nonniey Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, PleaseBlitz said: Joe Biden is not Barack. I like Biden and all, but he’s not that level. He probably doesn't need to be at Obama's level for getting out the vote to win (and besides he probably would be a better President than his old running mate - there are more important aspects than being good at getting out the vote to consider imo). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I was phrasing it as a hypothetical, binary choice. More qualified man or less qualified women. It is way too early to say which gender candidate will be more qualified or as qualified when compared to the other. I'm talking about people saying there must be a certain gender or whatever on the ticket. Why not just decide who is best based on what they believe and what they propose? Maybe I just admire Lady Justice too much. I dont race or gender to be used as a qualifier, I don't think anyone does. I also don't think anyone wants to see us go back to only electing white males again. Quote @Renegade7 Your response popped up while I was typing the above. I really like it while I don't necessary agree with it all. I started typing out a response but realized it was more about prejudice tenancies than the 2020 election. I'm not sure this is the place for it. I'm happy to discuss but want to make sure it is in the right place. But because I just can't shut up I will respond to a few spots. Thanks, I enjoy these convos even if we don't agree all the time, we seem to find either an understanding or middle ground most times, its worth it. Quote It is exactly what he meant. It is what he dreamed of. That doesn't mean it would happen but it is what he wanted. And aiming for that will make you better even if you don't hit it. An officer told me a quote a long time ago I still carry with me; (paraphrasing)"You will never achieve perfection but if you aim for it, you may just achieve greatness." I was pointing out you were using his quote in the wrong context. MLK didnt mean for his dream to be confused for not wanting his kids to be nominated for office just because they were black. It wasn't that his dream was that race wouldn't be used as an advantage, it was that race wouldnt be used as a disadvantage. He wanted his kids to have a chance for their character to matter more, for that to be looked at first before anything else. He did want us to shoot for a post-racial world, same way we should shoot to elimanate all forms of cancer and poverty and achieve world peace. But he was also realistic and huge supporter of affirmative action. He felt it was necessary in world were race is t going anywhere anytime soon. I wish he was still here, hed probably say something similar to Obama in wanting new blood and supporting his approach to the cabinet he created. One of the bigger problems we have right now is people believing we shouldn't have a women president for reasons that have nothing to do with her qualifications, I know women that feel this way. Only way to change that is for one to get elected and to show that's not true. We have to show it doesn't matter so its normal, same with first gay president same with first Muslim president. I'm not saying you are saying this, but some people bring up picking the most qualified person to meaning picking the safest person politically. I think the you try is done with picking safe candidates, we just followed our first black president with a TV star. Quote Then that doesn't make them the most qualified. An Ivy League education and government experience doesn't make you the most qualified. You are right, but a lot of people believe that in their highering process and elections. In the digital age where anyone can get caught up on our publicly available information and put a platform behind it, what does "qualified for office" even mean anymore? I said I didn't want to vote for another candidate who didn't have prior political office experience to be President. I didn't say I wouldn't. Quote The people gave us Trump. And a recent GOP majority. Just something to think about. Fair point, but Constitution gave us Trump, he lost the popular vote. I also wouldn't go so far as to say gerrymandering allowed for fair representation of the populace, im waiting to see if theres another influx of minorities and women in 2019 to see if this is a trend or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, nonniey said: He probably doesn't need to be at Obama's level for getting out the vote to win (and besides he probably would be a better President than his old running mate - there are more important aspects than being good at getting out the vote to consider imo). Im saying that Biden isnt a tier above everyone else. And i dont think Biden would probably be better than Obama. Like, how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 How Democrats could blow it in 2020 MoveOn: 2020 Democratic nominee must be unapologetically progressive The Democrats Need a Brutal Primary to Beat Trump Will it be a black woman who turfs Trump out of the White House? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 3 hours ago, skinfan2k said: Biden is right. He is the only one to bring out the obamastar power and voting. Young people dont give a damn about Bernie or Warren. Young people care more about Bernie than Biden imo. But I don’t tbink young people will be motivated to vote for a 70yr old boring white man which is what they both are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Highly encourage folks to re-watch Biden’s 2016 DNC speech as a preview of his general election demeanor toward Trump. Would I prefer someone younger and fresh? Sure. Would I be disappointed if Biden is the nominee? Absolutely not. He’s tough as nails and comes off as genuine, not calculated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 The Dems will need a candidate that can go toe to toe with Trump. Not as far as being vulgar & nasty, but someone who is not going to be flustered and baited by him on the national stage. You aren't going to be beat Trump by debating policy. We already know Trump doesn't care about policy, he is willing to stand up there in front of any audience at any time and just outright embellish and lie. Whoever is across the stage from him will need to be quick on their feet and be able to snap back with quickness and preciseness. Sanders & Warren I feel would be good candidates against more conventional GOP canidates, but they will come off as old, slow, & boring across the stage from Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 13 hours ago, justice98 said: This has been my thought since Trump won. There simply is nobody who I have confidence in at the top of the ticket other than Biden. Not one. Biden's quote was right, I dont see a person either I feel good about. Yes, the Dem needs to get younger, yada, yada, but 2020 is about winning, getting Trump out, and restoring some order. You HAVE to win. Biden is the guy. Now, he absolutely would have to pick a younger, charismatic successor to be groomed. No Tim Kaine types. So I think Biden/Beto is the move. Trump cant beat that. If they try to pull some no-name out of thin air and try to prop them up, that's gonna fail. My scenario is Biden/Beto in 2020. Maybe even with the understanding that Biden might not run in 2024. The cabinet makes itself. Kamala Harris as Attorney General. Sec of Def and State candidates will be coming out of the woodwork with an adult in the room. I don't know Uncle Joe is the guy but nominee absolutely must be the one that can beat Trump. That should be the #1 focus of the dem primary voter. Who can actually beat Trump? It's better to have some that can beat Trump, while you may not agree with them on everything. Than it is to vote with someone who you agree with 100% but that candidate gets crushed in the fall. Running against Trump isn't a normal election. The stakes are much higher. Trump gets reelected, it's probably the end of the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 A big factor going into 2020 is how many of the fence riders will have learned by then that Trump really has no idea what he is talking about 90% of the time. His base doesn't seem to care, they will just eat up whatever BS Trump shovels their way. The plan should be to go after the voters who have Trump regret. The voters who voted (R) for the first time in a long time (maybe ever) merely because they bought into the "Hillary is evil" narrative. The ones who gave Trump the benefit of the doubt that despite all his misgivings, might have actually been running in order to "shake up Washington" if that block of voters are still unconvinced the man is a buffoon? Dems could be in trouble. As of right now I could easily see Trump losing the popular vote by a wider margin then in 2016, but still being re-elected due to the electoral collage map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCB Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Whoever the nominee ends up being, instead of scribbling during Trump’s part of the debates they should mug for the camera by counting lies he spews by hand. Good TV and would drive him nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 3 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said: Im saying that Biden isnt a tier above everyone else. And i dont think Biden would probably be better than Obama. Like, how? God you must have low expectations of anyone running for President. At this point I'd like to have an even moderately successful President (it will be 20 years since we did by the next inauguration). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Ok, as usual my POV is not in line with a lot that I see/hear, go figure.......never stopped me before so.... I don't agree with a lot of the common knowledge being spewed at this point. A long drawn out primary with a crowded field should be a good thing insofar as America will get to actually see and experience the diverse range of opinion and outlook within the Democratic party. It is far too early to try and dictate the narrative about who is or isn't charismatic or likable enough...... in itself a somewhat shallow take on the process meant to elect a president and not an American Idol competition. Touting Biden as the only one that can beat Trump misses the larger point of should the Dems be fixed, focused and fascinated by that and that alone? I know I'd disagree. There are some exceptional candidates being mentioned in the conversation, not just A woman but multiple women with a range of views and very solid resumes that allows the discussion to be more than simply gender based- pro or con. Just surrendering to the concept that you better put an old white guy on the ticket to compete is facile. Who in their right mind honestly wants to just set the clocks back to where we were a decade ago? Personally I am looking for candidates that can convey a vision of how we move forward and where we want to go with it. I'd echo TGB's comment "You will never achieve perfection but if you aim for it, you may just achieve greatness." Give me someone that reaches beyond their grasp, that aspires to something beyond the easily obtainable. We are America, with all our faults and flaws we are still a goddam potent and powerful collection of people and resources and what we need more than anything is to rediscover our purpose and vision of ourselves. Voting for a woman simply because she is a woman is the flip side of NOT voting for a woman because she is one, simplistic single issue tests like that never pass the smell test. Expect more, demand more, be more to make your voice and choice more meaningful. Grow the **** up, act like adults even if it is an act, let it go with '16 or Bernie or any of it, look forward instead of backwards. Things really have changed in the last two years, there is a ridiculously deep strain coalescing in politics based around women and their increasing energy and power, ignoring/denying/belittling that is a recipe for a high heel shoe in your ass. At the same time with great power comes great responsibility, women need to do well here for their own sakes, this is a fairly narrow window of opportunity and history could slam it shut for another century if they bungle it badly. Do not let your enemies decide on your actions or strategies, ignoring all the inherent advantages in the diversity of the Democratic party (diversity of FAR more than simply race or gender) in order to try and pander to some supposed critical Trumpy demographic is a recipe for disaster. Get out there and actually DO positive things instead of just great sounding speeches and people will follow. You don't only play when you are guaranteed a win, you play for the sake of genuine beliefs and ideals and if you don't have any, maybe you should get the **** outta the way and let someone else have the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 ^^^ This is a great post. I'm willing to see who shakes out from the primary season. I admit my thinking is evolving as I mentally review 2018 elections and it's way too early now to speculate about who the Democrats will end up nominating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 9 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: Young people care more about Bernie than Biden imo. But I don’t tbink young people will be motivated to vote for a 70yr old boring white man which is what they both are. Biden may be old and white but I wouldn't classify him as boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 7 hours ago, nonniey said: God you must have low expectations of anyone running for President. At this point I'd like to have an even moderately successful President (it will be 20 years since we did by the next inauguration). I don't understand this post at all. I think there are at least 8 people that will probably run that will make excellent Presidents, and I think that Barack was an excellent one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 10 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: Young people care more about Bernie than Biden imo. But I don’t tbink young people will be motivated to vote for a 70yr old boring white man which is what they both are. Only because Bernie was in the last election throwing his ideas around. Biden was invisible. Let's see what happens when that changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 The problem with Biden is I don't think there is any enthusiasm for him outside of the "He can out-Trump Trump on stage" factor. That isn't really enough. He still represents the Democratic party of old. The election isn't going to be won or lost by two old guys on a stage barking at each other. That will offer some prime time laughs, but it will fade and it will become which candidate can capture hearts & minds when they aren't on camera. Not sure Biden is going to inspire many people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 There's a classic "How we wish things were" vs "how things actually are" in presidential politics going on. I appreciate the idealism, but it's like having an open competition at QB with a draft pick, journeymen, and UDFAs and hoping for the best. Dont expect to win many games. 3 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: The problem with Biden is I don't think there is any enthusiasm for him outside of the "He can out-Trump Trump on stage" factor. That isn't really enough. He still represents the Democratic party of old. The election isn't going to be won or lost by two old guys on a stage barking at each other. That will offer some prime time laughs, but it will fade and it will become which candidate can capture hearts & minds when they aren't on camera. Not sure Biden is going to inspire many people. That's why he would need a younger running mate to fill in the gaps. It's basically a reverse Obama. He didnt pick a person just like him, he picked somebody completely different. An older veteran to bridge and cover for his deficiencies. And it worked. Obama brought his people, Biden brought his people, got 2 terms out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 6 hours ago, LD0506 said: A long drawn out primary with a crowded field should be a good thing insofar as America will get to actually see and experience the diverse range of opinion and outlook within the Democratic party. You're equating the American public with the Democratic party here. Does the Democratic party want America to see a diverse range of ideas? I doubt it. Nor do they want a tough primary. They want all the money to go to one candidate. They could always prove me wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Mooka said: You're equating the American public with the Democratic party here. Does the Democratic party want America to see a diverse range of ideas? I doubt it. Nor do they want a tough primary. They want all the money to go to one candidate. They could always prove me wrong though. I think you may be right the Dems probably don't want to repeat what the Republicans did in 2016, but as what happened with the Republicans the problem may develop of getting in of each others way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 3 hours ago, NoCalMike said: The problem with Biden is I don't think there is any enthusiasm for him outside of the "He can out-Trump Trump on stage" factor. That isn't really enough. He still represents the Democratic party of old. The election isn't going to be won or lost by two old guys on a stage barking at each other. That will offer some prime time laughs, but it will fade and it will become which candidate can capture hearts & minds when they aren't on camera. Not sure Biden is going to inspire many people. Weird. Right? He's get up there, smile, and look like a real person compared to what we have now. But all the other stuff you said is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 20 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said: Weird. Right? He's get up there, smile, and look like a real person compared to what we have now. But all the other stuff you said is true. Right and don't get me wrong, I believe Biden would wipe the floor with him in a debate, but so did Hillary (at least in terms of sounding competent on the actual issues) if you came away from the 2016 debates feeling Trump had any actual grasp of the issues, especially foreign policy? Not sure what to tell you. However 2016 also showed that the debates are a moment frozen in time during the long campaign season. Any performance during the debate can be forgotten about pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 43 minutes ago, nonniey said: I think you may be right the Dems probably don't want to repeat what the Republicans did in 2016, .... Win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 29 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: Win? Nominating the worst candidate because the other 15-17 candidates split up the support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Run Bernie Run! Says Bernie Sanders. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rubycramer/bernie-sanders-draft-president-2020-primary Quote Our Revolution, the political group Bernie Sanders founded after his bid for the Democratic nomination, will start a campaign to draft the Vermont senator into the 2020 presidential race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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