The Sewer That Is The GOP: With All The White Supremacists, Conspiracy Nutters, And Other Malicious Whacko Subgroups, How Does It Get Fixed?

[DCranon21]

37 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Define "sane conservative".  

 

Well since you put it like that..you maybe right Larry lol

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

I understand what you are saying, but I also agree with @BatteredFanSyndrome  No one is saying that all of sudden Liz CHeney is a beaming example of integrity. For myself, I only acknowledge that while it took entirely too long, she now realizes what a POS trump is and unlike many others is staying vocal about it. Nothing more, nothing less. 

 

Yea I totally feel where yall are coming from. I just dont agree at all. I do understand your point though. Honestly. 

[DCranon21]

dupe message, don't know how that happened.

Edited May 12, 2021 by DCranon21

[Jabbyrwock]

49 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Define "sane conservative".  

 

Sane Conservative (n): see Democrat

[mcsluggo]

cheney is gambling and playing a long a long game.   

 

McCain got all sorts of "street cred" with centrist voters during his "maverick" first run for the GOP nomination (when he lost to W).   and he was able to cash that cred in the 2008 election while running a pretty mainstream republican (right) campaign.  (hell..HE was the one that brought Sarah Palin into the limelight..and legitimized crazies).   he probably would have won about 95% of scenarios in 2008 as he was positioned.... but the economy had just completely cratered (and the public largely blamed republicans), and Barak Obama was a uniquely charismatic  opponent.

 

after she became the face of the anti trump crowd  post  jan 6, it was too late for cheney to skulk back into the fold (she would have looked more limp cuck than even ted cruz..and he will NEVER recover from that imagery).

 

she betting that there is at least a chance that some point in the future the GOP peanut gallery realizes that they need a broader field to win big elections, and she will be well positioned  to easily win back conservatives (she has been one of the MOST consistently arch conservative people in the party), while gaining some appeal to middle voters that she would've had a hard time getting in any other way.

 

sometimes you have to zig when EVERYONE else is zagging 

[mistertim]

49 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I understand what you are saying, but I also agree with @BatteredFanSyndrome  No one is saying that all of sudden Liz CHeney is a beaming example of integrity. For myself, I only acknowledge that while it took entirely too long, she now realizes what a POS trump is and unlike many others is staying vocal about it. Nothing more, nothing less. 

 

I'll certainly give her credit for not backing down and refusing to fall in line now, but I just don't buy the bolded part at all. She's known for years what a POS Trump is and still mostly stayed in line and followed his lead. It took a literal violent insurrection and Trump blatantly lying about the election being stolen for her to finally say "ok, that's enough". 

 

So yeah I'll give her some props. But I'm not going to fawn over her for it.

[LadySkinsFan]

1 hour ago, TryTheBeal! said:

A lot of folks who are refusing to give Cheney any props today are the same folks who will look you right in the eyes and tell you that the DNC cheated Bernie in 2016...and again in 2020.

 

So, there’s that...

 

 

 

I don't think this is necessarily true. For example, I don't agree with Cheney's politics at all nor do I give her credit for speaking the obvious truth to save her job and her actual seat in the House. I also don't think that Sanders was wronged by the DNC, he just didn't win by their rules, he didn't get enough actual votes. Caucus votes don't really count in the scheme of things.

 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by LadySkinsFan

[Larry]

23 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I'll certainly give her credit for not backing down and refusing to fall in line now, but I just don't buy the bolded part at all. She's known for years what a POS Trump is and still mostly stayed in line and followed his lead. It took a literal violent insurrection and Trump blatantly lying about the election being stolen for her to finally say "ok, that's enough". 

 

So yeah I'll give her some props. But I'm not going to fawn over her for it.

 

There's certainly something to be said for the notion that when the enraged mob with torches and pitchforks is using a battering ram on the last door between them and you might not be the best time to reconsider the policy of responding to every situation by firing up the "lie your ass off machine" might have gone just a bit too far.  

 

[goskins10]

30 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I'll certainly give her credit for not backing down and refusing to fall in line now, but I just don't buy the bolded part at all. She's known for years what a POS Trump is and still mostly stayed in line and followed his lead. It took a literal violent insurrection and Trump blatantly lying about the election being stolen for her to finally say "ok, that's enough". 

 

So yeah I'll give her some props. But I'm not going to fawn over her for it.

 

Who is "fawning over her"?  LOL  Certainly not me. 

 

And I get what you guys are saying. But you have to give credit where it's due. Did she tow the line the 4 yrs and do trumps bidding? Yes, and no one - not me at least - is giving her a pass on that. But she is doing the right thing here. 

 

Did it take a hideous event? yes. But she is at least standing up to the POS. I don't see many others doing it. For that she has separated herself. But that does not mean I think she is a swell person all of a sudden - and I am certain I never even implied it. 

 

 

[Isifhan]

This is why I never believed all of the "behind closed doors the GOP is really mad at Trump" nonsense.  The GOP is fully embracing authoritarianism and as long as the money flows they'll be cool with it.  People better get off their asses in the midterms or we're in a pile of trouble. Just worried that some may think that electing Biden and flipping GA was engough.  Not even close.

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Who is "fawning over her"?  LOL  Certainly not me. 

 

And I get what you guys are saying. But you have to give credit where it's due. Did she tow the line the 4 yrs and do trumps bidding? Yes, and no one - not me at least - is giving her a pass on that. But she is doing the right thing here. 

 

Did it take a hideous event? yes. But she is at least standing up to the POS. I don't see many others doing it. For that she has separated herself. But that does not mean I think she is a swell person all of a sudden - and I am certain I never even implied it. 

 

 

 

Didn't mean it to imply that I was accusing you; I'm not. But out there on the interwebs and in media there seem to be people who are practically hero worshipping her for it.

 

Again, I do give her props and respect for refusing to back down; that's tough to do given what a mob it is.

 

It's just disappointing that it took her so long to do so, and I don't think it was because she simply wasn't aware of what a POS he was. I think there was plenty of strategy there. She was well aware of who he was when she supported him.

[tshile]

Seems to me, right now might not be the best time to beat republicans turning against trump over the head with the “what took you so long” bat

 

if, like me, you see a very serious issue that needs very dramatic events to change course, then it’s more productive to support them and let that other stuff be a conversation for another time if things cool down eventually. 
 

and maybe they never cool down 

 

but enemy of my enemy is my friend. Someone calling out the current GOP as authoritarian terrorists is a friend at the moment. 
 

And if it works we’ll have plenty of time to hash all those other details out. 

Let’s not forget that even though she “waited”, she still threw away her political career doing what she thought was right. 
 

and ultimately we’d be better off with more people that are willing to do that, even if it takes them longer than we think it should to pull the trigger. 

[The Evil Genius]

😁

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by The Evil Genius

[Isifhan]

6 minutes ago, tshile said:

Seems to me, right now might not be the best time to beat republicans turning against trump over the head with the “what took you so long” bat

 

if, like me, you see a very serious issue that needs very dramatic events to change course, then it’s more productive to support them and let that other stuff be a conversation for another time if things cool down eventually. 
 

and maybe they never cool down 

 

but enemy of my enemy is my friend. Someone calling out the current GOP as authoritarian terrorists is a friend at the moment. 
 

And if it works we’ll have plenty of time to hash all those other details out. 

Let’s not forget that even though she “waited”, she still threw away her political career doing what she thought was right. 
 

and ultimately we’d be better off with more people that are willing to do that, even if it takes them longer than we think it should to pull the trigger. 

I'd agree with this but realistically I don't see a trickle becoming a meaningful flood of conservative GOPer exiting.  I'm all for it but how many do you think will really sacrifice their career to do what's right.  A meaningful amount?  I have my doubts. But hey the more the merrier. 

[tshile]

5 minutes ago, Isifhan said:

I'd agree with this but realistically I don't see a trickle becoming a meaningful flood of conservative GOPer exiting.  I'm all for it but how many do you think will really sacrifice their career to do what's right.  A meaningful amount?  I have my doubts. But hey the more the merrier. 

Who knows. But the goal is to reduce (or outright destroy) the influence of the Trump-era GOP. Part of that is having some portions of the GOP split. 
 

every person that leaves is a good thing. It’s one more blow to their power. And that’s what matters at the moment. 
 

 

[Llevron]

Y’all actually think she changed course on supporting Trump cause it’s the right thing to do? Because I’m still waiting for the political, financial or legal benefit to become clear. Honest question. 
 

Im not really trying to knock her for it. If confronted by her or some republican I would hope to influence, I would probably say she’s doing the right thing. But in casual conversation with thinking members of society, I still doubt her motives too much to thank her. 
 

I don’t really appreciate anyone who draws the line at insurrection, personally. 

[Llevron]

24 minutes ago, tshile said:

Someone calling out the current GOP as authoritarian terrorists is a friend at the moment. 

if she actually went this far I have to amend my opinion on her a bit and give her a bit more credit. I haven’t read any of her recent statements due to not being able to read with my eyes rolling in the back of my head. I’ll take a look now. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

9 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Y’all actually think she changed course on supporting Trump cause it’s the right thing to do? Because I’m still waiting for the political, financial or legal benefit to become clear. Honest question. 
 

Im not really trying to knock her for it. If confronted by her or some republican I would hope to influence, I would probably say she’s doing the right thing. But in casual conversation with thinking members of society, I still doubt her motives too much to thank her. 
 

I don’t really appreciate anyone who draws the line at insurrection, personally. 

I don’t think anyone is crediting her with changing her support of Trump as so much she’s literally sacrificed her political career by standing on an island, continuing to call it what it is, when the rest have fallen back and shut up.

 

The easiest thing to do in this situation is tow the party line.  The hardest thing to do is go against the mob.

 

We’re not saying it redeems her past.

[goskins10]

40 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Didn't mean it to imply that I was accusing you; I'm not. But out there on the interwebs and in media there seem to be people who are practically hero worshipping her for it.

 

Again, I do give her props and respect for refusing to back down; that's tough to do given what a mob it is.

 

It's just disappointing that it took her so long to do so, and I don't think it was because she simply wasn't aware of what a POS he was. I think there was plenty of strategy there. She was well aware of who he was when she supported him.

 

 

Fair enough and I agree. I should have left out she realized he was a POS - you are probably right she knew all along but it was to her advantage to go along. It's more like he finally crossed the line too far - and yes it took a very ****ing long time for her to get to that point.  

[Llevron]

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don’t think anyone is crediting her with changing her support of Trump as so much she’s literally sacrificed her political career by standing on an island, continuing to call it what it is, when the rest have fallen back and shut up.

 

The easiest thing to do in this situation is tow the party line.  The hardest thing to do is go against the mob.

 

We’re not saying it redeems her past.

Yea I guess I don’t have any appreciation for how much she has sacrificed. That’s probably what it boils down to. It’s completely lost on me. 

 

Im already under the assumption she’s in politics for money or something other than to serve the country. So her sacrificing that means so, so little to me. 

[NoCalMike]

To me if Liz Cheney is sincere then she should leave the GOP and become an independent.  That would be drawing a line in the sand.  If you look at both parties, they are free to all have arguments and in-fighting about policy and what the party agenda will be (in general) but it Liz Cheney is suggesting what we all know to be true, which is that the current GOP majority and leadership supports anti-democratic actions.  That is just not acceptable.  I don't care if you agree with the tax policy, or foreign policy, you are still free to caucus with them on those issues as an (I) but unless you are willing to say you are done with the party that supports this, I am not fully buying in.   MTG has been there for a handful of months and her insane whacky nonsense about the election has become the majority opinion, even if it isn't behind closed doors, it is what is being pushed to the public and that is what matters, as evidenced by Jan 6th.....and likely beyond.

[Simmsy]

Good lord! If you guys want to say what she did was "brave", so be it, but it doesn't actually make her brave. Liz Cheney could've been "brave" at any point in the last four years, she only decided to do when it was too late to do anything...just like any other Republican. We've seen this play before, they suddenly grow a spine when its all over, want to come out and tell everyone how horrible they felt about doing what they were doing. This is all a strategic move, history will not be kind to the GOPers that followed Trump down this path and continue to do so. I don't know if her future plans are a book deal or higher office, but she knows that going far right with Trump is walking the plank.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 hours ago, LadySkinsFan said:

 

...nor do I give her credit for speaking the obvious truth to save her job and her actual seat in the House.

 

 

I'm not sure how her speaking the obvious truth about Trump and the GOP saves her job for her.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Simmsy said:

Good lord! If you guys want to say what she did was "brave", so be it, but it doesn't actually make her brave. Liz Cheney could've been "brave" at any point in the last four years, she only decided to do when it was too late to do anything...just like any other Republican. We've seen this play before, they suddenly grow a spine when its all over, want to come out and tell everyone how horrible they felt about doing what they were doing. This is all a strategic move, history will not be kind to the GOPers that followed Trump down this path and continue to do so. I don't know if her future plans are a book deal or higher office, but she knows that going far right with Trump is walking the plank.

 

Or it could be that the insurrection attempt on Jan 6th made some republicans jump off the train. Hell, even Lindsey Graham jumped off it right afterwards--and then later ran like a mf'er to jump back on again lol.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Califan007

[tshile]

42 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Yea I guess I don’t have any appreciation for how much she has sacrificed. That’s probably what it boils down to. It’s completely lost on me. 

cnn sent someone to Wyoming to interview her constituents. 
 

they found a few people who said they thought she was doing the right thing - she was a hard working conservative politician that won’t put up with garbage. These people all work masks (not noted by cnn, but something I observed)

 

the vast majority disparaged her. Some said things like she forgot where she comes from - that she wasn’t out there to vote her conscious but she was out there to tow the line - etc. these people didn’t wear masks. 

 

politics has a lot of places to live in for a career but she will never win another election in Wyoming. That vector for any possible political career for her is closed. 
 

im not interested in dying on the hill of Lizz Cheney, but she absolutely stood her ground and did so knowing it cost her this career. 
 

im willing to give her credit for that and reserve a more thorough critique of her character for a later date. 🤷‍♂️ 

[PeterMP]

I feel it should be pointed out that Cheney had issues with Trump before the 6th and even before the election.

 

He actually singled her out as somebody to "get rid of" during his speech on the 6th.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/03/politics/liz-cheney-trump-reaction/index.html

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/before-riot-trump-said-we-got-to-get-rid-of-rep-liz-cheney-now-she-supports-impeaching-him/ar-BB1cHpPr