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Presidential Election :11/3/2020- The Impotus Puppet vs The Rise of BootyWalker & some other Dems

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1 minute ago, Larry said:

 

I suspect I can speak for most of Tailgate when I recommend option "postal".  

 

 

 

i think he'd be returned for insufficient postage

 

 

 

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Democrats shouldnt be stupid enough to make it a vote for the most left candidate ever or Trump. But even if it comes to that I would hope more Americans are smart enough to understand that the left most candidate ever is a better choice for them and the country than Donald Trump or a wasted vote on a 3rd party (assuming it looks like it will be wasted....it may not be when that time comes). 

 

I dont see much of a difference between not voting all in protest, something many people on all political sides bemoaned Kapernick for, and voting for a 3rd party you know cant win in protest. Except now we know how bad it can get if you waste your one and only vote. All that being said I dont expect the Dems to come to the table an nominate the left version of Trump. That is what you will be feed, for sure. But I dont think they will do that. So you shouldn't have to face that choice. At worse you will have to stomach the fact that you voted for someone whose policies you dont 100% agree with in order to be done with the worst political nightmare of your lifetime. 

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What is dumb is that Congress has enough power, especially in the Senate that whatever fear one could have of "Medicare for Some More" and "Preventing Climate Change Policy" the far-out of mainstream items on the left (and right) won't get implemented.

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15 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Democrats shouldnt be stupid enough to make it a vote for the most left candidate ever or Trump. But even if it comes to that I would hope more Americans are smart enough to understand that the left most candidate ever is a better choice for them and the country than Donald Trump or a wasted vote on a 3rd party (assuming it looks like it will be wasted....it may not be when that time comes). 

 

I dont see much of a difference between not voting all in protest, something many people on all political sides bemoaned Kapernick for, and voting for a 3rd party you know cant win in protest. Except now we know how bad it can get if you waste your one and only vote. All that being said I dont expect the Dems to come to the table an nominate the left version of Trump. That is what you will be feed, for sure. But I dont think they will do that. So you shouldn't have to face that choice. At worse you will have to stomach the fact that you voted for someone whose policies you dont 100% agree with in order to be done with the worst political nightmare of your lifetime. 

 

Unfortunately, my big fear is that there are 5-6 great candidates that split the 75% of reasonable votes, and one person that gets all of the  25% of "most left" votes and wins.  

Edited by PleaseBlitz

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14 hours ago, bearrock said:

 

Remember too that blue states with higher SALT tends to be net givers to the federal government.

I think there’s an opportunity for the Dems here. They need to put forth legislation that does away with some states suckling on the public teat while others subsidize their lifestyles. So, I’d like to see something like a requirement that all states be required to be budget neutral with regard to impact on the Fed budget over say, five year rolling periods. Maybe the details make that specific proposal unworkable, but there has to be a way to accomplish this general aim that will work. 

 

Any Dem that can’t or won’t realize that we’re fighting the civil war all over again, albeit on a different battleground can forget earning my vote. 

 

13 hours ago, twa said:

 

Those blue states have high income....many as a direct result of the federal govt spending.

I would certainly hope they were net givers. :)

 

I'm all for slashing govt spending and reasonable taxes.

 

on the other hand it seems wrong to shift 15K to the blue state from federal funds as a deduction(after the 10K).

 

sorta encourages more bad behavioR

The low tax states are running lean by using the Feds to pay for stuff their local taxpayers need to be providing. Let’s have a return to state FISCAL sovereignty y’all!

 

1 hour ago, Larry said:

 

I suspect I can speak for most of Tailgate when I recommend option "postal".  

 

Nah, I’d rather see him go home. I hear Moscow is beautiful this time of year.😃

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@The Sisko
While I agree with the sentiment, that type of scorched earth policy is not worth it in the long run. Policy should not be weaponized that fashion. It was BS SALT was used to cut taxes on the rich.

I say this tongue in cheek, but you know if the Fed Govt did what you propose to red states, red politicians would say, "The illegals used all the fed government money."

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Nobody can say that they don't support Trump and don't want to Trump to win while at the same time saying they won't support a too far left candidate or would not vote/vote third party. 

 

If you don't want Trump to win and do not support what he is doing to the country, you would vote the Dem candidate. Voting 3rd party or not voting at this point is the same thing as voting for Trump. 

 

Or just be honest and say you want a republican candidate that isn't Trump but since you technically don't want to vote for Trump because you know it's wrong, you'll just take other actions that help Trump win to help clear your conscience. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Howard Schultz:  "Americans don't want far left ideas like AOC's 70% marginal tax rate."

 

Americans:  Yes we do.  

 

Howard Schultz as President: "I said you dont" 

 

49 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Unfortunately, my big fear is that there are 5-6 great candidates that split the 75% of reasonable votes, and one person that gets all of the  25% of "most left" votes and wins.  

 

I really had not thought about that

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Seriously how out of touch are ya Howard? Listening skills, do you posses them?

 

Literally people just said they agree with a top tax rate of 70%. 

Edited by clietas
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He claims to be a lifelong Democrat, but everything I've seen from him, he's running as a Republican.

 

Rich guy like Romney and Trump?  Check

Won't raise taxes on the rich like literally all of them?  Check

Talks about cutting entitlements like Paul Ryan?  Check

 

Maybe he should run so he can take votes from Trump.  

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29 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

Nobody can say that they don't support Trump and don't want to Trump to win while at the same time saying they won't support a too far left candidate or would not vote/vote third party. 

 

If you don't want Trump to win and do not support what he is doing to the country, you would vote the Dem candidate. Voting 3rd party or not voting at this point is the same thing as voting for Trump. 

 

Or just be honest and say you want a republican candidate that isn't Trump but since you technically don't want to vote for Trump because you know it's wrong, you'll just take other actions that help Trump win to help clear your conscience. 

 

 

 

i keep thinking of starting a thread on the 'lost, homeless, or wandering republican" that many non-trumpers portray themselves as and they talk about hoping the dems give them somebody they can vote for (examples form any such gopers would help the discourse)

 

my position has gone from more supportive and encouraged---not becuase they might vote dem, but just that they at least aren't so effed-up in the head as people who actually support trump---to being more negative/critical of their position as they keep critiquing the menu with lofty airs after their own inept cooking with garbage ingredients accumulating for a very long time has resulted in e. coli for most of the decent humans in the nation

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Llevron said:

I dont see much of a difference between not voting all in protest, something many people on all political sides bemoaned Kapernick for, and voting for a 3rd party you know cant win in protest. Except now we know how bad it can get if you waste your one and only vote. 

As someone who voted 3rd party in 2016, it wasn't a wasted vote at the time.  Remember Hillary was projected to have a landslide victory.  It was a vote (for me at least) to get a 3rd party more recognized instead of the crap the 2 major parties were throwing out.  I've said before that in hindsight, I might do it different.  But you have to remember what was known/projected at the time of the election.

 

Quote

At worse you will have to stomach the fact that you voted for someone whose policies you dont 100% agree with in order to be done with the worst political nightmare of your lifetime. 

I don't expect someone I agree with 100%.  Anyone who expects to agree 100% with any candidate is ****ing stupid.  But if the Dems put out a candidate I only agree with 30% (just making up a number, you get the point I'm sure), then I may go 3rd party again.  Believe me, I'm going to be watching the Left candidates closely.

 

(On a side note, can we agree that all the people on the Left that call for AOC to run are ****ing stupid?)

 

50 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

Nobody can say that they don't support Trump and don't want to Trump to win while at the same time saying they won't support a too far left candidate or would not vote/vote third party. 

 

Sure we can.  Look above.  I just did.

 

And @Jumbo's post just popped up.  I guess he is not a fan of my thought process.

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1 hour ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

Nobody can say that they don't support Trump and don't want to Trump to win while at the same time saying they won't support a too far left candidate or would not vote/vote third party. 

 

Or just be honest and say you want a republican candidate that isn't Trump but since you technically don't want to vote for Trump.

 

 

I am hoping, and have said in this thread, I want a republican other than Trump to vote for.  If not, my vote will probably go to Gary Johnson or someone else that aligns more so with my beliefs.

 

14 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

i keep thinking of starting a thread on the 'lost, homeless, or wandering republican" that many non-trumpers portray themselves as and they talk about hoping the dems give them somebody they can vote for (examples form any such gopers would help the discourse)

 

my position has gone from more supportive and encouraged---not becuase they might vote dem, but just that they at least aren't so effed-up in the head as people who actually support trump---to being more negative/critical of their position as they keep critiquing the menu with lofty airs after their own inept cooking with garbage ingredients accumulating for a very long time has resulted in e. coli for most of the decent humans in the nation

 

 

 

 

HAHA, sign me up!  Although I haven't found a dem i'd like to vote for yet.  Except the local level, which is vastly different.

 

For your second point, i think there are people who blindly look at the results, and say "I cannot believe how many republican things he actually pushed through".  So therefore boom, you get the die hard trumpers.   And man that was a sentence i had to re-read a couple times to follow but good point lol.

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14 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

 

And @Jumbo's post just popped up.  I guess he is not a fan of my thought process.

 

 

there are some elements i agree with, and some i don't, but while i might not sue the word fan, i typically have positive reactions to your thought processes (be vewy afwaid) :P

 

always subject to change  :D

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34 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

i keep thinking of starting a thread on the 'lost, homeless, or wandering republican" that many non-trumpers portray themselves as and they talk about hoping the dems give them somebody they can vote for (examples form any such gopers would help the discourse)

 

my position has gone from more supportive and encouraged---not becuase they might vote dem, but just that they at least aren't so effed-up in the head as people who actually support trump---to being more negative/critical of their position as they keep critiquing the menu with lofty airs after their own inept cooking with garbage ingredients accumulating for a very long time has resulted in e. coli for most of the decent humans in the nation

 

 

 

 

My position is that this election is not about convincing shaky Republicans to not vote Republican, it's about convincing everyone else to turn out to vote against someone who is so clearly unfit for the job and an actual threat to America's well being and, rather, to vote for someone that is both qualified and not a monster. 

 

A vote for a third party is a wasted vote, it is not a vote against Trump or a vote for someone that has an actual chance of winning.  Just write in Mickey Mouse and never speak to me about your thought process.  

Edited by PleaseBlitz
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6 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

As someone who voted 3rd party in 2016, it wasn't a wasted vote at the time.  Remember Hillary was projected to have a landslide victory.  It was a vote (for me at least) to get a 3rd party more recognized instead of the crap the 2 major parties were throwing out.  I've said before that in hindsight, I might do it different.  But you have to remember what was known/projected at the time of the election.

 

Naw I can understand that. I declined to vote "in protest" feeling secure in the fact that she would win without issue and looking back on that, not only would I vote but I would have gotten more people to come with me. I literally picked up cats on the way in for the midterms so I could have done the same for the presidential one. 

 

Hindsight being what it is, we both ended up wasting our votes. At least that's my view on it, but I do see where we can have room for difference of opinion on that. We both very much want a strong 3rd party to vote for so I can see the want to help them get more recognition. 

 

6 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I don't expect someone I agree with 100%.  Anyone who expects to agree 100% with any candidate is ****ing stupid.  But if the Dems put out a candidate I only agree with 30% (just making up a number, you get the point I'm sure), then I may go 3rd party again.  Believe me, I'm going to be watching the Left candidates closely.

 

I feel you. You know I dont agree 100% with you on this either, but I feel you. 

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20 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

 

 

A vote for a third party is a wasted vote, it is not a vote against Trump or a vote for someone that has an actual chance of winning.  Just write in Mickey Mouse and never speak to me about your thought process.  

 

A 3rd party vote is a desperate attempt to create a reality that doesn't exist (ie that there are more than two options). Either the Democrat or the Republican will win. Pick which you would prefer.

 

It's like if someone told you to either lick dog poo or get shot in your head. One is clearly preferable to the other. But you can't just say "I'll have the ice cream, thanks." Make the easy decision even if it's kind of gross to you, and hope next time the decision isn't so unpleasant. 

Edited by skinsfan_1215
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All this concern for a candidate who is “too far left” is unfounded.  Stop being afraid of Trump and attack the mother****er.  Hillary, a moderate, already lost to Trump.  You put some middle of the road putz up there against him and the Democrats are gonna lose again.

 

Motivate the people who stayed home in Trump/Clinton to come out and vote.  Don’t try to win back those losers who support a Russian puppet.  Stop being reactive, and start being proactive.

 

They need:

Medicare for all

Tax on the rich

Climate change initiatives

Gun control

Legal pot

 

Stop trying to compromise with the republican base and just motivate your own base to show up and you ****ing win.

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i'm not ready to advocate for the "Springfield plunge" (per his post above), but i do get it, i acknowledge that the view may be right on the money, and that maybe  i'm just being a foot-dragger and missing something by not seeing this as the moment to go notably left of center-left...keep in mind i don't label myself as a dem, either, though

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10 minutes ago, Springfield said:

They need:

It's funny because this list is a lot of the things that I care about.

 

Quote

Medicare for all

I'm cool with that but I almost never hear people address the costs of healthcare itself.  This is a bigger concern than people having health insurance in my opinion.  Advocating for healthcare for all without a plan to address the cost of care is a negative to me.

 

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Tax on the rich

I support this.  But you need to make me BELIEVE that there won't be a bunch of loopholes for the donors and lobbyist.  Unfortunatly I don't think either party has the stones to do this.  So a candidate calling for a tax on the rich but not being able to explain how they will get it to happen will be seen as a negative to me.  Don't just give me pie in the sky bull****, have a plan or don't even bring it up.

 

Quote

Climate change initiatives

Pretty much the same as the tax on the rich.  What is your actual plan and how are you going to defeat the special interests.  I know it's wrong, but this topic is probably last on the list that you posted to me though.

 

Quote

Gun control

I'm not going to rehash my thoughts on this.  What I consider acceptable is in the gun control thread.  I will say about this topic more than any other, a swing too far to the left and you will definetly lose my vote.

 

Quote

Legal pot

This I'm all for and don't really get how anyone can be against.  At bare minimum, decriminalize it at the federal level and let the states decide.

20 minutes ago, Springfield said:

Stop trying to compromise with the republican base and just motivate your own base to show up and you ****ing win.

I think you need more than just your own base to win.  You're going to need some of the middle independants also.

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The sad truth is the Democrats have lost the messaging war over the last 30 years (in general) on economics.  The GOP/Conservative media has gone non-stop at telling the masses that anything to the left of full blown Trickle Down-Reaganism-supply side-voodoo economics is Socialism.  When it comes to the economy Democrats seem to have little to no leeway before they are accused of being un-American.

 

It's as if this country was running a Socialist regime until Saint Reagan broke the chains of economic slavery.   

 

It is pretty telling that AOC's 70% marginal tax rate idea is polling well with even with the GOP, yet you have so-called moderate Republicans like Megan McCain screaming like a chicken with it's head cutoff about how depressed she is to see "Socialism on the march."   It's quite ridiculous. 

Edited by NoCalMike
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i just want to diverge for a sec to list deebie wassermen shultz whatever--who just appeared before my eyes uninvited---as one of the many elected dems i cannot stomach...go away debbie

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12 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

 

 They need:

Medicare for all

Tax on the rich

Climate change initiatives

Gun control

Legal pot

 

 

These are the middle of the road positions right now in the Democratic primary.  Too left is supporting a single payer healthcare system, rather than Medicare for all, supporting a federal jobs guarantee, rather than policies that support job and wage growth.

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