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Newsweek: Alex Jones and Other Conservatives Call For Civil War Against Liberals


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Learn to enjoy the taste of human flesh.

 

~Barf

5 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

 

How do you predict and prepare for something like a continent-wide crop failure?

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Bang said:

Learn to enjoy the taste of human flesh.

 

That's what the Anasazi were reduced to as their society collapsed.  Same for countless other societies during collapses.

 

We tend to think we're a lot better and smarter than people from the past, but the truth is we're not.  People are people and they behave according to the incentives of their environments and this has always been and always will be the case.

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1 hour ago, twa said:

 

Nothing gets libtards riled up more than actually paying federal taxes rather than keeping them at home.  :evil:

It's not paying federal taxes that gets me riled up. It's what they are used to do.  This tax plan was calculated to let the wealthiest people this planet has ever created keep more of that wealth while punishing the "coasts" that vote against Trump. It also creates more debt.  

 

If this was to get more people health care, build infrastructure, a basic income.  I could get behind some of that.  Not this BS.  

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15 hours ago, Hersh said:

Anecdotal but not in an all consuming political bubble.

 

I think it'd surprise you to see just how small the proportion of the partisan population typically is during revolutions and civil wars.  Take the American Revolution for example, estimates put percentages of partisans at anywhere from a third to 40% Patriot, about 20% Tory, and up to half the population as checked out and non partisan.

 

I think that's probably the norm and what we could expect in the event of another civil war.  Maybe like 20-25% partisan support for each side at the most, and at least half the country checked out.  Participation in martial operations would be way less--probably less than 1% for each side, but increase if it were a long conflict.  I don't think we can use service rates in older conflicts like the American Revolution and Civil War as a guide for what to expect in a new war because of how much bigger our population is today.  They were probably closer to 10% participation in fighting.  1% participation for each side today would be a massive conflict.  If we lost 2.5% of our population in six years today like we did during the Civil War, that would be like 8 million dead.  It'd be one of the worst wars in history.

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35 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Militias and arms are not inherently Right wing, nor antithetical to Left wing politics.  Hell, you could organize militias and still control arms, not that gun control is the defining issue of Left wing politics.

 

Militias and guns are tools that anyone can use.

 

 

Uh huh... in the US almost all the militias are right wing.

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5 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Certainly the left could move toward the right...

 

No, if anything, the Left will move Left.  But doing so does not preclude forming militancy.  It makes it all but certain.

 

Using a gun and forming a militia is not inherently Right Wing.  Anyone can do so, no matter their political beliefs.  They are apolitical tools.

 

The reason we haven't seen a militant Left form before is because of widespread prosperity and faith in the functionality and fairness of our government and electoral system.

 

What do you think is going to happen as those things erode?  Or do you think that they're going to get better instead of continuing to get worse?

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7 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Using a gun and forming a militia is not inherently Right Wing.  Anyone can do so, no matter their political beliefs.  They are apolitical tools

 

In the US almost all of the “militia” groups are right wing..... the left forming a milita would be moving toward the right.

 

Quote

What do you think is going to happen as those things erode?  Or do you think that they're going to get better instead of continuing to get worse?

 

Political fairness isn’t a staple of the left, in fact it’s probably quite the opposite... in the extremes.... democratic socialism turns into just socialism most of the time...

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2 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

In the US almost all of the “militia” groups are right wing..... the left forming a milita would be moving toward the right. 

 

You're missing my point.  When's the last time you heard of a gun voting Republican?  Of watching Fox News and putting on a MAGA hat?

 

If a Left winger wants to institute universal healthcare and basic income and create a safety net and the only way for them to do that is to pick up a gun and shoot a Right winger whose blocking them, then doing so doesn't suddenly mean they'll become Right wingers who take all of the opposite positions.  Their politics haven't changed, what's changed is their militancy.

 

The reason that almost all of the militias in the US right now are Right wing is because they've already started militarizing.  They have a significant head start on the Left.  The Left hasn't felt the incentive to militarize yet, because prosperity has been fairly broad and they still largely believe in our system of government.

 

However those two things are eroding.  This will birth militancy on the Left.  Do you think that those two things will stop eroding and reverse course?  I don't.

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In the first 20 years of the 21st century, the conservative candidate has lost the popular vote count 4 out of 5 times, yet the Conservative party will have governed for 60% of the time.

 

This is the worst democratic system in the entire developed world, which consistently does not reflect the values of the majority and the social sentiment of most of its people. Yes, this is how the system is set up, but for alll the whining about bias and unfairness from the right, they have benefited from a governing system that caters primarily to a white, rural Christian minority. They pay the least into our public budget and receive the most in terms of policy and judicial outcomes.

 

It’s a crap system. You either split the country or the left needs to seriously start advocating for a decentralized federal government, so we can pay more taxes directly to our state and local governments. It doesn’t solve policy inaction on major issues like healthcare and climate change, but the last thing I want to do is pay into an infrastructure bill for road constructions in bum**** Missouri.

1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

However those two things are eroding.  This will birth militancy on the Left.  Do you think that those two things will stop eroding and reverse course?  I don't.

 

If you count Anti-Fascist groups around the country as militant, which they most certainly are, there is already a militant left. 

 

They aren’t a bunch of goobers who cosplay as paramilitary troopers, but they show up at every right wing militant event in major cities and are quite comfortable with engaging in violence. 

 

I think recently in Portland, there was an event where you had left and right wing militants, both armed to the teeth, protesting and antagonizing each other. I think we are not too far away from some of these skirmishes turning into a blood bath.

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10 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

It’s a crap system. You either split the country or the left needs to seriously start advocating for a decentralized federal government, so we can pay more taxes directly to our state and local governments. It doesn’t solve policy inaction on major issues like healthcare and climate change, but the last thing I want to do is pay into an infrastructure bill for road constructions in bum**** Missouri. 

 

You've identified an unequal power dynamic that has been largely true of the United State's political system since the founding.  Our political system was designed to give Southern Whites disproportionate power.  It was built into the constitution.  That disproportionate power spread to the rural Midwest and West, and the disproportion will continue to grow as the population continues to urbanize.

 

There is no chance that this happens peacefully man.  I'm with you in that I think your solution is the best outcome, but it's utopian.  There is no chance of a peaceful dissolution of the Union.  The distribution of wealth and economic and military power is too uneven.  If you were a leader facing becoming an impoverished nation and had control of the military power to prevent it, would you let it happen?

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Hey, take it down a notch Fidel.  Sharing mean memes on Twitter is a loooong way from armed conflict.  Trump will fade away soon enough, and somebody else, either right or left, will step in to lower the temperature.  

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3 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

Hey, take it down a notch Fidel.  Sharing mean memes on Twitter is a loooong way from armed conflict.  Trump will fade away soon enough, and somebody else, either right or left, will step in to lower the temperature.  

 

Why do you think that this is true?

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6 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

Hey, take it down a notch Fidel.  Sharing mean memes on Twitter is a loooong way from armed conflict.  Trump will fade away soon enough, and somebody else, either right or left, will step in to lower the temperature.  

I hope so. I do worry that so much of the right seems so happy with Trump and the Trumpian way of thinking/acting. Echo chamber brainwashing does make me nervous.

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1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

No, if anything, the Left will move Left.  But doing so does not preclude forming militancy.  It makes it all but certain.

 

Using a gun and forming a militia is not inherently Right Wing.  Anyone can do so, no matter their political beliefs.  They are apolitical tools.

 

The reason we haven't seen a militant Left form before is because of widespread prosperity and faith in the functionality and fairness of our government and electoral system.

 

What do you think is going to happen as those things erode?  Or do you think that they're going to get better instead of continuing to get worse?

Move far enough enough left and you will run into those who moved far enough right.

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31 minutes ago, nonniey said:

Move far enough enough left and you will run into those who moved far enough right. 

 

You'd get conflict, not accord.  Using the same tactics doesn't mean your objectives will harmonize.  It would be an irreconcilable conflict instead.

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We have to remember too, Trump is a fool.  I imagine in the future they will run a Trumpian candidate policy-wise but without the surface level abrasiveness.  Imagine how much more could and would be accomplished behind closed doors if Trump didn't act like a moron just about every step of the way.

 

Trump has already been normalized by the right-wing, there is little reason to think they will go backwards, until the American voters force it, that is the reason the Democratic party is being forcefully readjusted.

 

The voters have to demand the change.

 

 

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I'm with @Hersh in thinking this whole topic about civil war is sort of silly.  The GOP is going to die or have to massively reinvent itself in the near future, just due to demographic shifts, their base dying off and not being replaced, and the forthcoming massive generation not generally being on board with any of their positions.  The GOP itself knew it was in trouble in 2012 and the underlying facts have not changed.  The GOP is holding on because it's older base of evangelicals vote more than any other demographic, combined with political gerrymandering/Senate vote distribution, voter suppression and help from foreign interference.  Trumpism is the last, terrible death rattle of tea party republicanism, and it's going to have the effect of pushing the country to the left.  

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The GOP is shedding voters, but not quick enough yet for them to do any soul searching.  Right now they can counter their dwindling numbers with methods like gerrymandering and voter suppression.  Eventually even those won't be enough but for now they will just use those and try to get as many laws changed to counter balance continually being in the minority.


I imagine in maybe 50 years the GOP will be a different party, but the Democratic party likely will be too and a lot of us, whoever is still alive, might even be a Republican at that point.

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1 hour ago, Dan T. said:

Hey, take it down a notch Fidel.  Sharing mean memes on Twitter is a loooong way from armed conflict.  Trump will fade away soon enough, and somebody else, either right or left, will step in to lower the temperature.  

 

Hope for the best.

 

Plan for the worst.

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