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ESPN.com: Kirk Cousins contract talks with Redskins on positive track


TK

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Totally over all this. Let's pay the Man and be done with it.  Nothing more and nothing

less.  He's a keeper.  We stuck gold years ago when he was drafted.  If Cousins keeps developing, he's going to be a badass for years to come.  Pay the man and let's get on with winning when we are supposed to, and games we shouldn't.  #redskins

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5 hours ago, pcbothwel said:

While I completely agree that Kirk has leverage, we should examine our own options as well. If he wants Rodgers money, then he deserves when you account for leverage. But if he wants to be paid as much as Luck (or more), then forget it...

 

Besides our internal options, here is a list of QB's that will be available next year with NO franchise tag:

1) Brees

2) Jimmy G

3) Bradford

4) Alex Smith (Will certainly be cut with his contract and Mahomes)

5) Glennon (No way they pay him 16M with Mitch)

 

With our offense, I have no doubt that most of the guys on that list would give us 3500 yards and 65% completion. It's not ideal, but we shouldnt pretend that we have NO options.

 

We also have to remember the QB class next year is ridiculous. Darnold, Allen, Rosen, and Jackson are all legit prospects. Between those guys and Garapolo, the 49ers, Browns, and Jets might find other avenues... combine that with even a slight regression from Kirk due to performance and/or less scoring due to improved defense/running game, and he's looking at Osweiler money.

 

I was really hoping someone else had responded to this so I didn't have to - but it looks like not. So, here we go:

 

As for the FAs you listed, let's go through them:

Brees - If they release him, he will be 39 and clearly on the wrong side of his career, and not even wanted by the team he won a SB with! Not to mention he will not take veteran minimum. It will takes close to the money Cousins is already making. BTW: Brees is my favorite non-Redskins player. I wanted him here when he was released from SD. But not now.

Jimmy G. 0 Matt Cassell - enough said.

Bradford - Please, this guy wasn't good when he was supposed to be great. He has streaks of decent play but then goes very cold. Not to mention this will be his 4 team in 5 years!

Alex Smith - The guy is the prototypical game manager and can't throw more than 25 yards There is a reason Reid is moving on.

Glennon - He had one season of success and been basically useless since.

 

Brees is the only one on that list that is more talented than Cousins (at least at this point), but he is a maybe 2 yr rental, if that. Sorry but all those options are a disaster. I would honestly go with McCoy before any one of those options. Not advocating that. Just in reference to the list above.

 

As for drafting a QB - Let's say we pick somewhere close to where we did this year - around 15 to 20. How many of those great QBs do you think will be left? I can tell you now there will be at least 4 QB needy teams. So that means either trading up or taking whoever is left over. How is that a good plan?

 

So the plan is to blow this whole thing up and roll the dice with either a veteran that is either seriously old or has never really had much success, or a college QB that's the left overs unless we mortgage the next few drafts for one, and even then there are no guarantees on these guys  - didn't we try that recently? I could have sworn we did. Yes, there are choices. But they are the consolation prize to the point they are mostly a wing and a prayer.

 

We have a guy in house that knows the system, has a good rapport with the HC and players and based on his own words wants to be here - I put much more faith in his words than a few reporters. The difference in Rogers and Luck money is literally a few $M. They need to get Kirk signed. Making a different decision over a few $M for a QB is just not a good plan at all.

 

I have said all along I think it gets done at the deadline and it will be for just at or above Luck money. And it should be. It's the right thing to do from both sides. Kirk gets some security and consistency (doesn't have to learn a new Off) and the team can stop being one of those "needs a QB" teams during the offseason finally and focus on building the team around him. .

 

 

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1 hour ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Just when I thought the KC talk had subsided...TK tosses a box filled with viles of Kirk crack on the ES floor. :ols:

 

Bruce is an idiot.  Hopefully Dan straightens him out.  I ain't holding my breath.

If Bruce is an idiot, what is Dan? ???

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Listening to Chris Russell last night.  He basically combined what his source told him and added his subjective take to it.  He more or less said Danny recognizes the PR issue of letting Kirk go.  So he's kicked in to help negotiate the deal.  Russell adds his editorial of more or less Bruce can't get it done because his niche is working out team friendly deals and will likely stubbornly cling to that approach even if it kills a potential deal with Kirk.  So Russell doesn't think Bruce could get it done.  Conversely, Danny is unlikely to take that approach so his involvement increases the odds a deal gets done.  

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7 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

If the Skins sign Cousins; they will get ripped for over paying him...and how they should have signed him for much less last year.

 

You can take that to the bank!

Well they don't have to overpay for him, they just have to give him fair market value.  They haven't even offered that to him yet and pretty much everyone who is in the know says if he is offered fair market value he will accept the offer.

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10 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

If the Skins sign Cousins; they will get ripped for over paying him...and how they should have signed him for much less last year.

 

You can take that to the bank!

 

And they should.  But I dont really care if they get ripped or not.  What other people say doesn't get me too worked up.  

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14 hours ago, pcbothwel said:

While I completely agree that Kirk has leverage, we should examine our own options as well. If he wants Rodgers money, then he deserves when you account for leverage. But if he wants to be paid as much as Luck (or more), then forget it...

 

Besides our internal options, here is a list of QB's that will be available next year with NO franchise tag:

1) Brees

2) Jimmy G

3) Bradford

4) Alex Smith (Will certainly be cut with his contract and Mahomes)

5) Glennon (No way they pay him 16M with Mitch)

 

With our offense, I have no doubt that most of the guys on that list would give us 3500 yards and 65% completion. It's not ideal, but we shouldnt pretend that we have NO options.

 

We also have to remember the QB class next year is ridiculous. Darnold, Allen, Rosen, and Jackson are all legit prospects. Between those guys and Garapolo, the 49ers, Browns, and Jets might find other avenues... combine that with even a slight regression from Kirk due to performance and/or less scoring due to improved defense/running game, and he's looking at Osweiler money.

So let me get this straight.  You would consider taking Jimmy G, Bradford, Alex Smith or Glennon over Cousins?  Even Brees being 39 next year?  Also where exactly do you think this team will be if we "only" had a QB that was capable of 3500 yards.  in other words how many games do we win last year with 3500 yards passing from Cousins.  5 maybe 6?  And last question as a redskins fan you would once again role the dice on another QB instead of a proven product that we drafted like we have been so damn successful in QBs in the past doing this.

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26 minutes ago, TheGreek1973 said:

So let me get this straight.  You would consider taking Jimmy G, Bradford, Alex Smith or Glennon over Cousins?  Even Brees being 39 next year?  Also where exactly do you think this team will be if we "only" had a QB that was capable of 3500 yards.  in other words how many games do we win last year with 3500 yards passing from Cousins.  5 maybe 6?  And last question as a redskins fan you would once again role the dice on another QB instead of a proven product that we drafted like we have been so damn successful in QBs in the past doing this.

 

You are very much mis-representing my post. I FAR prefer Cousins over 80-90% of the QBs in the league. I am simply outlining that if he ask to be paid Luck money, that we have recourse.

As my post mentioned, next offseason could get interesting with the elite QB prospects in the draft. The 49ers, Browns, and Jets are really the only teams that will be in the Cousins market. But if they draft Darnold, Allen, Rosen, etc... Cousins Market gets very shaky.

If he doesnt take Rodgers money, then what in the hell are we talking about? Im sorry, but people act like there is no way Cousins regresses. Look at the careers of some of the top 10 QB's: Eli, Rivers, Rodgers, Cam, etc. There are ups and downs for everyone, and Cousins has been on an up. 

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1 hour ago, pcbothwel said:

 

You are very much mis-representing my post. I FAR prefer Cousins over 80-90% of the QBs in the league. I am simply outlining that if he ask to be paid Luck money, that we have recourse.

As my post mentioned, next offseason could get interesting with the elite QB prospects in the draft. The 49ers, Browns, and Jets are really the only teams that will be in the Cousins market. But if they draft Darnold, Allen, Rosen, etc... Cousins Market gets very shaky.

If he doesnt take Rodgers money, then what in the hell are we talking about? Im sorry, but people act like there is no way Cousins regresses. Look at the careers of some of the top 10 QB's: Eli, Rivers, Rodgers, Cam, etc. There are ups and downs for everyone, and Cousins has been on an up. 

Im curious, since you think hes likely to regress, first, where are the ups and downs for Rogers and Rivers? Where did they regress?  Second, since when is Cam a top 10 QB? Because he had one good season?  Third, how can Eli regress, since that would mean he was good at one point?  Eli has always been trash in the regular season.  Fourth, if your point is that we shouldnt pay him like hes a good QB, because hes bound to have ups and downs, because many of the top 10 QBs have ups and downs, you've essentially hurt your own position.  Why should whether he regresses effect what we pay him, its normal and happens to the others.

 

Question for others on here:  Do you think that the reason all of the sudden talks between the Redskins and Kirk are "warming up", is due to them hearing that Carr and Stafford are getting closer to contracts, and wanting to preempt that before the price goes up?

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4 hours ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

If the Skins sign Cousins; they will get ripped for over paying him...and how they should have signed him for much less last year.

 

You can take that to the bank!

 

It would likely only be a small minority who do so IMO.  And those are likely the same minority who don't think Kirk should get paid big money including: Bayless, the First Take guys, C. Casserly, Bucky Brooks among others.  So many local-national media types have laid their stakes in the ground including what they think is reasonable to pay him.  The ones who want to pay him (the majority) realize it would be in the 24 million range a year with a good chunk of guaranteed money.  And if it goes down I'd presume its for that figure or perhaps slightly less than that.   

 

But by and large, if they get a deal done with Kirk IMO it will be very well received.  Russell's take on Danny's involvement stems from Danny being very aware that the Redskins currently look dysfunctional that they can't lock in their franchise QB.  Russell goes yeah Danny's likely aware of the perception out there that other teams have locked in their franchise QBs when needed to do so but the Redskins are oddly toying with botching it.    You got me if Russell is right but the idea that the Redskins look bad for not getting a deal done with Kirk has been made in different forms by a slew of people.  Those same people would look odd if that went back and criticized them for getting a deal done.

 

For me personally, if they get it done, I can't wait to watch Michael Silver.  Silver seems so smug on the thought that Kirk is 100% a 49er in 2018.  

 

 

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4 hours ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

If the Skins sign Cousins; they will get ripped for over paying him...and how they should have signed him for much less last year.

 

You can take that to the bank!

 

You cant worry about what other people think in this business. If you believe he is your franchise guy and you want to keep him then you are going to have to pay up at some point regardless. There is no doubt the guy is going to get PAID again next year regardless of what he does this year on the field. If the skins decide to transition him next year it's 28 mill. If they dont then he will cash in on the open market.  IF you believe he is the man than just pay him and be done with it. I am in the minority that thinks Kirk still needs a TON of work, especially int he red zone and in TD%. But there definitely isnt anything better on the roster right now. The draft is deep next year at QB. But even as well as rookies have played the past few seasons, drafting a QB is still always a crap shoot. And there is nothing that says if Kirk struggles you cant draft one anyways.  I think I would prefer they just sign him at this point and get it over with so we can move on to how we are going to keep Pryor and Brown next off season.

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2 hours ago, pcbothwel said:

 

You are very much mis-representing my post. I FAR prefer Cousins over 80-90% of the QBs in the league. I am simply outlining that if he ask to be paid Luck money, that we have recourse.

As my post mentioned, next offseason could get interesting with the elite QB prospects in the draft. The 49ers, Browns, and Jets are really the only teams that will be in the Cousins market. But if they draft Darnold, Allen, Rosen, etc... Cousins Market gets very shaky.

If he doesnt take Rodgers money, then what in the hell are we talking about? Im sorry, but people act like there is no way Cousins regresses. Look at the careers of some of the top 10 QB's: Eli, Rivers, Rodgers, Cam, etc. There are ups and downs for everyone, and Cousins has been on an up. 

First what is wrong with paying him Luck money?  Guaranteed wise we are almost there I believe Luck got less than 50 million guaranteed.  Last year's and this year's tag gets Cousins close.  Hell I would consider it lucky if he agrees for the same guaranteed and long term money as Luck.  And lets not forget the CAP goes up every year so a 5 year deal would look cheep if Cousins continues to improve (as I believe he would) in 2 years time.

 

Also yea there are some good prospects next year in the draft but no where close as a sure thing as Cousins if he hits the free agency.  Consider that you also have to spend a top 10 pick to get one, I bet you teams like the 49s will say it is better to get a known quantity as Cousins and keep my top 10 pick.  Its not about spending the big bucks on a QB but the overall % CAP hit the team takes.

 

What are you talking about Rodgers money, lets first offer something that is decent and then lets talk about Rodgers or Luck or whatever money.  As of now the Redskins haven't given him remotely top 15 money to even start the conversation.  And could Cousins regress?  Sure, tell me one QB that can't.  Eli for example has regressed big time IMO and so has Wilson for that matter, if he was ever that (because lets be real Seattle would not be Seattle without that D).  But Cousins is a hard worker, a family man and thinks of nothing more than getting better.  To me that is worth a lot.

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1 hour ago, TheGreek1973 said:

Also yea there are some good prospects next year in the draft but no where close as a sure thing as Cousins if he hits the free agency.  Consider that you also have to spend a top 10 pick to get one, I bet you teams like the 49s will say it is better to get a known quantity as Cousins and keep my top 10 pick.  Its not about spending the big bucks on a QB but the overall % CAP hit the team takes.

 

 

I agree with all of this. But the one thing is Cousins will be 30 next year. I know good QB's play well into their 30's now. But it does possibly limit the amount of time you have him. Lets not forget he will have to learn a new system as well. Unless of course he goes to San Fran. And Kirk didnt really excel in Kyles system like he has in Grudens. 

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Chris Russell

 

https://www.dchotread.com/2017/06/08/the-boss-is-back

 

After Schefter’s report, I was told that Snyder is indeed very involved in this negotiation and more, which we’ll address shortly. 

I know Redskins fans are going to think I am crazy, but this is a good thing for the Redskins. 

Does it guarantee a deal? Of course not. Does it give the deal a better chance of happening? Yes. 

Why? Because Snyder is not as fiscally conservative as Bruce Allen is and because Snyder is fearful of the franchise tag number that the Redskins are facing next off-season, if they can’t get a deal done. 

NFL sources tell DCHotRead.com that Snyder realizes that a $34.5 million cap hit and a total cash and cap pay-out of $78.36 million over three years, is preposterous and not a good move for the organization. 

As you may recall, Bruce Allen has said publicly that the Redskins could do this in 2018 if they cannot reach an agreement by this year’s deadline. 

That’s all fine and good. The problem is that paying Cousins an absurd number only makes the problem worse for everyone. 

It makes the organization look terrible, because it tells free-agents that you can do nearly everything right and still not get treated fairly or at least by fair NFL standards. It's also not good for Cousins because he would continue to not have long-term support from those that make the ultimate decisions.  

Snyder realizes that while Cousins is not the marketing machine that Robert Griffin III was, but he is their best option moving forward at quarterback and you can win with "Captain Kirk."  

It took him too long to reach this conclusion, but he apparently is there. Now he needs to make sure that Bruce Allen understands that the Redskins are in this position because of their previous mistakes and that they cannot absorb the terrible publicity and scorn by media and their customers/fans for another disaster. 

The problem for the Redskins? They’ve handled everything wrong, possibly up until now. They are in a position where they probably have to overpay not only what they want to pay Cousins, but also, in all likelihood, the established market.  

Meaning? Ideally, if they only want to pay Cousins 22-23 million dollars per year as a last ditch effort, they are not only going to have to pay that, but they are going to have to pay more than what most experts have established as the current market. 

If we use Cousins’ 2017 salary ($24 million) as a reasonable figure for an annual average value, the strong belief in the industry is that the Redskins are going to have to offer a minimum of $25 million per year on average and from what I’ve heard, it’s likely going to take more than that. 

That’s with $60 + million in fully guaranteed funds. 

Cousins is not being greedy. That’s Cousins getting paid what is fair based on the market, his performance and the scarcity at the position. 

If Cousins settles for $23.5 million and say $55 million in fully guaranteed dollars, he and agent Mike McCartney are doing the Redskins a huge favor and they are leaving money on the table. 

They have that right but it would seem odd to do that at this point when they are so close to what they desire, which is a true chance to determine his market value. They would already be giving up that opportunity and it would be highly unlikely they would make two huge concessions.  

Snyder can help end this game and do the right thing for everybody. It’s a gamble, but it’s a reasonable and calculated gamble that makes sense for the franchise. 

The Redskins should not have to pay Cousins the money that he wants and that he is worth by NFL standards, but they almost have no choice. They made their bed and lost badly. Now they have to fix it or be left with lesser options.  

Colt McCoy is fine but he's not as good as Cousins is, obviously.. Drafting a quarterback next year might be the long-term answer but it is a huge risk for that to be the short-term vision.  

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I'm not a huge Russell fan, but this is one of the better articles on the Cousin's situation. He throws out realistic numbers, instead of just saying the Redskins must pay 90-100M guaranteed (which doesn't mean much). He mentions full guarantees Kirk may be seeking which seems to be around 46-48% of a 5 year deal.

 

If the Redskins initial offer was 40% fully guaranteed, it's wasn't a ridiculous low ball, but a realistic starting point for negotiations (as Casserly assessed).

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I've never been worried about the cousins long term contract situation, though I would've liked to have gotten a deal done long ago when it would have been much cheaper. 

 

We've been subjected to a lot of media speculation over the last couple seasons.. a lot of "Bruce and Dan are cheap" "cousins wants to leave", and etc. 

 

I think all of these claims were baseless speculation and continue to think that. 

 

Bottom line is we will offer cousins a respectable deal. The skins don't have a history of low balling players. 

 

If cousins wants a crazy deal, he'll go elsewhere into an environment not as good for him as here and we'll get some compensatory picks and search for a qb again. 

 

There is a very low chance that happens. 

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3 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Didn't we already offer him that, and he/his agent turned that down? Could have just been a rumor or false information by the media 

Last I heard redskins offer it was about (24 first year then) 20 per year and 40 guaranteed. Definitely possible there were other offers but Its my understanding kc is looking for 24 per year using this tag as the basis for future years too. 

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