tshile Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Burgold said: There have been a lot of assaults against abortion rights. I’m willing to bet the women who voted for trump in 2016 are anti abortion rights. They’re probably happy with it all. (I realize it’s common to suggest all women are pro choice but it’s just not true. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 I’m curious if countries with a huge segment of radicalized bigots have ever deradicalized peacefully, simply through the passage of time. There’s a level of racial animosity we are reaching that I think is unprecedented, when in context of our times where technology has made everyone hyper connected and dialed in. I don’t think we have seen even a sliver of how ugly this is going to get by 2020. The GOP seems to be doubling on down on its failed 2018 strategy of abandoning policy issues in favor of stoking culture wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 I shouldnt be, but i'm amazed that its not the racism, sexism, xenophobia, blatant and overt corruption, idiocy, and overall blinding incompetency that drives people's motivation, its a fear of moving "too far left" (which doesnt mean the same thing to any 2 people) America, you so stupid nowadays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Well now that you said this, I'm curious. What are the reasons? Well the one was about people becoming trump supporters now because they’re into reality tv and that’s what they see in the WH - that’s just not my experience or what I’m seeing. Not saying you’re wrong, I just am not seeing that in my little slice of the world. The other was about the government being permanently screwed and this whole overarching idea that shows up often in political threads around here that somehow the end days are coming and we’re on the cusp of a civil war/end of America/etc. I just don’t think any of that’s true. Not you specifically, for obvious reasons, but generally I find people who talk like that have never been deployed into an actual war environment and drastically underestimate how awful war actually is and drastically overestimate the willingness of people to go into a war. I specifically find that with people who seem to be waiting for it and wanting it. The remind me of people I know that failed out/dropped out of college and have this “I knew more than the teachers” reflection of their time in school - ie: completely clueless people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, StillUnknown said: I shouldnt be, but i'm amazed that its not the racism, sexism, xenophobia, blatant and overt corruption, idiocy, and overall blinding incompetency that drives people's motivation, its a fear of moving "too far left" (which doesnt mean the same thing to any 2 people) America, you so stupid nowadays The only thing a lot of white Republicans, and white people, in general, are mad about with regards to Trump is that he is crass. Fascism is part of the American fabric throughout history, so that isn't a big deal; neither is xenophobia, corruption, sexism, and racism. It's not a big deal. Just Trump being crass about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 32 minutes ago, No Excuses said: I’m curious if countries with a huge segment of radicalized bigots have ever deradicalized peacefully, simply through the passage of time. I’ve been saying for a while now that the end result of this is a significant increase in domestic terrorism. Same thing that happens every time a group of people become radicalized and then marginalized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: I’ve been saying for a while now that the end result of this is a significant increase in domestic terrorism. Same thing that happens every time a group of people become radicalized and then marginalized. Yeah... something economists don’t bother factoring into their theories when they form and pitch them sort of like the opioid epidemic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: I’ve been saying for a while now that the end result of this is a significant increase in domestic terrorism. Same thing that happens every time a group of people become radicalized and then marginalized. I think this is likely too and a lot of experts on this issue seem to think that this is the slow cooking time bomb that we are neglecting today: https://www.fpri.org/article/2019/05/america-has-a-white-nationalist-terrorism-problem-what-should-we-do/ I think Trump being in power is somewhat keeping a check on a lot of these groups. If he loses in 2020, it's quite likely that we see a wave of domestic terrorism from people who have been buying into all the idiotic conspiracies of "white genocide" and "Sharia takeover" that are a central theme of the right's social worldview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 The most frustrating part about the "white anxiety" aspect of Trump's voting base is their lack of awareness about it and it shows how things can subconsciously be imprinted on your brain. I'd imagine most of the ladies on that CNN panel swearing up and done none of this is about race, likely live in majority white areas/suburbs, don't travel outside their bergs very much, and 90% of their visibility of minorities comes from right-wing media and general news programs which are never shy on showcasing the worst of society. That is their "education" on non-white folks. That combined with "stealing your jobs" lies constantly being perpetuated, they simply have zero real life experience to counter that narrative. Contrast that with someone like me, living in CA, one of the more diverse places you can be, I live, shop, party, work, etc etc.....with just about every race & ethnicity you can think of, (and yes I am sure some are undocumented) and it just makes me laugh (and get angry) over the BS that is said about these people on right-wing programming. I don't think I have ever had a job "stolen" from me whether it was McDonald's as a teenager, warehouse work for a major retailer, or now working in the finance department at an insurance company. These things that right-wing media say are just not true and it's frustrating that portions of this country are so isolated and insulated from people not exactly like themselves, that the left even has to waste their time debunking this nonsense over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, tshile said: I’m willing to bet the women who voted for trump in 2016 are anti abortion rights. They’re probably happy with it all. (I realize it’s common to suggest all women are pro choice but it’s just not true. ) I think that's fair. There are many other women's issue that Trump is openly hostile towards though. Though hell, Trump is hostile to most human issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said: The only thing a lot of white Republicans, and white people, in general, are mad about with regards to Trump is that he is crass. Fascism is part of the American fabric throughout history, so that isn't a big deal; neither is xenophobia, corruption, sexism, and racism. It's not a big deal. Just Trump being crass about it. Trump says the things that these people have been hearing on right-wing radio for 30 years ever since Rush Limbaugh built the "you can become filthy rich being a lying blow hard on he radio" model. Trump has married himself to these extreme views and the vitriolic language and portrayal of his political opponents out of a desperation to survive. I'll say again, not every Trump supporter is racist, but Trump certainly needs that block of racists in order to win. His campaign is banking on the rank & file GOP voters casting their vote for him merely for not wanting a Democrat to win, so they don't feel the need to appeal to them in the big picture. They probably feel if they ramp down the rhetoric it will be viewed as him "going soft" or "selling out" and the racists and bigots might end up staying home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Out of curiosity, do any of the Dem candidates have any religious beliefs that are noteworthy? Atheists, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 42 minutes ago, No Excuses said: I think this is likely too and a lot of experts on this issue seem to think that this is the slow cooking time bomb that we are neglecting today: https://www.fpri.org/article/2019/05/america-has-a-white-nationalist-terrorism-problem-what-should-we-do/ I think Trump being in power is somewhat keeping a check on a lot of these groups. If he loses in 2020, it's quite likely that we see a wave of domestic terrorism from people who have been buying into all the idiotic conspiracies of "white genocide" and "Sharia takeover" that are a central theme of the right's social worldview. We just gonna have to pump those people with opioids and keep it moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Of course lost in all of this are actual issues that plague communities Democrats don’t really make any attempt to appeal to. And honestly I don’t even know what percentage of them are the racist trumpster you guys are talking about and what percentage are unfortunately guilty by association. I don’t live in those communities and the public image of them people like me get to see isn’t exactly favorable to them in that regard.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 28 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Out of curiosity, do any of the Dem candidates have any religious beliefs that are noteworthy? Atheists, etc. Gillibrand, Biden and Castro are Catholic. Gillibrand probably talks about religion more than the other 2. Booker and Buttigeg are openly Christian and talk about their religion frequently. (Buttigeg has sniped at Pence and Booker has been active in black churches). Gabbard is Hindu. I'm not sure if she's a practicing Hindu. Sanders was raised Jewish, but doesn't really identify as such today. He seems to be pretty areligious, and I don't think associates with any organized group. The rest I don't know about. I don't think any of them are openly atheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 26 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Out of curiosity, do any of the Dem candidates have any religious beliefs that are noteworthy? Atheists, etc. Butigieg seems genuinely pious, which makes him a great foil for intellectually inferior homophobic Christian right nutjobs like Pence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 37 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: 'd imagine most of the ladies on that CNN panel swearing up and done none of this is about race, likely live in majority white areas/suburbs, don't travel outside their bergs very much, and 90% of their visibility of minorities comes from right-wing media and general news programs which are never shy on showcasing the worst of society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, PeterMP said: Gabbard is Hindu. I'm not sure if she's a practicing Hindu. She is and I know this because she's part of my cousins loony bin sect of Hinduism, that by all definitions is a cult: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tulsi-gabbard-krishna-cult-rumors_n_6879588 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, tshile said: I’m willing to bet the women who voted for trump in 2016 are anti abortion rights. They’re probably happy with it all. (I realize it’s common to suggest all women are pro choice but it’s just not true. ) i think this (broader) fact gets forgotten often. More people are probably some (WIDE) degree of pro-choice than vehemently anti- abortion, but I get the feeling (not supported AT all by data) that something like 25 or maybe even 35% of the the electorate votes 100% on a hard anti-abortion, almost nothing else matters, basis. for this group, It doesn't matter what-the-**** Trump (or any other Chump) does, as long as he signals 100% anti-abortion. THere is probably no other "issue-voting-block" that is quite so secure, safe, and predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, PeterMP said: Gillibrand, Biden and Castro are Catholic. Gillibrand probably talks about religion more than the other 2. Booker and Buttigeg are openly Christian and talk about their religion frequently. (Buttigeg has sniped at Pence and Booker has been active in black churches). Gabbard is Hindu. I'm not sure if she's a practicing Hindu. Sanders was raised Jewish, but doesn't really identify as such today. He seems to be pretty areligious, and I don't think associates with any organized group. The rest I don't know about. I don't think any of them are openly atheist. Warren was a Sunday school teacher. She talks about it here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, mcsluggo said: i think this (broader) fact gets forgotten often. More people are probably some (WIDE) degree of pro-choice than vehemently anti- abortion, but I get the feeling (not supported AT all by data) that something like 25 or maybe even 35% of the the electorate votes 100% on a hard anti-abortion, almost nothing else matters, basis. for this group, It doesn't matter what-the-**** Trump (or any other Chump) does, as long as he signals 100% anti-abortion. THere is probably no other "issue-voting-block" that is quite so secure, safe, and predictable. There is the same element on the pro-choice side. I have no idea what the % would be. Guns has the same thing, again on both sides. Again, not sure the % of each. The only other topic I can think of that has a sizable % that behaves that way would be some people on the Israel issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 16 minutes ago, tshile said: There is the same element on the pro-choice side. I have no idea what the % would be. Guns has the same thing, again on both sides. Again, not sure the % of each. The only other topic I can think of that has a sizable % that behaves that way would be some people on the Israel issue i think all other "issue-blocks" would sometimes tolerate somebody that mostly aligns with them on a broad array of issues, but is broadly "agnostic" on one specific issue they hold strongly. (for instance... tries not to take a side on abortion, but is not overtly hostile to their pro-choice views). the most vehement Anti-abortion groups will have NONE of that. its a litmus test, 100% with-us-or-you-are-against-us issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 2 hours ago, tshile said: The whole “send her back” strikes me as what things looked like in the late 1920’s in Germany when the Nazi party started to take over. (I obviously don’t know what things looked like and I honestly don’t know if they were worse then, it’s just what that imagery sparks in my head) We'll be there when "If you vote Dem you're a traitor/dumbass," changes to: "If you vote Dem I'm going to bash your head in with this club." And dude is standing at the polls with his bat with the local authorities on his side. We're not that far off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 3 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said: I think this is painting with too broad a brush. What needs to happen is not "all women turn on Trump." What needs to happen is a lot of women who (1) are independent/moderate/could go either way and/or (2) don't normally vote, turn on Trump in significant (but not necessarily overwhelming) numbers. This did happen in 2018, which was very much a referendum on Trump. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-2018-gender-gap-was-huge/ https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/7/18064260/midterm-elections-turnout-women-trump-exit-polls Thats fair. i did intentionally paint this with a broad brush because I am a bit uncomfortable saying 'white women' even though I recognize that is the reality here. Im not sure when its appropriate or not. I dont know at this point if it is helpful or not. Calling them out could make them see the light or it could drive them further from it. At this point im not sure which is more likely. 3 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said: Specify it. Its specifically white women. Same. I know you are right. Im just not sure if its helpful for me to say it that way or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, Llevron said: Same. I know you are right. Im just not sure if its helpful for me to say it that way or not. the truth is always helpful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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