nonniey Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Biden is the least appealing candidate in the field to me. I don't want him on any ticket. Well, the more he is pulled left the less his chances are of getting on a ticket. IMO the reason he is leading now is he is the only (significant) moderate and only sane choice in the field and despite the noise most democrats are moderate. If he loses that perception then it will open the door to the far left candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 53 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: The biggest thing I need people to understand is that its June and we haven't had the first debates yet. Totally agree. Plus, the first debates aren't going to provide much clarity either. They are a total of 4 hours over two days for 20 candidates. Factoring in commercials, that leaves each candidate about 9 minutes each to say things, and inevitably some will want to use those 9 minutes to talk about things that have nothing to do with the question asked, so things are going to be awkward and weird. Plus, odds are that the moderators will ask about Trump with every questions, and every candidate agrees that he sucks, so there won't be any space between them. Edit: I'll still probably watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Biden wins nomination, picks Warren as his VP. Wins in 2020, resigns immediately after he is sworn in. Warren sworn in as POTUS. One can hope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 22 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: ..... Julian Castro (wait is he still running)? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: Biden wins nomination, picks Warren as his VP. Wins in 2020, resigns immediately after he is sworn in. Warren sworn in as POTUS. One can hope? Or we can hope that a progressive with some actual principles wins it. One of the biggest delusions that Democrats like Biden have is that winning an election means you've won, period. Democrats have won four presidential elections in the past 30 years and have also spent that entire time getting destroyed by Republicans. If trotting out a bunch of shook, unprincipled centrists to lead the party is the best that Democrats can come up with, then they are a lot closer to losing millennial support than they imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: Biden wins nomination, picks Warren as his VP. Wins in 2020, resigns immediately after he is sworn in. Warren sworn in as POTUS. One can hope? VP is a historically powerless role filed with just showing up to events. I'd prefer Warren be chief economic adviser or Director of the National Economic Council where she can have the most impact. I'd like to see Kamala Harris as AG too, not veep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Or we can hope that a progressive with some actual principles wins it. I hope for it every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Cooked Crack said: Somehow I bet that Beto is not capable of eliminating anti-LGBT* violence. But the effort ought to count. * Can we possibly come up with some kind of all-encompassing label other than an ever-growing acronym, and you'd better not leave any letters out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 From my understanding Larry, that's what the + does after LGBTQ. It makes it all encompassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 1 hour ago, PleaseBlitz said: Biden right now is running a campaign that seems to me like he is assuming he's going to win the Dem nomination and is setting himself to win "the middle" and the midwest states that went to Trump in 2016 (Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin) in the general election. I certainly take issue with some of Biden's positions on discrete issues, and his insistence that Republicans will work with him in good faith is borderline delusional, but as a pure political strategy, it's solid. The left to far-left vote is going to get split among 4-5 candidates, Biden is running in that moderate lane by himself. Well, I suspect that a part of it is a desire to appeal to moderates. But I'd assume that a bigger part of it is that any time any politician comes out with any specific plan, they invite people to attack the details of the plan. And some voters will be opposed to the plan, once they see details. Politicians try very hard to speak about themselves in carefully-worded generalities, and to hang specific policies on their opponents. And I assume he's trying to appeal to people who are sick of polarizing politics. (Of which, there is a huge abundance. Including, no doubt, most of the people in here.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Larry said: Well, I suspect that a part of it is a desire to appeal to moderates. But I'd assume that a bigger part of it is that any time any politician comes out with any specific plan, they invite people to attack the details of the plan. And some voters will be opposed to the plan, once they see details. Politicians try very hard to speak about themselves in carefully-worded generalities, and to hang specific policies on their opponents. And I assume he's trying to appeal to people who are sick of polarizing politics. (Of which, there is a huge abundance. Including, no doubt, most of the people in here.) I think that's exactly what it is. Most people underestimate the size of the "moderate" wing of the Democratic Party because they don't make a ton of newsworthy noise and aren't constantly in Twitter fights. But it's still the majority of the party. So it seems to me that Joe's plan is to appeal to that part of the party, which will allow him to appeal to moderates Dems and other voters that went to Trump in 2016 but don't like him now that they've seen him in action. This is an especially smart strategy for the general election because of the electoral college system (e.g., the Dem nominee is going to get all of California and NY's delegates, period, so they need to focus on winning more moderate voters in PA, WI, and MI). This strategy's viability hinges on an assumption that the left wing of the party will vote against Trump no matter what. I think that's a decent assumption, but not ironclad. The weakness is that it seems like the left to far left faction is starting to not just prefer others over Biden, they are being convinced that they should hate Biden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 The problem with Biden is that its 2019 and a lot of people see through what he is doing. Look at how he flip-flopped on the Hyde Amendment stuff. Did he really flip flop after nearly 40 years from when he supported it or is he trying to get in line with the current Dem party and appeal to people? Or the environmental policy he put out after saying there is a middle ground we can reach? He said there was a middle ground and then plagiarized - not the first time he has done that - bits and pieces from policy groups. I keep saying it, dude stands for nothing and will be out of here really early. He would have been a better candidate in 1988 when Reagan was king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 TBH, I don't remember people having a problem with Tim Kaine changing his (political) opinion on abortion in 2016 when/before being selected as HRCs running mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 4 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Biden is the least appealing candidate in the field to me. I don't want him on any ticket. Agreed. I mean, I'd vote for him, because anyone over Trump at this point, but he's just so...bleh. And I reckon most of the country feels the same way. Voter turnout would be ridiculously low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 26 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: TBH, I don't remember people having a problem with Tim Kaine changing his (political) opinion on abortion in 2016 when/before being selected as HRCs running mate. Tim Kaine changed his stance twice within 48 hours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 This idea that in 2018/19/20 out of nowhere the party just "ran to the left" is absurd. Most of what the left has been fighting for over the last 20 years is based on reversing the bad effects of Reagan's economic polices (which have been continued and enhanced under GOP President's since). That isn't "running to the left" Now granted, on social issues there has been a leftward shift, but on a lot of those issues the country itself has moved, and the Democrats (some of them) are the only ones willing to embrace it. It isn't an accident that Reagan's economic policies were referred to as "The Reagan revolution" because he ushered in these new ideas of slashing taxes on the wealthy being great for the lower & middle class. No surprise that is where the shrinking of the middle class started after almost 50 years of it expanding. The fact that the GOP has gotten away with pushing the narrative that wanting to go back to pre-Reagan policies is some kind of "extreme left position" is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: Tim Kaine changed his twice stance within 48 hours? Doubt it. Again, I'm not a big Biden fan these days but recognize that anyone who wins the nomination will get my vote and support. Even more so now with the current state of the GOP management. I hope all of us who have a problem with the Trump admin will do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 It's also somewhat amazing to me that people care DEEPLY about a candidate's progressive credentials, but don't have a damn whether that person is ready to be President on day one. Mayor of a small midwest town? Great! House backbencher? Super! 1/3 of a term as Senator? No worries there. As long as they say the right things, who cares if they've actually done anything. This kind of thinking is working out great currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 1 minute ago, PleaseBlitz said: It's also somewhat amazing to me that people care DEEPLY about a candidate's progressive credentials, but don't have a damn whether that person is ready to be President on day one. Mayor of a small midwest town? Great! House backbencher? Super! 1/3 of a term as Senator? No worries there. As long as they say the right things, who cares if they've actually done anything. This kind of thinking is working out great currently. Who is this in response to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Just now, BenningRoadSkin said: Who is this in response to? Just a general thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 14 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: It's also somewhat amazing to me that people care DEEPLY about a candidate's progressive credentials, but don't have a damn whether that person is ready to be President on day one. Mayor of a small midwest town? Great! House backbencher? Super! 1/3 of a term as Senator? No worries there. As long as they say the right things, who cares if they've actually done anything. This kind of thinking is working out great currently. Trump has significantly lowered the bar. That’s why everyone and their mother is running. However tbh, it’s not for the worst. “Being ready to be President” is what brings us stale and bad politics, because it typically eliminates younger candidates. Obama routinely defeated “ready to be president” candidates and we were for the better. I have no no issue with unconventional candidates as long as their policies are good and they force people to consider new ideas. I would vote for Andrew Yang over Joe Biden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 31 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: It's also somewhat amazing to me that people care DEEPLY about a candidate's progressive credentials, but don't have a damn whether that person is ready to be President on day one. Mayor of a small midwest town? Great! House backbencher? Super! 1/3 of a term as Senator? No worries there. As long as they say the right things, who cares if they've actually done anything. This kind of thinking is working out great currently. I dont like the lack of experience either, but the problem with Trump is he has zero intention of getting up to speed or surround himself with experts to help him. This is why I see people like Warren bringing everything back home to how it's supposed to be when the actual debates start, I'm waiting for the next "what's Aleppo ", it's coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 28 minutes ago, No Excuses said: Trump has significantly lowered the bar. That’s why everyone and their mother is running. However tbh, it’s not for the worst. “Being ready to be President” is what brings us stale and bad politics, because it typically eliminates younger candidates. Obama routinely defeated “ready to be president” candidates and we were for the better. I have no no issue with unconventional candidates as long as their policies are good and they force people to consider new ideas. Trump has lowered the bar. It's sad and it's been a disaster. A lot of people have endured real hardships because Trump doesn't know what he's doing. I think it's the wrong takeaway that "oh, if Trump can do it, anyone can do it." I think the Trump presidency should be seen as starkly illustrative that not everyone can do it, at least not well, and it's a really important job with a lot at stake. I guess I'm not inclined to think something is okay just because some people that don't share my values (e.g., Trump voters) think it is okay or even great. I also have no issue with unconventional candidates with good ideas. But at the end of the day, I want a steady hand at the wheel, especially after the past 2+ years of chaos. I personally value that return to stability and normalcy over any single policy issue, and I generally care deeply about policy. I certainly don't think Biden is the only one that fits the bill, but he certainly has the most relevant experience of everyone. I suppose you can spin that as a bad thing, but it reeks of spin to me. 28 minutes ago, No Excuses said: I would vote for Andrew Yang over Joe Biden. I am going to assume this is hyperbole for the sake of your credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 29 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I dont like the lack of experience either, but the problem with Trump is he has zero intention of getting up to speed or surround himself with experts to help him. This is why I see people like Warren bringing everything back home to how it's supposed to be when the actual debates start, I'm waiting for the next "what's Aleppo ", it's coming. I totally agree, and to be clear, I don't think "most experienced" = "best candidate." I'm saying that it needs to be a significant consideration. And I love Warren and think she'd make a great President. She'd also be, by far, the best President for me personally (meaning professional/financially) because I work in an area that her policies are very likely to make extremely lucrative. If the primary were right now, I'd vote for Warren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Trump not only lowered the bar when it comes to qualifications, but also on being be able to create a fake version of yourself for the public. The man doesn't just lie, he is a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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