Nazis showing up at places uninvited.

[Larry]

4 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

Another thought:  Trump holds his rallies in mostly conservative areas.  Seems counter to the alt-right rallies.

 

Going into enemy territory for the purpose of trying to provoke them into attacking you requires being willing to take a punch. 

[DogofWar1]

Andy Ngo is a punk **** propagandist for Nazis.

 

That is all.

 

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

[No Excuses]

2 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

I can see different messages, here. Not sure which one(s) you're actually saying. 

 

Are you saying "therefore it's the Nazis fault, cause they were going out of their way to get 'attacked'"?

 

Or "They're going to Portland because they've learned that Portland will do what the Nazis want, and Portland needs to be less inviting (by not giving them what they want)"?

 

I am saying both. There is a larger context to what is happening in Portland.

 

(1) The city and several of its establishments have been repeatedly targeted over the past two years by violent right wing gangs. They have specifically targeted bars and restaurants, Cider Riot being a popular one because it has a Jewish owner and is the local hangout spot for progressive groups. They’ve been doing this to incite patrons and local progressive groups to turn violent. 

 

There was finally a felony riot charge against one of the main organizers for Patriot Prayer, which has been the leading group behind Portland right wing rallies: https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2019/08/joey-gibson-faces-charges-in-fight-at-ne-portlands-cider-riot-preparing-to-turn-self-in.html

 

(2) As their antics have escalated and the city has been abysmal in responding to what is now essentially a bimonthly march of neo-Nazis and all other forms of violent right wing gangs in the city, local progressive groups have taken to different forms of counter-protest. Most of them just dance and play music, one of them has decided that violence and intimidation is answered with violence. 

[twa]

20 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

 

Antifa is purely reactionary. Typically, when areas and communities are threatened by outsiders coming in specifically for the purpose of inciting violence and spreading fear, a counter-group that engages them directly is likely to form. 

 

It is not excusing them but it’s human nature and the weekend Nazis know this.

 

The Klan felt they were purely reactionary as well.

 

[No Excuses]

The Neo-Nazis are threatening Portland with monthly protests unless it deems “Antifa a domestic terrorist group”, which it can’t.

 

https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2019/08/17/portland-mayor-responds-to-right-wing-organizers-threat-of-monthly-protests-we-do-not-want-him-here-in-my-city-period/

 

It’s basically outsiders telling Portland residents that unless you do what we say (which you can’t legally), we will incite violence and threaten you at least once a month. 

 

None of this would be portrayed as “aww poor right wingers” if gangs of black men or Muslim men were going into white, conservative communities, inciting hatred and spreading fear while making nonsense demands. In fact, I suspect there would be a lot of support for citizens taking matters in their own hands and possibly exercising their second amendment rights. 

6 minutes ago, twa said:

 

The Klan felt they were purely reactionary as well.

 

 

Yes, violent right wing bigots and Neo-Nazis are the same as black civil rights activists. 

 

Defending racist clowns that even right wing militias are disowning probably isn’t how you want to spend your Sunday but go for it. 

Edited August 18, 2019 by No Excuses

[Springfield]

I mean I wasn’t gonna comment about the whole Klan thing cause it seemed like a super silly comment.

[No Excuses]

2 minutes ago, Springfield said:

I mean I wasn’t gonna comment about the whole Klan thing cause it seemed like a super silly comment.

 

Making absurdly dumb analogies is how right wingers come to grips with the rot in their movement.

 

"Antifa are terrorists" is nothing more than a whataboutism to play down the rising threat of white nationalists throughout the country and turn it into a "both sides" issue, when every statistical point tells you that it isn't.

[Llevron]

It takes a *special kind of person to defend the Klan. 

 

*Racist usually. Idiot surely. 

Edited August 18, 2019 by Llevron

[Springfield]

35 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

Making absurdly dumb analogies is how right wingers come to grips with the rot in their movement.

 

"Antifa are terrorists" is nothing more than a whataboutism to play down the rising threat of white nationalists throughout the country and turn it into a "both sides" issue, when every statistical point tells you that it isn't.

 

My favorite response to “Antifa are terrorists” is “prove it”.

[c slag]

8 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

My favorite response to “Antifa are terrorists” is “prove it”.

At this point the right wingers open their bibles and quote some random verse out of it as "proof "

[Larry]

28 minutes ago, Llevron said:

It takes a *special kind of person to defend the Klan. 

 

*Racist usually. Idiot surely. 

 

Just observing, I don't think I've seen anybody defend the Klan. 

 

I'm absolutely certain that he will, given any excuse at all. He just hasn't done so on this page of this thread. 

 

What he did do was to poke a hole in the assertion that it's ok to organize violent extremist groups if a group thinks they've been provoked. His argument was to cite the Klan as an example of a group that is morally wrong. 

[Destino]

1 hour ago, Springfield said:

@No Excuses is right.

 

The alt-right playbook is to mobilize in liberal areas in hopes of drawing controversy.  

 

The problem is that they have every right to do that.  Going into an area and protesting for something that isn’t popular is an essential aspect of free speech.  If we let the government start choosing which controversial issue is allowed, and which is “inciting” violence, we’d be handing the government a great deal of power.  Imagine if Trump had that power right now.  Think he’d ban the racists or ANTIFA?  I bet he’d say BLM is inciting violence too, and ban that.  

 

These racist goons don’t have the numbers to draw much attention to their poisonous bull****.  Their rallies, if unopposed, look sad and small most of the time.  Barely more than a handful of idiots gathered in a park.  The counter protests, which tend to be overwhelmingly larger, are what bring the energy and the press.  I understand wanting to punch some racists.  I imagine most decent people feel that way.  The problem is that this reaction doesn’t seem to make anything better, and in many ways helps the racists.  The optics are especially bad when the ANTIFA protestors widely outnumber the racists and attack them.  

 

The most effective approach seems to be identifying them and then outting them publicly as racists.  Real world consequences.  The government has to provide these idiots with equal protection, but there is no protection against people simply telling the truth.  None from their employers firing them over it either.  

[Larry]

And you have to keep in mind. Getting punched is what they want. 

 

Old joke from from high school. What's the difference between a masochist and a sadist?  

 

A masochist says "Hit me!  Hit me!"  A sadist says "No". 

[No Excuses]

38 minutes ago, Destino said:

The problem is that they have every right to do that.  Going into an area and protesting for something that isn’t popular is an essential aspect of free speech.

 

If this was it, we wouldn’t have much of an issue. But these groups are going in there with the purpose of incitement and rioting and they openly say it. And it’s not just a handful of guys, but typically in the hundreds or thousands. The largest rally in Portland so far was 3000, yesterday was close to 1200.

 

Joey Gibson and several others are facing felonies because of this, which is I think the first direct LE action against these people:

 

https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2019/08/16/after-nearly-three-years-of-orchestrating-violent-rallies-patriot-prayer-leader-joey-gibson-turns-himself-in-on-felony-riot-charge/

 

We are pretty much at the point that these are no longer just protests but an ongoing harassment campaign that is costing Portland residents millions of dollars. 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2019 by No Excuses

[Renegade7]

@No Excuses nails it again, this is a perfect example of using our tolerance of intolerance against us.  You can't yell fire in a theater, talk about killing an elected official, or try to instigate a violent overthrow of our government in this country, so while we have Free Speech, we definitely have decided there's a line.  Now where we move this line is a true test of the American Experiment, but lets start with acknowledging that we do have a line.

[twa]

 

[Destino]

30 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

If this was it, we wouldn’t have much of an issue. But these groups are going in there with the purpose of incitement and rioting and they openly say it.

I haven't seen random rioting, but I might have missed it.  I was under the impression that the people they are fighting were ANTIFA.  ANTIFA also openly admit that they intend to start a fight.  Are you saying that if counter protestors didn't show up the proud boys or patriot prayer would just start tearing up the town?  If that's true, than it would be even more useful to stay away from them.  The optics would be terrible for them, and they'd get smashed by police.

 

 

Quote

And it’s not just a handful of guys, but typically in the hundreds or thousands. The largest rally in Portland so far was 3000, yesterday was close to 1200.

Those numbers are tiny compared to the crowds protesting against what these white nationalists.  You could draw more people than that to a public park just by offering free donuts and advertising it far enough in advance.   

 

 

Quote

Joey Gibson and several others are facing felonies because of this, which is I think the first direct LE action against these people:

 

https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2019/08/16/after-nearly-three-years-of-orchestrating-violent-rallies-patriot-prayer-leader-joey-gibson-turns-himself-in-on-felony-riot-charge/

I'm not going to shed a tear for this guy.  If they have the evidence to convict him, more power to them. 

[Larry]

56 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

But these groups are going in there with the purpose of incitement and rioting and they openly say it. 

 

If you can prove (I'd say "probable cause") that they're pre-planning acts of violence, then they're terrorists, and the government gains the power to do lots of things. Infiltration. Wiretaps. FISA. Maybe RICO, for all I know. 

 

I would assume they're smart enough not to go there. To keep there conversation to "being prepared to defend ourselves". But then, they are Nazis. And Trump supporters. So maybe I'm giving them too much credit. 

 

And if you can prove they're doing it, grab em all, haul em into federal court, and make em all go away. 

[visionary]

 

[No Excuses]

6 hours ago, Destino said:

haven't seen random rioting, but I might have missed it.  I was under the impression that the people they are fighting were ANTIFA.  ANTIFA also openly admit that they intend to start a fight.  Are you saying that if counter protestors didn't show up the proud boys or patriot prayer would just start tearing up the town?  If that's true, than it would be even more useful to stay away from them.  The optics would be terrible for them, and they'd get smashed by police.

 

 

They have done rioting in Portland trying to incite fights, which is what the charges against Gibson and six others are for. There should probably be more charges against other organizers and it wouldn’t be surprising that from this point we see them.

 

They come with the intent of starting violence and their internal chat logs and social media posts make that explicitly clear. 

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/proud-boys-chat-logs-premeditate-rally-violence-in-leaked-chats_n_5ce1e231e4b00e035b928683

 

They are getting away with being painted as just protestors so far because the threat of violent white nationalism hasn’t been taken seriously enough until perhaps the past two weeks.

6 hours ago, Larry said:

I would assume they're smart enough not to go there. To keep there conversation to "being prepared to defend ourselves". But then, they are Nazis. And Trump supporters. So maybe I'm giving them too much credit. 

 

Their leaked internal chat logs that I posted above reveal that they explicitly discuss violence internally but ask members to only talk about violence openly in terms of defense. 

 

They aren’t that bright, several members still openly talk about committing acts of violence on social media.

[TradeTheBeal!]

This is fun.

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/pacifica-high-school-students-sang-nazi-song-and-gave-hitler-salute

[Larry]

And y'all thought the GOP was doomed because of the youth vote.  

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

And y'all thought the GOP was doomed because of the youth vote.  

Overract much?  You can find article after article showing how Millenials is the most liberal generation ever rivaled only by Gen Z.  That doesnt mean every single one will be a democrat or that none if them have MAGA hats.  Having two generations in a row skew hard to left is absolutely a bad omen for the GOP, that's why they doing everything they can stop us from voting

[Larry]

16 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Overract much? 

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Cooked Crack