2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

@SkinsinparadiseAbsolutely.  

 

I wasn't quite as down on the Payne pick as you, but I didn’t watch any film on him.  So I was caught between resident expert opinions (who’s opinions I value/respect).  

 

 

Down is all about context though.  I was really down for example after the 2017 free agency season where they "addressed" D line with the McGee and McClain signings.  Then, I didn't feel that they addressed squat.  Drafting Jonathan Allen improved my mood.   

 

They ignored D line in this off season up to the draft.  If I just accepted that this how we roll now in FA with D line -- let teams like the Vikings, Rams and Eagles go get their D lineman before the draft -- then the Payne pick was brilliant.  If we just shop D line in the draft now and do nothing or take fliers in FA at the position -- then Payne was the best D lineman on the board, so take him.     

 

Unlike the McGee-McClain signings, I think Payne will make a good impact.    I don't want to debate people though about Payne so I'll leave my take about it off of this, I spent enough time on it on the other thread and it gets me artificially in a bad mood about the draft even though on the aggregate I am actually in a good mood about it. 

 

Elliot Harrison just did his power rankings.  He knocked us down a spot after the draft to 23.    It doesn't matter of course but for those interested for sheer entertainment value see the link below.  I know NFL Network is running a show on it tonight. 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000930902/article/nfl-power-rankings-giants-climb-after-2018-draft-bills-drop

2 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

 

I'll also note that we didn't draft an EDGE guy, so that probably counts against the idea of letting Preston Smith go.

 

Seems like though behind the scenes a lot of gushing about Ryan Anderson.  So I think he will be a determining factor, will see.  As for corner, its one of those positions that we've been adding for years.  A lot of teams say you can never have enough depth.  Personally, its the one position I worry about though about the defense. 

[Going Commando]

2 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I'll also note that we didn't draft an EDGE guy, so that probably counts against the idea of letting Preston Smith go.

 

This edge class was god awful.  After Landry went, there wasn't any value to be had.  I wouldnt' read into our intentions about any current player based on what we do or don't do in the draft.  We're just picking the players we like who are left in the draft.  Thinking X guy can replace Y vet if we can't afford to keep him in free agency would be a form of putting the cart way the Hell before the horse.

[Thinking Skins]

Just now, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

This edge class was god awful.  After Landry went, there wasn't any value to be had.  I wouldnt' read into our intentions about any current player based on what we do or don't do in the draft.  We're just picking the players we like who are left in the draft.  Thinking X guy can replace Y vet if we can't afford to keep him in free agency would be a form of putting the cart way the Hell before the horse.

 

I had heard that (and funny thing is that as angry as Cooley was about the Payne pick he was saying right before our pick that he wouldn't mind us picking Landry right there. Landry didn't go til 41 and he wants to talk about the Payne pick. Obviously he liked James over them all but I found that funny.

 

That said though, there were guys with potential. I can't say where we had these guys drafted but there were guys with prototypical size (i.e. Preston Smith types) and speed (i.e. the Galette types) and there's the theory that we could have done a Christian or Apke type pick and develop them into talented all around players.

 - Lorenzo Carter

 - Josh Sweat

 - Ade Aruna

 

Those are some guys who were about 250 with about 4.5 40 times. They went in the 3rd 4th and 6th. I'm not saying they'll be world beaters but they give reason to say, had we picked them, "hey, he could see some time at OLB/EDGE".

 

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, Thinking Skins said:

Those are some guys who were about 250 with about 4.5 40 times. They went in the 3rd 4th and 6th. I'm not saying they'll be world beaters but they give reason to say, had we picked them, "hey, he could see some time at OLB/EDGE".

 

I can't speak to Ade Aruna because I didn't evaluate him.  But I would not have taken Sweat or Carter.  Carter went at the beginning of the third, I wouldn't have picked him over Guice.  He's a lanky, thin-framed pass rusher in the way that Leonard Floyd was, I don't think he can get but so strong.  And he's not a very instinctive or skilled pass rusher.  We'll see what the Giants can do with him, but I don't think he was anything special.

 

I didn't care for Sweat at all as a prospect.  No power.  No inside rush whatsoever.  Crappy biomechanics.  Crappy balance.  Poor anchor.  He's an athlete, not a football player.  And to top it off, he's got a history of catastrophic knee injury.  To me he actually characterizes how bad this edge class was.

[Thinking Skins]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Seems like though behind the scenes a lot of gushing about Ryan Anderson.  So I think he will be a determining factor, will see.  As for corner, its one of those positions that we've been adding for years.  A lot of teams say you can never have enough depth.  Personally, its the one position I worry about though about the defense. 

 

Honestly, I feel like certain positions we've been good to really good in terms of developing talent lately. CB is one of those positions (S is not though). OL is another one of those positions. So these kind of places I'm more confident when we don't address them in the draft and just sign a player off the streets to come in. But DL and EDGE has been a weak spot for us in terms of developing talent. Maybe we can point to Murphy as a pro there, or Lanier or Matt I or Baker, but the pickings seem slim, especially in terms of 2D players (run and pass). Thats why I wasn't surprised we didn't pick up a CB til the 7th (as opposed to a S early) and why I was kinda surprised we didn't draft an OLB. Maybe Anderson will make the flip, there's a lot I don't know. And maybe there's a guy like Mike Needham who may impress us.

[HTTRDynasty]

10 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I don't see how anyone could think the Eagles had a good draft.  They picked five guys, four of whom were outside the top 100.  Their picks outside of the TE were an undersized nickel corner who will never be a starter, an edge rusher who can't play the run, can't rush inside, and isn't actually a good pass rusher plus he has a bad knee; a slow offensive lineman who'll eat himself out of the league in a year or two, and a guy who has never played football before.  They're going to end up getting like one guy out of this haul.  If that had been a Redskins class we'd be getting killed for it, and rightfully so.

 

It reminds me of what the 49ers kept doing earlier this decade after they had made the SB.  They took A LOT of risky picks throughout those drafts, e.g., Marcus Lattimore.  It didn't work out for them.  I hope it's the same result for the Eagles.  Howie Roseman and Joe Douglas are much better than Trent Baalke was over that tenure though, unfortunately.

[Koolblue13]

46 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

Not to comment too much on the rest of your post but this is interesting and may signify the future. Notice we drafted Moreau and then let Breeland go, drafted Roullier and let Long (and Louvao) go, drafted Davis and let Pryor go, drafted Anderson and let Murphy go, etc. I had no real thoughs on us keeping Nsheke beyond this year (really this year at all) but Crowder I thought was a lock. Now a 7th round pick doesn't mean much but could it signify that we have some leverage to say "hey in case your numbers are too high, we have your backup on the roster already".

 

I'll also note that we didn't draft an EDGE guy, so that probably counts against the idea of letting Preston Smith go.

Like an adult football do. It's weird. 

[skinny21]

@LLandryistheshizGreat point.  I will say that if Stroman has skinnier legs than Ward... there’s maybe less you can do about that (scrawny legs are scrawny legs, lol).  But I have no idea if that applies here.  

 

I think I’m a little less worried about his legs than just adding some mass to help him mix it up in the run game.  

 

@Thinking Skinsand @Koolblue13Totally.  There seems to be an attempt at succession planning that’s been going on, which is a nice change of pace and smart business.  Not as many desperation moves because of it and you get some time to evaluate these guys before making any decisions - letting a FA walk, signing a replacement FA, or drafting a higher end replacement (which reduces your chances of ‘reaching’).  

 

Doesn’t mean it always works of course, but you gotta try.  I’m with @stevemcqueen1 - I wouldn’t read too much into not taking an edge player, but I do love the forward looking methodology in general.  

 

@SkinsinparadiseHaha, yeah, I wasn’t sure the best way to frame it.  I considered Payne over James/Edmunds as more need based than BPA, but I just wasn’t quite as... vociferous about it.  I know you like Payne.  

 

Also agree about corner.  I feel slightly better having added Stroman (more competition for Holsey/Scandrick), but on paper it looks like our weakest defensive unit.  Safety is a concern for me as well simply due to Nicholson’s injury history, but I do think Apke and Blanding at least up our depth there.  Also hoping for a big leap for Smithson... FS, because I’m not thrilled about the rest of our guys manning that position (yet).  

 

Anyone have thoughts about Apke at FS?  He’s got the speed and size, and I know he needs time to learn, but... there’s a lot more to the position.  

 

Another aside... who covers TEs for us this year (and in the near future)?  Was a problem last year and I’m not sure Swearinger and (particularly) Brown are the answer. I like JHC, but he’s a role player and I need to see him make big strides in coverage before I can see him handling that task.  (I know it’s kind of a stupid question as coverages change)

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

Honestly, I feel like certain positions we've been good to really good in terms of developing talent lately. CB is one of those positions (S is not though). OL is another one of those positions. So these kind of places I'm more confident when we don't address them in the draft and just sign a player off the streets to come in. But DL and EDGE has been a weak spot for us in terms of developing talent. Maybe we can point to Murphy as a pro there, or Lanier or Matt I or Baker, but the pickings seem slim, especially in terms of 2D players (run and pass). Thats why I wasn't surprised we didn't pick up a CB til the 7th (as opposed to a S early) and why I was kinda surprised we didn't draft an OLB. Maybe Anderson will make the flip, there's a lot I don't know. And maybe there's a guy like Mike Needham who may impress us.

 

I got no issue with not forcing a pick so if CB didn't flow into RD 7 then so be it.  Doug said for example the guards they really wanted value wise were gone by the time they picked in the third -- I liked hearing that, stick to the board, BPA. 

 

As for edge rusher, personally I like loading up on the position.  But if Anderson emerges -- to me it seems more in line with their approach to let Preston Smith go.   The rationale I think they might have is you likely get a 3rd round compensation pick and a young emerging pass rusher tends to get big money on the market even if they aren't among the top 10 best -- See Olivier Vernon.   So if they don't think Preston warrants 12 million a year or whatever he gets, I bet they let him go.  But maybe i am wrong, will see.  I like Preston Smith.  And personally, I think his ceiling is higher than Ryan Anderson.

 

As for safety, I like our starters.  We can definitely use depth though.  As for CB, I think the Scandrick FA signing is the secondary equivalent of the McClain signing last year.  I think he's just a guy or worse than that.  3 years ago, I'd have liked it.  Holsey is a complete wild card.    I am afraid the slot receivers from our division in particular (Beasley, Agholor, Shepard) might destroy us in between the numbers -- that's how it used to be pre the 2017 version of Fuller. 

 

I don't mind taking a chance with R-CB but both R-CB and slot?  Not saying it won't work, got no clue, but it seems like a wild card at 2 of the three CB positions.  That's my long winded way of saying I'd love Cromartie. 

[Going Commando]

Corner is thin, but we have talent at the spot.  I think we'll be alright this year.

[OVCChairman]

1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Corner is thin, but we have talent at the spot.  I think we'll be alright this year.

 

This position has my interest the most.  I think we will be alright, but if it goes bad... it could go very bad.  CB and LG are the 2 positions I feel we still need to address.  

[skinny21]

3 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Corner is thin, but we have talent at the spot.  I think we'll be alright this year.

I’m with you in regards to our outside corners, but the slot?  I don’t know.  The saving grace is the flashes we heard about/saw from Holsey and having Gray as the positional coach.  That last one can’t be overstated, IMO.  

[Going Commando]

37 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

This position has my interest the most.  I think we will be alright, but if it goes bad... it could go very bad.  CB and LG are the 2 positions I feel we still need to address.  

 

True.  If Norman gets hurt again, we'll be in trouble.  The other corners get bumped up to a role they probably can't handle without him on the field.

[Skinsinparadise]

I just read Espn insider quoting executives about other teams drafts.  Nothing much to note about the Redskins.  Only interesting thing to me was they said they would have taken Edmonds over Payne and part of that was because they thought he's the kind of athlete built to stop Elliot and Barkley.  They didn't elaborate as to why, I'd presume its in part because Barkley is often more of an outside versus inside runner and is dangerous with the ball in open space. 

 

They think highly of Jay as an evaluator and said he gives us a chance.

 

For fun I was perusing some of the early 2019 mocks.  All 4 that I found have us picking in the top 10 next year, Matt Miller has us at #5.

 

Greedy Williams, CB, LSU

Deandre Baker, CB, Georgia (in 2 mocks)

AJ Brown, WR, Old Miss.

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

For fun I was perusing some of the early 2019 mocks.  All 4 that I found have us picking in the top 10 next year, Matt Miller has us at #5

 

What Matt Miller did seems about as reasonable as you can get it.  He set the order based off of the Vegas odds.  Of course we'll disagree, but at least it's impartial.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

What Matt Miller did seems about as reasonable as you can get it.  He set the order based off of the Vegas odds.  Of course we'll disagree, but at least it's impartial.

 

Some of it might be based on what he thinks of this FO.  I listen to his podcasts and he did one with the theme of the Redskins have the worst FO in the NFL.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I just read Espn insider quoting executives about other teams drafts.  Nothing much to note about the Redskins.  Only interesting thing to me was they said they have taken Edmonds over Payne and part of that was because they thought he's the kind of athlete built to stop Elliot and Barkley.  They didn't elaborate as to why, I'd presume its in part because Barkley is often more of an outside versus inside runner and is dangerous with the the ball in open space.

 

Yeah, this has been a very boring post-draft for us.  Not much to read, or watch, or analyze.  No comments to dissect.  I can't find any film on Trey Quinn or Troy Apke.  We already know how Settle and Geron Christian will be used.  Shaun Dion Hamilton might be on PUP.  So no conjecture there.  The other corner in the 7th can supposedly only play Nickel in passing situations.  From what I've read it sounds like he'll really have to compete to make the team.

 

I guess that's what happens when you go with a solid conservative and unsexy pick in the 1st.  There was some intrigue with how Guice had fallen, but that's blown over.

 

We're projected to have two impact players (Guice and Payne) in the draft.  That's good news if true.  The others dealt with needed depth and development guys who are projected to move up the depth chart and play more when contracts run out for guys ahead of them (Nsekhe and Crowder).

 

If there was film of Troy Apke, then we could start having some meaningful discussion.  Highlights are always misleading, but he played a fair amount of Nickel in those highlights.  Maybe, he's not just safety depth but also a general "DB"?  Who knows though, because there's nothing to watch.

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Some of it might be based on what he thinks of this FO.  I listen to his podcasts and he did one with the theme of the Redskins have the worst FO in the NFL.

 

Well that then, I just flat out disagree with.  I understand the criticism of Bruce Allen, he does a really good job being a punching bag for the organization.  Even if firing McCloughan was the right thing to do (no idea), the way in which it was done was not tactful.

 

Besides that, I love that we're copying the Patriots model for the organization.  Everything is promote from within.  If we're healthy (tall order), or at least healthier, I think we have the potential to turn some heads this season and make guys rethink what they know of the team.

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

There was some intrigue with how Guice had fallen, but that's blown over.

 

 

I think the Guice stuff might still brew a little bit longer but love the pick.  I among others posted about him last fall and kept at it.  Should be fun to see how it plays out.

 

Next I guess is the rookie minicamp.  fun to hear about and often we get some fun narratives that don't always play out.  I recall last year it was Perine was unstoppable in minicamp.  

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think the Guice stuff might still brew a little bit longer but love the pick.  I among others posted about him last fall and kept at it.  Should be fun to see how it plays out.

 

Next I guess is the rookie minicamp.  fun to hear about and often we get some fun narratives that don't always play out.  I recall last year it was Perine was unstoppable in minicamp.  

 

I seem to recall him having quicker feet or looking more natural or whatever.  Also some UDFA OL and DL who "impressed", but wound up being invisible come normal training camp.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I seem to recall him having quicker feet or looking more natural or whatever.  Also some UDFA OL and DL who "impressed", but wound up being invisible come normal training camp.

 

Yeah, LOL, the undrafted free agent minicamp stars that's a given.  Though I like the UDFA class this year a lot.  So I'll probably be one of those people sucked into the hype.  And heck some of it typically does tend to pan out in the end but some doesn't pan out. 

[skinny21]

@Alcoholic ZebraFYI, I discovered that you can watch a couple cutups of Apke if you watch Marcus Allen (the other Penn St safety) at draftbreakdown. 

 

Not afraid to stick his nose in there, came off most blocks, stayed deep (didn’t get sucked up), decent tackler.  Didn’t have much impact, seemed to slow down often moving to the ball carrier (assumed his guys would get him down), would often man the middle but not really move to the routes (recognition/experience).  

[Anselmheifer]

I was just looking at 10 yard splits and found a few interesting. Ryan Anderson 1.71. Da'Ron Payne 1.67. Aaron Donald 1.63. Maurice Hurst 1.73. Jonathan Allen 1.73. All were courtesy of NFL draft scout. 

I still think we made big mistake passing on Maurice Hurst. He is a disruptive penetrator and is excellent in this regard, against both the run and pass. He brings something largely different from what we have on DL. At a minimum, I think he would have been better than Troy Apke. I wish we had gone back up for him at the beginning of the 5th round. 

[skinny21]

In the very little bit I watched of him, that was the one thing that stood out to me regarding Payne - his first step/explosion off the line is unreal.  

[Going Commando]

34 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I still think we made big mistake passing on Maurice Hurst. He is a disruptive penetrator and is excellent in this regard, against both the run and pass. He brings something largely different from what we have on DL. At a minimum, I think he would have been better than Troy Apke. I wish we had gone back up for him at the beginning of the 5th round. 

 

We don't really know the nature of his heart condition though.  Except that it was serious enough for him to fall out of the first round and get sent home from the combine.  For all we know, he could never play football again.

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

If there was film of Troy Apke, then we could start having some meaningful discussion.  Highlights are always misleading, but he played a fair amount of Nickel in those highlights.  Maybe, he's not just safety depth but also a general "DB"?  Who knows though, because there's nothing to watch.

 

 

Doug Williams said in his presser that they think (hope) Apke can be that 3rd safety and special teams guy.  I'm guessing they hope he can jump Everrett has the 3rd safety in 3 safety packages and maybe be the backup to DJ & Monte if either go down.  High hopes it sounds like.