No Excuses Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 47 minutes ago, justice98 said: I do have to give the side eye to this whole thing about these confederate statues/monuments having been up and celebrated for decades, even a century in some cases, but in the span of 4 days, all the sudden they're outrageous and have to get torn down immediately. Last week, nobody gave a crap. I have no problem with them not existing, it's the sudden freak out that gets me. This isn't true. This has been in the national and local discussion ever since Dylan Roof terrorized black church goers in SC. This has become a national issue again because some fairly prominent confederate icons are being taken down or are under review for removal. Not too long ago, the mayor of New Orleans gave a brilliant address as to why he sanctioned the removal of confederate statues in his city. Its worth a read: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/23/opinion/mitch-landrieus-speech-transcript.html The White Supremacists really got butthurt over this and started organizing. Ifs safe to say that their organizing has backfired and people more than ever are galvanized to get these monuments removed at a faster pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Having a monument for Taney is just ****ing disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 1 minute ago, BenningRoadSkin said: 1) it's not been recent 2) you are a sympathizer 3) welcome to my ignore list So you dont think these statues literally coming down overnight all over the country has anything to do with the events of the last week? If Charlottesville hadnr happened, those statues in Baltimore and Durham would still be up today and you know it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 57 minutes ago, justice98 said: I do have to give the side eye to this whole thing about these confederate statues/monuments having been up and celebrated for decades, even a century in some cases, but in the span of 4 days, all the sudden they're outrageous and have to get torn down immediately. Last week, nobody gave a crap. I have no problem with them not existing, it's the sudden freak out that gets me. Big part of the hurry is that white supremacists are all of a sudden emboldened enough to make pilgrimages to them from all across the country to neighborhoods that don't want them. They are not sending their best people. They are sending rapists, criminals, drug dealers. Some, I assume, are good people. Just now, justice98 said: So you dont think these statues literally coming down overnight all over the country has anything to do with the events of the last week? If Charlottesville hadnr happened, those statues in Baltimore and Durham would still be up today and you know it. Sure, but, it did happen. So now this is happening. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Just now, justice98 said: So you dont think these statues literally coming down overnight all over the country has anything to do with the events of the last week? If Charlottesville hadnr happened, those statues in Baltimore and Durham would still be up today and you know it. It's been going on for a while (people being offended and wanting/asking for the removal of confederate flags and statues). Again, the problem is state governments not listening or taking action ever, until recently. Now that it has started happening, the nazi/racist/bigot protesters are coming out in droves to defend said racist monuments. And while I don't advocate violence and destruction of property, I am happy to see those statues in Baltimore and Durham "removed", regardless. Hopefully it will open the eyes to state governments, that if anything, they remove all confederate statues/flags and relocate to a museum (at a minimum). The ideal solution would be to remove and destroy them, history is recorded and preserved through photos and history books, no need to keep statues, imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, No Excuses said: This isn't true. This has been in the national and local discussion ever since Dylan Roof terrorized black church goers in SC. This has become a national issue again because some fairly prominent confederate icons are being taken down or are under review for removal. Not too long ago, the mayor of New Orleans gave a brilliant address as to why he sanctioned the removal of confederate statues in his city. Its worth a read: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/23/opinion/mitch-landrieus-speech-transcript.html The White Supremacists really got butthurt over this and started organizing. Ifs safe to say that their organizing has backfired and people more than ever are galvanized to get these monuments removed at a faster pace. I think people are taking it too literal. I'm more talking about the overnight yanking of Confederate monuments, which not coincidentally, tends to coincide with some tragedy. Confederate flag debates werent really a big deal prior to Charleston. Was there a thread on ES talking about the confederate flag prior to Charleston? Or confederate statues prior to Charlottesvile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 Just now, justice98 said: I think people are taking it too literal. I'm more talking about the overnight yanking of Confederate monuments, which not coincidentally, tends to coincide with some tragedy. Confederate flag debates werent really a big deal prior to Charleston. Was there a thread on ES talking about the confederate flag prior to Charleston? Or confederate statues prior to Charlottesvile? I think we've had threads on confederate issues for quite some time, pre-dating Charleston. It's one of those ES issues that seems to come around annually tbh. Charleston and Charlottesville definitely amplified the convo. I think chartlottesville sped up a process that may have taken longer prior to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 @Dont Taze Me Bro Agree. I think it should all be destroyed and as publicly as possible. I imagine a 4th of July like night. Clear skies. Huge gathering in an old football stadium (like RFK). Giant pile of burning confederate flags and ruble in the middle with the National Anthem being blasted throughout. That will send the perfect image. To everyone. Just thinking about it has my pants a few inches higher. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, justice98 said: Was there a thread on ES talking about the confederate flag prior to Charleston? Or confederate statues prior to Charlottesvile? Naw but you know cats where talking about this stuff before then. As long as I can remember I saw the confederate flag as racist. But 6 years ago I was told I was pulling the race card -- again. Now im just socially aware and white people are doing it for me. What a time to be alive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 We still hear a lot of rationalizing bull**** about the statues. They weren't put up in the 1870s because a swarm of Union vets would have kicked someone's ass over it. Once that old guard died off the push recommenced. Quote The strangest part about the continued personality cult of Robert E. Lee is how few of the qualities his admirers profess to see in him he actually possessed. ......... The white supremacists who have protested on Lee’s behalf are not betraying his legacy. In fact, they have every reason to admire him. Lee, whose devotion to white supremacy outshone his loyalty to his country, is the embodiment of everything they stand for. Tribe and race over country is the core of white nationalism, and racists can embrace Lee in good conscience. The question is why anyone else would. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/the-myth-of-the-kindly-general-lee/529038/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Llevron said: Naw but you know cats where talking about this stuff before then. As long as I can remember I saw the confederate flag as racist. But 6 years ago I was told I was pulling the race card -- again. Now im just socially aware and white people are doing it for me. What a time to be alive. I feel you, indeed people werent oblivious. But knowing it's racist and running out in the middle of the night to yank it down with your bare hands like people were doing yesterday are two different things. On a side note, I was on another board talking about these monuments coming down and some guy was trying to make the argument of "what happens when YOUR history gets destroyed". Yeah, minority groups in America are used to that. lol Edited August 16, 2017 by justice98 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 15 minutes ago, justice98 said: On a side note, I was on another board talking about these monuments coming down and some guy was trying to make the argument of "what happens when YOU'RE history gets destroyed". Yeah, minority groups in America are used to that. lol Tell him we got a whole month and all yall got are statues on the way down just to piss him off lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Shameful that black folks call out the name ...Coon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 2 hours ago, LD0506 said: We still hear a lot of rationalizing bull**** about the statues. They weren't put up in the 1870s because a swarm of Union vets would have kicked someone's ass over it. Once that old guard died off the push recommenced. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/the-myth-of-the-kindly-general-lee/529038/ Lee was a good enough tactician he was offered the opportunity to lead the Union Army in the Civil War. Let's not allow facts to be lost in a good story. Disparaging Lee for the man he was is fair, rewriting history to fit into that disparagement adds nothing. He was a brilliant military mind, and a horrible human being. Those things can both be true, and are. See Germany in WW2. There should be zero monuments to Confederate generals standing anywhere in the public sphere. There should be markers in Civil War cemeteries to commemorate the dead Confederate soldiers, as they fell in battle (for the losing side). Naming schools after influential Americans should not be abolished. Schools should teach about the Confederacy, and the war, and the reasons for the war, and all the bad things that happened after the war. History is very important. Now, those massive stars and bars flying on I95, I81, and I64 in Virginia? Absolutely pathetic. I95: I81: I64: There is no reason to fly that big of a flag on your property other than to piss people off. You built the flagpole tall enough that trees won't obscure the flag. http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/346834-dem-va-gubernatorial-candidate-calls-for-removal-of-confederate-statues Quote Virginia Lt. Gov. Ralph Northam (D) is calling for Confederate statues and monuments in the state to be taken down and moved into museums. “I support City of Charlottesville’s decision to remove the Robert E. Lee statue," Northam, who's running for governor, said in a statement Wednesday. "I believe these statues should be taken down and moved into museums. As governor, I am going to be a vocal advocate for that approach and work with localities on this issue." Northam said Virginia also should "do more to elevate the parts of our history that have all too often been underrepresented." "That means memorializing civil rights advocates like Barbara Johns and Oliver Hill, who helped move our Commonwealth closer towards equality,” he said. Your move, Gillespie... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Popeman38 said: http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/346834-dem-va-gubernatorial-candidate-calls-for-removal-of-confederate-statues Your move, Gillespie... You think that the Dem calling fo the removal of all Confederate statues and renaming roads etc will somehow HURT the GOP candidate in VA this fall? Gillespie's move is simply silence. And yeah, people who fly huge flags so JUST to offend people are douchebags. Theres one at the crossroads of I4 and 75 in Tampa. Edited August 16, 2017 by Kilmer17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Just now, Kilmer17 said: You think that the Dem calling fo the removal of all Confederate statues and renaming roads etc will somehow HURT the GOP candidate in VA this fall? Gillespie's move is simply silence. Gillespie has a chance to win if he doesn't alienate the entirety of NOVA. If he stays silent, NOVA will go to Northam by bigger numbers than Gillespie will be able to overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Popeman38 said: Gillespie has a chance to win if he doesn't alienate the entirety of NOVA. If he stays silent, NOVA will go to Northam by bigger numbers than Gillespie will be able to overcome. Right. Which is why silence is the political smart move. He definitely loses if he comes out in any way supporting the removal of Confederate monuments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Or he can make a nothing statement........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 21 minutes ago, Popeman38 said: Lee was a good enough tactician he was offered the opportunity to lead the Union Army in the Civil War. Let's not allow facts to be lost in a good story. Disparaging Lee for the man he was is fair, rewriting history to fit into that disparagement adds nothing. He was a brilliant military mind, and a horrible human being. Those things can both be true, and are. See Germany in WW2. Absolutely right, and you don't see statues of Rommel anywhere in spite of all the work done to make him into a "good guy". Lee, Jackson, et. al. do not deserve to be forgotten or disparaged, they did what they thought they ought to or had to, but people need the context to go along with the statues, and they don't get that in the least with what we have now, especially considering the actual circumstances of why those statues were erected in the first place. I actually have more of an issue with removing/destroying monuments to the soldiers that fought and died, they didn't decide anything but their blood ran on the ground in rivers. But again, context....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 37 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: You think that the Dem calling fo the removal of all Confederate statues and renaming roads etc will somehow HURT the GOP candidate in VA this fall? Gillespie's move is simply silence. are you just too mentally lazy and self-absorbed to clip the long quote per rule 11 like you know is the rule, and like you've seen us warn people about 1000000 times? you've been here how long and still ignore the most basic rules? do you have any idea of how often you've violated that rule (and others of course) and have been told about it? i do. and yesterday i even handled this very same issue for you and made a joke of it and brought it to your attention. how would you explain this? when you return, you can tell me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 45 minutes ago, Popeman38 said: Now, those massive stars and bars flying on I95, I81, and I64 in Virginia? Absolutely pathetic. I guess this would be wrong huh............ 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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