Nationwide Removal of Confederate Statues

[PokerPacker]

1 hour ago, drowland said:

If Trump wants to honor the names of traitors he should just name his bunker Fort Lee.  Or better yet, name it Fort Flynn.

Dude's a narcissist.  Fort Trump.

[Mr. Sinister]

Fort Stormy 

[PokerPacker]

41 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Fort Stormy 

Any Fort in a Stormy.

[Barry.Randolphe]

First NASCAR casualty

 

 https://www.cbssports.com/nascar/news/nascar-driver-ray-ciccarelli-says-hes-leaving-at-end-of-the-season-citing-disagreement-with-flag/

 

Quote

Well its been a fun ride and dream come true but if this is the direction Nascar is headed we will not participate after 2020 season is over , i don't believe in kneeling during Anthem nor taken ppl right to fly what ever flag they love. I could care less about the Confederate Flag but there are ppl that do and it doesn't make them a racist all you are doing is f---ing one group to cater to another and i ain't spend the money we are to participate in any political BS!! So everything is for SALE!!

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

 

[Mr. Sinister]

Hope that Wallace guy doesn't have any "accidents " on the track soon.

[Jumbo]

13 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

That dude ain't gonna make it, lol. NASCAR is the last hill to defend for good ol' boys. Once black and brown people take that hill, it's all over

 

They defend it to the death

 

i actually think we may be seeing the a genuine beginning of a really elevated move to change that side of nascar

 

(this is a post i wrote early today but forgot to post it and it turned out i was (surprisingly) right---big move to ban it (sad it took this long)

[PCS]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

[wrilbo67]

1 hour ago, Jumbo said:

 

i actually think we may be seeing the a genuine beginning of a really elevated move to change that side of nascar

 

(this is a post i wrote early today but forgot to post it and it turned out i was (surprisingly) right---big move to ban it (sad it took this long)

I think you’re right honestly. NASCAR had a hipster honeymoon ~15 years ago but since then it’s ratings have basically halved. They know there’s far more to gain by taking a stand than there is to lose here.

 

What’s funny is that this entire cancel culture is basically the republican playbook from 15 years ago. Just go look up how gay marriage was discussed leading up to the ‘04 election, or what Bill OReilly did to professor Ward Churchill and Ludacris/Pepsi in 2005.

[Llevron]

12 minutes ago, wrilbo67 said:

What’s funny is that this entire cancel culture is basically the republican playbook from 15 years ago. 

Republicans had been ahead of the game politically (as far as taking and using power I mean) for as long as I could remember up until now. But the internet and specifically social media really leveled the playing field I think. 
 

I do wonder how much money NASCAR stands to lose with this move. I don’t see how this doesn’t alienate their fans. 

[visionary]

Love the Benedict Arnold reference that guy makes in the parody video.

 

Hopefully NASCAR won’t reverse themselves later.

[visionary]

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Re: Columbus from the civil unrest thread.

 

People do what people do. There are very few people who are perfectly just or perfectly evil. Trying to measure a historical persons soul by tomorrow’s standards seems a bit foolish to me... but statue or no statue, history is history, good and bad, both the good and bad should be exposed. So maybe tearing down his statue is exposing the bad.

Edited June 11, 2020 by CousinsCowgirl84

[justice98]

I guess we're all supposed to praise NASCAR for this flag move, and it is a positive move, but damned if it we let people off the hook too easily.  None of these statements acknowledge why it took so long, and why the previous pre-George Floyd stance was that these Confederate monuments and flags were deemed perfectly acceptable. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

1 minute ago, justice98 said:

I guess we're all supposed to praise NASCAR for this flag move, and it is a positive move, but damned if it we let people off the hook too easily.  None of these statements acknowledge why it took so long, and why the previous pre-George Floyd stance was that these Confederate monuments and flags were deemed perfectly acceptable. 

 

Sorta...NASCAR tried to ban the flag after the Charleston church shooting in 2015 but the fanbase went nuts, so they stood down.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

1 minute ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Sorta...NASCAR tried to ban the flag after the Charleston church shooting in 2015 but the fanbase went nuts, so they stood down.

I wondered why I had a feeling of dejavu...

[Larry]

16 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

People do what people do. There are very few people who are perfectly just or perfectly evil. Trying to measure a historical persons soul by tomorrow’s standards seems a bit foolish to me... but statue or no statue, history is history, good and bad, both the good and bad should be exposed. So maybe tearing down his statue is exposing the bad.

 

I do think that it's possible (easy?) to go to far.  To look back at historical figures and declare that they aren't saints by today's standards.  

 

OK, so Lincoln didn't wand black people to marry his daughter, and he didn't want to integrate the Union Army.  

 

But my judgement on Lincoln is that he moved the nation in the right direction.  No, he didn't move it all the way to perfection.  But the right direction.  (And a whole lot of people can't even manage to do that.)  

 

Now, back on topic?  Those Confederates?  Sorry.  Slavery was wrong back then, too.  So was attempting to destroy the United States.  It's not a case of "well, they were good people, but if we apply today's standards, we find some problems."  They were on the wrong side back then.  And I'm not aware of any "well, they weren't perfect, but their good outweighs the imperfections."  They were on the wrong side then.  They've been honored by people who wanted to promote more recent wrongs, and are defended by people who want to perpetuate those wrongs today.  

 

And the folks honoring them aren't honoring them despite the Confederacy, they're honoring them because of it.  

 

The "Confederate flag" has never once been on the right side of any issue.  There is no redeeming good side that outweighs those pesky imperfections.  

 

9 minutes ago, justice98 said:

I guess we're all supposed to praise NASCAR for this flag move, and it is a positive move, but damned if it we let people off the hook too easily.  None of these statements acknowledge why it took so long, and why the previous pre-George Floyd stance was that these Confederate monuments and flags were deemed perfectly acceptable. 

 

When somebody does the right thing, 50 years late, I don't switch to attacking them for what they did last year.  I praise them for doing the right thing.  

 

It's part of the healing process.  

 

(And, if they do the right thing, and people keep attacking them anyway?  Good luck trying to convince somebody else to do the right thing.)  

Edited June 11, 2020 by Larry

[justice98]

Just now, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Sorta...NASCAR tried to ban the flag after the Charleston church shooting in 2015 but the fanbase went nuts, so they stood down.

 

Point taken.  But even still, 2015 ain't a whole lot better given NASCAR's been around for 70 years.  Lord knows how much longer they woulda gone with it had George Floyd not been killed. 

[Jumbo]

not that this guy is that important at all, but he's representative of a fair slice of "nascar fan culture" and drivers/crew/etc. from my exposure and what a fair amount of credible information exists to suggest the same (though my call is it's still a minority of that demographic)

 

 (pic below is Homestead-Miami Speedway during the NASCAR Cup Series Ford EcoBoost 400 in 2018.)

 

NASCAR truck racer Ray Ciccarelli says he's quitting after Confederate flag ban

 

 

Quote

 

On Wednesday, NASCAR made a huge announcement regarding the Confederate flag. Then, driver Ray Ciccarelli made an announcement of his own.

Ciccarelli is a 50-year-old racer. He currently participates in the NASCAR Gander RV & Outdoors Truck Series, driving the No. 49 Chevrolet Silverado for CMI Motorsports. Not much longer, it would appear.

 

On Wednesday, NASCAR announced that it was banning the flying of Confederate flags at its races. Also Wednesday, Ciccarelli shared a message on his Facebook page indicating he will quit racing after the 2020 season:

 

“Well its been a fun ride and dream come true but if this is the direction Nascar is headed we will not participate after 2020 season is over, i don’t believe in kneeling during Anthem nor taken ppl right to fly what ever flag they love. I could care less about the Confederate Flag but there are ppl that do and it doesn’t make them a racist all you are doing is f****** one group to cater to another and i ain’t spend the money we are to participate in any political BS!! So everything is for SALE!! Sarah Ciccarelli”

 

Out of 18 career races on the NASCAR Gander RV & Outdoors Truck Series, Ciccarelli has placed in the top 10 once.

 

To quote Ciccarelli, “The direction NASCAR is headed” is a big deal on this day. The professional racing league announced it will from this moment forward ban the Confederate flag at its events. If you’ve ever been to a race or seen one on television, you know this is a big deal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[justice98]

50 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

When somebody does the right thing, 50 years late, I don't switch to attacking them for what they did last year.  I praise them for doing the right thing.  

 

It's part of the healing process.  

 

(And, if they do the right thing, and people keep attacking them anyway?  Good luck trying to convince somebody else to do the right thing.)  

 

I'm not as easily placated by the bare minimum.  Where your heart is matters, and why you're doing it matter.  When you been doing something for 70 years, "my bad, ignore everything that happened" isn't gonna cut it.  Except, they couldn't even muster a "my bad".  Their statement fit in a damn tweet.  It's not "attacking" to want to know what someone's (or in this case, a corporation's) thought process has been. 

Edited June 11, 2020 by justice98

[Larry]

27 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

Well its been a fun ride and dream come true but if this is the direction Nascar is headed we will not participate after 2020 season is over, i don’t believe in kneeling during Anthem nor taken ppl right to fly what ever flag they love. I could care less about the Confederate Flag but there are ppl that do and it doesn’t make them a racist all you are doing is f****** one group to cater to another and i ain’t spend the money we are to participate in any political BS!! So everything is for SALE!! Sarah Ciccarelli

 

So.  

 

Kaepernick kneeling?  Don't approve, shouldn't be allowed.  

 

"Confederate flag"?  You're trying to take away people's rights to express themselves.  

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

9 hours ago, Llevron said:

Republicans had been ahead of the game politically (as far as taking and using power I mean) for as long as I could remember up until now. But the internet and specifically social media really leveled the playing field I think. 
 

I do wonder how much money NASCAR stands to lose with this move. I don’t see how this doesn’t alienate their fans. 

 

I'm not a fan, but when you live in Charlotte or surrounding areas (I live about 6-7 minutes from the Charlotte Motor Speedway) it's hard not to follow whats going on.  Their attendance along with television views has taken a nose dive the past 5-6 years.  Most is attributed to the retirements of a lot of drivers that were bringing in viewership and packing the seats at the tracks.

 

They should have done this decades ago.  That aside, right now there are no fans in attendance, so the part of their fanbase that is racist can't really boycott anything in regards to not attending the race.  They can choose to not watch it on TV, but NASCAR already has their TV deal in place that goes through 2024 (per an article I read). 

 

When fans can finally attend races in the future, I imagine that there will be a bunch of confederate flags flying in the parking/camp ground areas where they tailgate, I seriously doubt they will police that and make them remove them.  I've tailgated a bunch of races years ago with some friends that were going to the race (then went home once the race started), and I think I saw maybe 2 event staffers from 7am to 3-4pm, one police car drive by.  

Edited June 11, 2020 by Dont Taze Me Bro

[PleaseBlitz]

 

1 hour ago, Jumbo said:

NASCAR truck racer Ray Ciccarelli says he's quitting after Confederate flag ban

 

Does this mean that liberals get NASCAR in the Great Divorce?  I did not see that coming.  

[Corcaigh]

People like to fly flags and as a 'peace offering' maybe NASCAR can swap out the banned Confederate Flags for another southern flag ... say from Mexico.