and D. James.   If somehow its Nelson that falls to them. That could be interesting.

 

But agree the domino starts with the Giants.   Purely from the stand point of players falling -- best case scenario is they take a QB or trade down.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just caught this Riggo Rag Redskins mock.  GHH's bet in trouble.    Another dude having Fitzpatrick fall.  Just reading stuff here in South Florida, I hope the Dolphins fill their itch at QB or NT (they supposedly love Mayfield and may trade up, and Vea is a possibility too) -- otherwise I think they are the biggest danger with Fitzpatrick. 

 

https://riggosrag.com/2018/04/03/washington-redskins-7-round-mock-draft-early-april-edition/2/

The Redskins are in a very good position with the No. 13 pick right now. Because of the rise of the quarterbacks in this draft, there is a chance that one of the elite prospects falls into their lap. Much like Jonathan Allen last year, there’s a chance that a top defensive player ends up being available. And one of the players who could fall is Minkah Fitzpatrick.

Four quarterbacks are almost certainly going to be in the top 12 picks, and there’s a chance that Lamar Jackson could sneak in as a fifth quarterback if a team trades up. Should that happen, Fitzpatrick could end up being the player who falls. Fitzpatrick is undeniably talented, but there are differing opinions on whether Fitzpatrick or Derwin James is the top defensive back. It’s sounding more like James will be the first hybrid safety off the board, so that could push Fitzpatrick further down.

In addition to James, it’s likely that Saquon Barkley, Quenton Nelson, and Denzel Wardwill be selected in the top 10, so that only leaves a few opportunities for Fitzpatrick to be selected. With the Dolphins and Bills both needing quarterbacks in front of the Redskins, it seems unlikely that either would take Fitzpatrick, unless the Dolphins target a second-round guy like Mason Rudolph and add Fitzpatrick.

 

[Koolblue13]

11 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

@mistertim

 

well one will likely got to 14 with Green Bay and if we are trading back I’m assuming the team trading up wants one of them before GB picks. So doubt we’d trade down and still get one. 

 

That being said, I’ve heard James is more of a SS but one that can also play the Cravens LB type role while Fitz is a pure FS ... Nicholson and Swearinger are both technically FS. so the need is probably at SS with James. Although I’d love either one. 

 

Jamses = coverage SS who can play LB In some aets

 

Fifz = FS or CB 

 

could be wrong on James. I’m using other people’s expertise in those two descriptions and safety seems hardest to diagnose (SS V. FS) 

DJ is a SS. He's good in the box and around the line. His deep cover skills suck and he can't man with a WR or fast TE. 

 

Nicholson is more of a true FS, but he didn't stay healthy and we have nothing else back there.

 

It's a heck of a lot easier to find a decent SS, especially if you have a solid FS to get his back. Look at Seattle. Big aggressive CBs and SS who can roam free, because you had Earl Thomas back there. Troy Polumalu in front of Clarck. Anyone in front of Reed.

 

Think of some of the SSs we've had that looked servicable to good over the years, but nothing behind them and we were routinely exposed.

 

A true, quality FS locking down the back end of your defense allows everyone in front of him to play faster and more aggressively. There is no substitute for it either.

 

I'd take Fitz 10 times out of 10 over James.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

So some fun scenarios that could impact the OBJ situation. I think the Giants hold him until the draft and don't trade him before then if they trade him at all.

 

Browns at #4

Colts at #6

 

Those are two teams that are rumored to be interested in OBJ, or at least make hypothetical matches. Let's say Buffalo trades 12, 22 and either 53 this year or their #1 next year. Cleveland could trade #22 and one of their 3-4 2nd round picks to NY for Odell. OR Buffalo trades with the Colts and gives them 12 and 22 ... the Colts could turn around and trade 22 and one of their 3 2nd round picks to NY for Odell.

 

Also, another team that covets him ... the 49ers ... who probably need him the most but don't have the picks to make it work right now (9 being too high for them to give up, and their 2nd rounder being too low for the Giants) could make something happen. I've been thinking the Browns, if they trade down with the Bills ... would either have 3 1sts and 4 2nds or 3 1sts and 3 2nds (if they take a 1st next year instead of a 2nd this year from Buffalo). I've been thinking if the Browns trade down like that they'll likely trade back up. So the 49ers could trade #9 to Cleveland for #22 and #35. San Francisco then has #22, #35 and a later 2nd rounder. 22 + the later 2nd could get them Odell. Meanwhile, the Browns get back into the Top 10 to take either Tremaine Edmunds or Minkah Fitzpatrick.

 

Of course, the Giants could trade out of #2 ... and throw this whole scenario off haha.