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Presidential Election 2020 - ManChild vs Adult

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28 minutes ago, Force1958 said:

I keep asking folks on Twitter that call for impeachment on what grounds would they do this.  So far I've not gotten anything of substance as a reply.  There's a reason for that as he's done nothing to warrant it, absolutely nothing.  It would go down faster than the Green New Deal did.

 

 

Obstruction of justice.  Giving illegal orders.  Those would seem to be 2 places to start based on what is in the public domain.

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26 minutes ago, Force1958 said:

I keep asking folks on Twitter that call for impeachment on what grounds would they do this.  So far I've not gotten anything of substance as a reply.  There's a reason for that as he's done nothing to warrant it, absolutely nothing.  It would go down faster than the Green New Deal did.

 

 

There are several things worth mentioning.

 

Trump has repeatedly violated the Foreign Emulents Clause of the Constitution. That isn't debatable and it is an impeachable offense. 

 

Additionally, Trump directed Comey to abandon the investigation into Russian interference in the election. Comey refused and Trump fired him. That could be considered an impeachable offense.

 

Also, Trump has failed to oversee his duties of faithfully executing the law (and upholding equal protection of the law) when he has repeatedly tweeted and/or verbally encouraged police to "rough up" protestors and treated people of color and/or differing faith as second class citizens. Again, those are potential impeachable offenses.

 

Then let's talk about his continued attack on the free press. You know, one of those pesky protected rights? He's called American journalists the enemy of the people. Repeatedly. That alone is a potentially impeachable offense.

 

Finally let's address his violation of campaign finance laws by using campaign donations to pay for hush payments to Stormy and other women. Again, potentially impeachable offenses.

 

So in totality, there is a giant **** load to choose from..or lump together. So yeah, it exists.

 

Whether it's the right move is another question altogether.

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Force1958 said:

You all do remember the 2016 election, right??  Polls mean nothing.  The group responsible for each poll taken typically direct the poll audience to those with a predisposed position on the topic.  Happens all the time.  Oh, I wanted to add this link to the partners the polling group has.  I rest my case.  https://tulchinresearch.com/clients/

I dont disagree, but that's a poll that is traditionally right-leaning, according to 538.

 

THe midwest doesn't bang with Trump tho, and those were the states that won Trump enough electoral college votes by like 80,000. 

Edited by BenningRoadSkin

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1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

And my thinking is that if they are citizens, then they should have that right. Your rights do not stop when you are in prison.

 

In theory, should people get absentee ballots from where they live or they vote in the location of the prison?

Anyone that doesn't see Trump having clearly obstructing justice is simply hyper partisan and there is no point in engaging. Seriously, you put facts in front of them and it won't matter. 

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Yall falling for the same trolls game again. Either he cant read or hes a troll. No other explanation.

 

2 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

In theory, should people get absentee ballots from where they live or they vote in the location of the prison?

 

I would have no faith in a system like this working or being secure. You talk about an easy way to manipulate the vote, this would be it. (imo) 

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Watching the news, it really is clear how much they don't give women in the race the same kind of coverage. 

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There is a general case for impeachment. It's clear he doesn't faithfully execute the duties of President, given by the number of vacancies and turnover in his cabinet. Truthfully I call this incompetence -- a more organized and focused Trump on implementing more far right policy would be much more dangerous.

His legacy will be the "Worst President of my lifetime" to many people for years to come.

His political legacy will be the courts, and it belongs just as much to the **** Mitch Mac.

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2 hours ago, Llevron said:

But in this thread some of those same folks are arguing that, essentially, you should have done things like I did if you didn't want debt. 

 

Thats not the argument. 

 

You all keep making it the argument but it’s not what is being said. 

 

The issue is that a large majority of the population has had to deal with out of control tuition prices. We all got through it differently. 

 

You want to change it going forward? Fine. I’m open to all ideas including free college (though I’m not sure free is a good idea, but I’m open to the argument)

 

you want to go back and reimburse people who had to deal with it? Fine. But don’t arbitrarily draw the line like what’s been done. If you still have outstanding student debt you get help, but the rest of us get nothing? That’s horse ****. The rest of us made other sacrifices to deal with the problem. No one is belittling taking loans. It seems everyone else is belittling the other paths by outright saying those people don’t deserve anything for the sacrifices they made to deal with it. 

 

I cannot believe how difficult it is to get you guys to understand that. People with loans certainly aren’t the only ones who made tough decisions. And people who choose to prioritize paying off their loans, and have no more debt, certainly shouldn’t be ignored. 

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1 hour ago, Hersh said:

In theory, should people get absentee ballots from where they live or they vote in the location of the prison?

I would give the option of either registering to vote where they are incarcerated or fill out an absentee. It's like a college student.

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16 hours ago, PeterMP said:

 

But forgiving student loans isn't educating people.  The people are educated.

 

I'd absolutely buy that taxing the ultra rich to improve our education system and make it more equitable (at all levels) would be a positive thing to do.

 

I'm not for across the board free college, but I am completely for massively ramping out government funding of colleges to lower tuition costs to cancel out the last 30+ years of over inflation tuition increases for in state tuitions at public universities and doing other things to help people that actually need help paying for college and can, want to, and should go to college.  I think if you made it absolutely free, you'd just water the down the importance of a college education and water down the quality of a college education.

 

If we are (through the government)  paying colleges to teach to the lowest students, some colleges will take that money and the students won't really care if it is free to them.

 

 

We are in total agreement.  I think the college finance scheme that we have is broken (see my first post on this topic in this thread, as well as my many posts in the student debt thread). 

 

I also like the state of West Virginia's plan with Promise Scholarships, which are merit based scholarships, albeit a lower bar than most academic scholarships. Basically, if your high school GPA is 3.0 or better, and you maintain that throughout, then a significant portion of your tuition is paid for at a public university for WV residents.  

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We all get it Tshile but you're complaining about your personal situation as if no one else around here paid their college loans.

 

Is there a social program or tax credit where the people proceeding it didnt get the shaft? That's kind of the point is it not?

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Mooka said:

We all get it Tshile but you're complaining about your personal situation as if no one else around here paid their college loans.

 

Is there a social program or tax credit where the people proceeding it didnt get the shaft? That's kind of the point is it not?

 

No i'm not.

 

And i've quite clearly separated solving the issue going forward vs reimbursing people that have already gone through it. Multiple times. In clear language.

 

FYI - No reimbursement solution would put money in my pocket. So you should probably reconsider whether I'm complaining about my situation, or others. 

 

Also, given the responses, it's quite clear not everyone gets it. Otherwise people wouldn't be saying the things they're saying. That includes yours that I quoted.

 

Edited by tshile

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, tshile said:

 

Thats not the argument. 

 

You all keep making it the argument but it’s not what is being said. 

 

The issue is that a large majority of the population has had to deal with out of control tuition prices. We all got through it differently. 

 

I dont follow. The issue with Warrens plan is that people deal with tuition prices differently? Maybe this is why people keep mistaking your argument. I feel like what you want to say is that her plan doesnt help you and thats your issue with it. Is that it? If so then just say it. Much easier that way. 

 

I dont think anyone is trying to make your argument something its not. Im certainly not. You are weirdly defensive about this whole thing. More than usual. I think thats a big part of the problem we have understanding what you are trying to say here. 

 

Quote

You want to change it going forward? Fine. I’m open to all ideas including free college (though I’m not sure free is a good idea, but I’m open to the argument)

 

you want to go back and reimburse people who had to deal with it? Fine. But don’t arbitrarily draw the line like what’s been done. If you still have outstanding student debt you get help, but the rest of us get nothing? That’s horse ****.

 

I can agree its not fair if thats your entire complaint. Im not sure it rises to the level of "**** you im voting for trump" like someone said earlier (I think that was you but i didnt go back to check so excuse me if im wrong). Im sure there is room for discussion on this. It just seems like such a silly reason to be so pissed off about it.  

 

Quote

The rest of us made other sacrifices to deal with the problem. No one is belittling taking loans. It seems everyone else is belittling the other paths by outright saying those people don’t deserve anything for the sacrifices they made to deal with it. 

 

Seriously, I dont think anyone here has said this. You are making this up and it hurts your argument cause it makes you look stupid. Point me to someone, anyone, saying this. 

 

Quote

I cannot believe how difficult it is to get you guys to understand that.

 

Part of it is your ridiculous theatrics claiming that everyone is making fun of you lol

 

Quote

People with loans certainly aren’t the only ones who made tough decisions. And people who choose to prioritize paying off their loans, and have no more debt, certainly shouldn’t be ignored. 

 

Again. Show me someone who says they should be ignored and then we can argue that. Until then I dont see anyone saying that. I just see one dude saying that people are saying it. Over and over. And over. 

Edited by Llevron
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2 hours ago, PeterMP said:

 

Obstruction of justice.  Giving illegal orders.  Those would seem to be 2 places to start based on what is in the public domain.

 

Do you think Obama should have been impeached for those?

He clearly gave illegal orders.

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I like the idea of there being identified degree programs that the government is willing to fully fund, degrees that our workforce needs.  But gov't narrows down choice of schools.

 

For other majors, I also think it would be a good idea to just eliminate interest on college loans.  You have to pay it back but it's a 0% loan.  Defer payments for a bit until folks have a chance to settle.

 

I'd also offer gov't funded retraining programs (think trades as opposed to college for those so inclined) for workers in disappearing careers to allow them to transition.  I'd even offer a gov't health insurance program for the time they are in the program.

 

But I'd also have rules in place to prevent slackers and people from taking advantage.  You have to complete in a given time period or you have to pay it back or something along those lines.

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2 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I dont disagree, but that's a poll that is traditionally right-leaning, according to 538.

 

THe midwest doesn't bang with Trump tho, and those were the states that won Trump enough electoral college votes by like 80,000. 

 

It specifically says that it is an internal poll, meaning the Bernie campaign paid for it and is not this pollsters standard poll.  When you pay for a thing, you get to engineer the outcome.

 

You'll also note that the follow up tweet said "Bernie is the strongest candidate to defeat Trump."  That's a weird conclusion given that the poll did not ask about any other candidates besides Bernie and Trump.  

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4 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

It specifically says that it is an internal poll, meaning the Bernie campaign paid for it and is not this pollsters standard poll.  When you pay for a thing, you get to engineer the outcome.

 

You'll also note that the follow up tweet said "Bernie is the strongest candidate to defeat Trump."  That's a weird conclusion given that the poll did not ask about any other candidates besides Bernie and Trump.  

I get that too.

 

But 538 gave that polling firm a B rating - with A being excellent - and the poll has a slight right leaning bias.

 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/

 

Trump is not doing well in the midwest at all.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I get that too.

 

But 538 gave that polling firm a B rating - with A being excellent - and the poll has a slight right leaning bias.

 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/

 

Trump is not doing well in the midwest at all.

 

Right, but this is not "their poll."  This is a totally different poll by the same polling firm. 538 is saying this polling firm's external poll (of all candidates) has a B rating and a 0.2% right bias (based on 2 polls).  This is not that poll.  This is an internal poll that the Bernie campaign commissioned that polled only Bernie and Trump.  538 states that it does not include internal polls in its poll tracker specifically because they tend to be biased. 

 

It's good to see Trump not doing well in the midwest, but it's hard to put much stock in any single poll, especially an internal one. 

Edited by PleaseBlitz
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I dont disagree, but that's a poll that is traditionally right-leaning, according to 538.

 

THe midwest doesn't bang with Trump tho, and those were the states that won Trump enough electoral college votes by like 80,000. 

I thought it was an internal Bernie campaign poll.

 

If it is a conservative poll, I’d keep in mind that a lot of GOP folks want Bernie to win the primary (whether or not they’re making a mistake in their reasoning).

 

That said the margins do look impressive.

 

 

(and I probably should have finished reading the thread before posting)

Edited by visionary

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Maybe when it comes to the student loan predatory lending scheme, the generation that has finally had enough and is attempting to do something about it is the generation that will bear the fruits of simply not going along with it.  

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