visionary Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoneMessedUp Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Someone call Jomboy. We need a breakdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 8 hours ago, Renegade7 said: I mean, who does though in any election? Support is different then pulling the lever in the general, I held my nose for Hillary like "I was supposed to". And I'll do it again because this is about authoritarianism more then anything else at this point. If Dems lose to the worst candidate imaginable in two elections in a row, it wont be as simple as one thing to blame except themselves. The party allowed someone who isnt a Democrat to run as a Democrat to get people to pay attention that normally wouldnt then complain when they dont vote Democrat if the eventual nominee keeps saying Bernie isnt a Democrat? That's like saying a non Democrat should be to blame for non Democrats not voting Democrat. DNC cant have its cake and eat it too on this one. https://www.npr.org/2017/04/22/525089501/sanders-unity-tour-with-dnc-chair-exposes-rifts-but-also-suggests-common-goals Maybe I will be proven wrong but I doubt it. Nominee Biden He will have the older black vote and the older Dem vote in general. How much of the younger progressive vote will he actually get, especially the Sanders voter? I don't see the Sanders voter voting for Joe in large numbers; if it all. Biden won't be inspiring the younger progressive voters. Will they really be motivated vote, either in the early voting days or on election day? I don't think Joe will be get the numbers he will need to win the votes in the states he needs to win the electoral college. Dems needs histortic turnout to beat Trump. You aren't getting it from Bernie. Nominee Sanders He will excite progressives. The young voters will come out in droves. Will it be historic numbers? Hmmm. Thing is, he will scare away the older voters with his positions; so Bernie probably won't be winning those states in the electoral college he needs. Nominee Warren She has the same problem Bernie does, her views will scare off older voters. Though she does seem to be moderating a little bit; saying it won't happen right away. Still, I don't think she can win those key states in the electoral college. Nominee Buttigieg He only appeals to a certain type of Dem voter. If he somehow got the nomination, I doubt he will get the support of the black vote in the amounts that would give him wins in the key states. Nominee Bloomberg Only way he gets the nomination is if he wins enough delegates to force a contested convention. If he gets it, there will be huge amount of Dem voters that will be pissed. They will not vote for him. Basically, I am saying; I don't see the Dems nominating a candidate that can unite the entire party and be enthused to vote for the nominee and get enough votes to win the electoral college. Maybe I am will be wrong but I don't think I will. Trump will not be easy beat; especially if the economy is relatively strong on election day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 38 minutes ago, Destino said: So when does CNN come out and endorse Warren? This debate was a dud. Absolute garbage and the worst by far. CNN should be embarrassed by what they put together here. I was driving home, so listened to most of the debate in my car. Horrible. Honestly, we don't need anymore debates. They are mostly rehashing the same **** over and over. Most of the commentators say Lizzie won. I thought she did okay but I'll liked Amy and Pete better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 https://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnns-van-jones-buries-2020-field-after-debate-nothing-i-saw-tonight-would-be-able-to-take-donald-trump-out/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 I feel like these debates are spending too much time focused on the details of imaginary laws that might fix them if they miraculously came back from congress unchanged. It's not enough to list the problems, recommended solutions, and estimated costs. That's what I want to hear from a contractor when considering a bathroom renovation, it's not how I want to choose a candidate for President. I need more patriotism, optimism, and vision. I need a candidate that feels worthy of leading this country, not one that's merely interested in fixing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 The concern being why you lying Bernie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forehead Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Well, I thought Klobuchar had another very good debate other than that one enormous flub where she forgot the name. And honestly, that wouldn't have even been so bad if she hadn't begun with "My good friend." That made it worse. Otherwise, I thought she made the same case she always does, but she can't seem to get about 6%-8% anywhere. Zero interest in Bernie Sanders. Biden seems lost half the time. I like Mayor Pete but he'll get zero support from the South. Steyer was irrelevant. I guess if Amy can't get any traction in the Iowa caucus I might take a harder look at Warren since she's ceding the far, far left to Bernie and trying to moderate herself slightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Savage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 I decided that sleep was more important. Looks like Warren is the one now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 11 minutes ago, Springfield said: I decided that sleep was more important. Looks like Warren is the one now? I hope so. Shes got my vote if she's still in the race on Super Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoneMessedUp Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Yup. Berniebros are having an absolute conniption fit today. CNN canceled and Warren unpersoned. So ****ing toxic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 I don’t think Warren can win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Oh no emoji snakes. BernieBros will stop at nothing! What the left wing, both Bernie and Warren supporters, have been saying only about *ahem* “Mayo” Pete and Biden is a great deal worse than emoji snakes. Kamala Harris was dismissed online as a “cop” that couldn’t be trusted, before the very same group angrily opined that her absence was somehow because racism too. Bernie’s supporters are right to be mad at what went down on CNN, and I say this as someone that is decidedly not a Bernie supporter. He got ambushed repeatedly last night with loaded questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 14 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said: Basically, I am saying; I don't see the Dems nominating a candidate that can unite the entire party and be enthused to vote for the nominee and get enough votes to win the electoral college. Maybe I am will be wrong but I don't think I will. Trump will not be easy beat; especially if the economy is relatively strong on election day. This is such a different conversation, who wins the nomination and who wins the general election. So many states Trump won just barely on the assumption he would lose anyway. The nomination process is where you get to pick who you want to be president, the general is about picking the option that isnt Trump. I'm not buying that by the time November comes around that the conversation will be dominated by candidate X not inspiring enough or having inconsistent plans, this general election about authoritarianism vs non-authoritarianism. I'm not buying that these elections since 2018 midterm are not referendum votes when now Kansas and Kentucky have Democrats as governors now. I dont care if the nominee can unite the party because the GOP isnt a party anymore, it's a cult. November wont be R vs D, it'll cult vs not-cult. Hopefully the next election is not like that, but this one is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 If the prospect of Trump in office for 4 more years isn't enough to unite Dems that is a pretty sad commentary, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 52 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I dont care if the nominee can unite the party because the GOP isnt a party anymore, it's a cult. November wont be R vs D, it'll cult vs not-cult. Hopefully the next election is not like that, but this one is. I think you are right, but maybe a bit optimistic. I think it will be Trump's cult vs. not-cult but excluding Bernie's cult (who may end up voting for Trump out of pettiness). So, two cults v. not-cult. 48 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: If the prospect of Trump in office for 4 more years isn't enough to unite Dems that is a pretty sad commentary, Bernie's people are not Dems, same as Bernie. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 1 hour ago, NoCalMike said: If the prospect of Trump in office for 4 more years isn't enough to unite Dems that is a pretty sad commentary, I agree. Trump should be enough to unify democrats. The problem is that it won’t be enough. It’s going to take more than the dems base to knock out an incumbent with a great economy. Those undecided moderates, the working class, and high turnout in swing states will all factor in. Whoever is chosen, has their work cut out for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 48 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: I think you are right, but maybe a bit optimistic. I think it will be Trump's cult vs. not-cult but excluding Bernie's cult (who may end up voting for Trump out of pettiness). So, two cults v. not-cult. Bernie's people are not Dems, same as Bernie. . I can see where you going with this. I'd say based on what I've read that the number of Bernie followers that didnt vote at all in 2016 because Hillary got the nomination was very real, but a much larger number then those that voted for Trump. The later being a real yet minority vote I wouldnt classify as Bernie Bros, those are anarchists, imo, that want this thing ripped to shreds and dont care who does it as long as it's done. The ideologies are so far part from each the only thing they have in common is wanting to flip the table upside down with stuff still on top of it. I still maintain a lot of that was on the assumption Trump couldnt win, now we know he can. I could be wrong, but when I step back and think about it, a Bernie Bro voting for Trump isnt a protest vote, that's ideological suicide or didnt have one in the first place outside of maybe frustration and chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 42 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I can see where you going with this. I'd say based on what I've read that the number of Bernie followers that didnt vote at all in 2016 because Hillary got the nomination was very real, but a much larger number then those that voted for Trump. The later being a real yet minority vote I wouldnt classify as Bernie Bros, those are anarchists, imo, that want this thing ripped to shreds and dont care who does it as long as it's done. The ideologies are so far part from each the only thing they have in common is wanting to flip the table upside down with stuff still on top of it. I still maintain a lot of that was on the assumption Trump couldnt win, now we know he can. I could be wrong, but when I step back and think about it, a Bernie Bro voting for Trump isnt a protest vote, that's ideological suicide or didnt have one in the first place outside of maybe frustration and chaos. Yea, I certainly think there is a spectrum, as I posted yesterday, ranging from "like Bernie the most but will vote for the eventual nominee" to, as you put it, anarchists. I think that a significant portion of that spectrum will vote for Trump for one of two reasons (1) they didn't get their way and they will spite-vote for Trump out of pettiness or (2) they think another four years of Trump burning the country down will make it more likely that someone that holds Bernie's views will ultimately get elected. I hope it's a smaller number of people than I suspect it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Destino said: I agree. Trump should be enough to unify democrats. The problem is that it won’t be enough. It’s going to take more than the dems base to knock out an incumbent with a great economy. Those undecided moderates, the working class, and high turnout in swing states will all factor in. Whoever is chosen, has their work cut out for them. Is the economy really "great?" I agree that it is a "good enough for an incumbent to win re-election" economy, but what categorizes this economy as great? Is it markedly stronger than Obama's was in 2012 (yes, I knew we were coming out of a bad recession a couple years earlier)? I ask this question as a conservative who historically has voted GOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Our economy is ready for a recession or depression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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