Bozo the kKklown Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 46 minutes ago, techboy said: I've been thinking about it for a while, and I figure modern politics probably started in 1980 or so, or at least I'm going to use that time frame (40 years) because it's easy. In that time we've had four Republican Presidents (Reagan, HW Bush, W Bush, and Trump) and two Democrats (Clinton/Obama). The thing is, if you look at the Republicans, three of the four in terms of actually being politicians are blah to offensive. Trump is a dumpster fire who I thought was the worst candidate in history until he surprisingly became the second worst, W Bush was/is seen as a moron, and HW Bush is kind of like Hillary Clinton... boring but competent. Only Reagan was what you might consider inspiring (to the general populace.. I'm obviously leaving aside Trump's cult, which of course did help). For the Democrats, though, Clinton and Obama were both more like Reagan... they connect with people and make them dream of better things. I don't think that's a coincidence, either. The Electoral College tilts the playing field to the Republicans, so I suspect that you need a Reagan/(Bill) Clinton/ Obama type to win if you're a Democrat. The last "blah" Democrat was Carter, and he was a one termer who pretty much only got elected because of Watergate, back when the country as a whole could still feel and respond to shame. The sad thing is, that's not what you need to win a primary, and I'm afraid Democrats aren't pragmatic enough to realize that candidates like Hillary Clinton can't win in a stacked electoral college against even people like Donald Trump. I'm not sure who the next Obama/(Bill) Clinton is, but if Democrats want to win, they'd better find him/her, because Presidential elections are popularity contests, and the deck is already stacked against them. It's not fair, but that's the way life works. damn, your post just laid down everything that is wrong with the voting electorate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Definitely more interesting than I expected it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Personally Booker would have been my choice #1. Has been for awhile. And yes, I'm aware of the negatives. I just like the dude for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Is there any path for the Dems to win the White House in 2020 other than turning out new voters? My hopes are dwindling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 hours ago, NoCalMike said: Is there any path for the Dems to win the White House in 2020 other than turning out new voters? My hopes are dwindling. You need to look at the 08 Obama voters that stayed home in 2012 and 2016. Are there enough of those voters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Beto don't care. The hate not going to stop him from standing on stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Trump won the presidency by like 80,000 votes. Those voters in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin are doing terrible under trump and have broken Trump promises. It’s not impossible for those voters to turn on Trump after the last three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: Trump won the presidency by like 80,000 votes. Those voters in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin are doing terrible under trump and have broken Trump promises. It’s not impossible for those voters to turn on Trump after the last three years. Oh no doubt. I am more in the camp of "holding my breath hoping the Dems don't manage to screw this up" than Trump being a good candidate for re-election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 hours ago, NoCalMike said: Is there any path for the Dems to win the White House in 2020 other than turning out new voters? My hopes are dwindling. Turning out new voters? That’s not required. Getting their supporters that already exist to show up regularly, instead of requiring someone that “inspires” them is all that’s required. Only one party has that problem on the national level. its one of the things that irks me the most about the dems platform. If all this stuff is so important and the best way to do things then why can’t you show up to vote for it? Trump performed poorly as a republican. His % of the eligible vote was in the lower third of republican candidates in the last several decades. Clinton performed worse. They’d rather abolish the EC lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, tshile said: its one of the things that irks me the most about the dems platform. If all this stuff is so important and the best way to do things then why can’t you show up to vote for it? We did tho. About 3 million more of us showed up in fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, clietas said: We did tho. About 3 million more of us showed up in fact. Go look at % of eligible voters in states that were in play. Go look at rust belt turnout. Having a bunch of Californians show up doesn’t help. And changing the rules doesn’t seem likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, tshile said: Having a bunch of Californians show up doesn’t count. Ftfy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 8 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said: Maybe Dems should run on the ballooning of the Federal Debt under Trump? LULLLZZZZZ... The tea party has been exposed so badly for the racist fevered brain group it always was. “Fiscal conservatism” has always been a cover for the stupidly bigoted platform of the GOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 8 hours ago, visionary said: While I think she is correct in what the possibilities were, she fails to mention that we aren't addressing the underlying issues. I wrote a long post a while ago before I took a break from here stating that Trump is not our issue. He is merely a symptom of our problems. He is the vomiting that comes with this country's flu. Except our "flu" has lasted for years and shows no sign ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 White Christian nationalism isn't a sickness. It's a ****ing disease without a cure. You can try to treat it but it keeps coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 The GOP today is a reflection of the white nationalist goobers who freaked out once they saw a colored man leading the country 10 years ago. At the grassroots level it is purely driven by culture wars and to fight back against the shift towards liberal social values in mainstream society. And I mean I get it. In most metropolitan areas, you are basically shunned and looked down upon if you identify as a conservative. The GOP and the garbage it stands for has utterly failed in prominent American social centers. The response by the rural class will naturally be to fight back against social progresss that does not accept discrimination against non-whites and non-Christians. And this is where you get the typical twa response of “why are you bigoted against my bigotry”. And to that, Karl Popper’s “Paradox of Tolerance”, lays out pretty clearly why bigoted ideologies must never be accepted in open societies. Using the tolerance of society against itself to promote bigotry is a classic mechanism used by terrible people throughout history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Labeling people as racist and bigots has been used to suppress dissent for ages as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 37 minutes ago, twa said: Labeling people as racist and bigots has been used to suppress dissent for ages as well. Of course. This obviously is the case for the GOP as well if you ignore the decades long efforts at discriminating against the LGBT, the anti-immigrant xenophobia, the travel bans against people of one specific religion etc. etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 40 minutes ago, twa said: Labeling people as racist and bigots has been used to suppress dissent for ages as well. I'm with you and that's something that turns me off from democrats. But I must say, the older I grow the more I realize that their complaints have more validity than I previously gave them credit for. They're not 100% right. Not even close. But they've got plenty of valid complaints, even if wading through it all to tell which are which is tedious and annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 41 minutes ago, twa said: Labeling people as racist and bigots has been used to suppress dissent for ages as well. Such as? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 35 minutes ago, twa said: Labeling people as racist and bigots has been used to suppress dissent for ages as well. ehhhh...kinda weak, but there's merit in the line of thought (this rest is a general response, not @twa and to be clear, i'm certainly against "casual" or "lazy" accusations of racism/bigotry) Those terms are far, far, more used to label actual racists and bigots and that's the part that really rubs that yuge racist/bigot raw spot on the right. A great deal of their contingent fits the terms, and that's beyond galling for those whom it doesn't, but i'm comfy figuring the majority of self-identified gopers aren't racists or even especially bigoted folks. Tragically, after some very public gop efforts of the past to at least admit to some kind of problem there and address it (or do gopers today need reminding of all the dialogue from reagan/dole and many other major gopers of that era right up to ryan and romney et al in 2012 addressing the issues with women and poc ) the right has backslid like a mother****er on these matters. Long denial of this sizeable and dangerous element of their flock being what it is certainly paid dividends to those who led the party, even as some wanted to shed that affiliation, and sadly is now advanced to where white nationalism is a growing deal again, breitbart has successfully metastasized, and it sits on the throne in the whitehouse and occupies more than one chair at the kings table. When it comes to racism/bigotry, all honest people have to do is open their ****iing eyes and look. It's right there to see over and over again in plain sight. If the shoe fits, take your foot out of your mouth before you get one up your ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 But what dissenters have been specifically labeled racists? Southerners in 1859? Back on topic, I can't imagine the GOPs fight against the ACA (specifically getting insurance companies off the hook for pre-existing conditions) scores well with 2020 voters. It didn't in 2018. How can they not see this parachute is a backpack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Funny how repeal & replaced morphed into....."just strike the law down" thus further exposing no real plan to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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