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The Sewer That Is The GOP: With All The White Supremacists, Conspiracy Nutters, And Other Malicious Whacko Subgroups, How Does It Get Fixed?

Jumbo

By Jumbo
in The Tailgate

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No Excuses

No Excuses

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

You're not wrong.  But leaders still lead.  And I think the GoP is exceptional in the ease with which their base is led.  I see polling frequently quoted about how 30% of Democrats approved of Obama using direct military force in Syria, 29% approve of Trump doing it.  30% of Republicans approved of Obama doing it, and now over 80% of them approve of Trump doing it.  It's an example of how the party base can be led to their positions.  I think everyone can be led by the leaders of their in-groups, but the reality is conservative voters are more easily influenced than liberals.

 

The Right has been poorly led for a long time.  They're led by propaganda ministers in the conservative mediascape.  The GoP needs leaders who won't sell out truth, consistency, and public good for cheap votes and the support of the scumbags on their websites and radio and TV programs.  I don't know how you find a whole party full of leaders with the strength to do that though.  These propaganda ministers are unbelievably powerful.

 

The extreme tribalist nature is one aspect of the right but I think it's distinct from the part that chooses its leaders.

 

They had some thoughtful, respectable people run this last time around and they all got smoked by... Donald Trump and Ted Cruz.

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twa

twa

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, No Excuses said:

 

The extreme tribalist nature is one aspect of the right but I think it's distinct from the part that chooses its leaders.

 

They had some thoughtful, respectable people run this last time around and they all got smoked by... Donald Trump and Ted Cruz.

 

Expanding the base won the day....something Dems had told them to do for years.

 

Happy now?

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Hersh

Hersh

Posted
Posted

I think the first thing is identifying what the GOP really stands for these days. Less on an individual issue basis but more as what their real guiding principles might be. I don't have any idea these days and most policies they put forth fly in the face of their old rhetoric.

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RedskinsMayne

RedskinsMayne

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Hersh said:

I think the first thing is identifying what the GOP really stands for these days. Less on an individual issue basis but more as what their real guiding principles might be. I don't have any idea these days and most policies they put forth fly in the face of their old rhetoric.

 

Thats easy, "happiness for thyself (before all)"

Edited by RedskinsMayne
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Jumbo

Jumbo

Posted
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Posted
53 minutes ago, twa said:

 

Expanding the base won the day....something Dems had told them to do for years.

 

Happy now?

  

 

It's a good line, but I don't think the establishment gop (hence "the Republicans" per se) really planned well to expand, and in fact, were still headed in the "excluding" <small tent> direction...trump is part of a perfect storm scenario....context-unique....

 

part great strategies and campaigners, but lots of wild and fortuitous circumstances...an infamous rogue candidate with a yuge social media footprint successfully capitalized on a LOT of obama whitelash..all that hate at 8 yrs of that two-tone muslim-loving socialist and his effed up lib policies and his condescending "i'm so smart and you're dumb" deal (as "they" see it)...

 

motivated a lot of those kind of folks to go vote when they often don't....got some "extra" help from the intense hate for hillpill and how  wiki/fbi hurt her with many wavering....got enough cross migration in his favor from those certain dems we've all covered and a mix of indies, 3rders who bailed on johnson after allepo and him being besotted alla time, tho they still did normal enuff in vote totals due to hillary hate being so strong...and in the end it was a loss of pop vote and a electoral win by what could have gone the other way easy enough with a better run (don't neglect the rust belt) dem campaign, even with hillary...so not some giant landslide of widespread national sentiment in favor of "the gop"..

 

so i'd question if the gop really added many "republicans" long term or not...the people i'm noting here sure won't ever wander over to the dems, tho, so there is that...

 

 

i think the gop has deep party-cultural issues of ethical/moral identity as an institution more serious than ideological policy issues,  with a lot of members uncomfortable with what THEY see as a lot of bigotry, religiosity, misogyny, hypocrisy, "anti-science", and, still, exclusion....

 

but what if this is the gop direction from now on? the "trurmpster" becomes a long term core demo? would resident gopers be ok with that or troubled?

 

if you don't like don and the trumpster movement, what parts are most problematic?

 

 

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No Excuses

No Excuses

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, twa said:

 

Expanding the base won the day....something Dems had told them to do for years.

 

Happy now?

 

The happy now? question is better directed at conservatives. The expanded base wants lots of government subsidized stuff.

 

Enjoy.

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twa

twa

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, No Excuses said:

 

The happy now? question is better directed at conservatives. The expanded base wants lots of government subsidized stuff.

 

Enjoy.

 

which the Dems always provide.

 

Which is worse if I get some things I desire from only one?

No, I ain't happy....but I am amused.

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Riggo-toni

Riggo-toni

Posted
Posted (edited)

Between father and son, the Bush family betrayed the Reagan movement and turned the GOP back to big government Nixonianism (GHWB's mentor) dominated by a rabid theocratic element. As I have mentioned in other threads, in the 80s and 90s, people criticized/labeled me as ultraconservative; now Republicans dismiss me as a liberal - yet the only 2 issues I have changed positions on are the death penalty and global warming.

 

GHWB added over 20,000 pages of new regulations to the federal registrar, passed the second largest post-war tax hike coupled with a surge in spending (government spending went up 2.12 for every new dollar in taxes) in the middle of a credit crunch. The end result of his bad policies left him with the worst record of economic growth since Herbert Hoover. His desperate attempt to win reelection was to collect endorsements from televangelists and hand the 92 GOP convention over to Pat Buchanan and Dan Quayle.

 

GWB increased the size of government by 7 1/2% a year - the fastest rate of any President since FDR.  He inherited a budget surplus, and left with a trillion dollar deficit. Even if one subtracts the cost of his wars, GWB still increased government spending more in his first four years than Clinton did in eight. He went his entire first term without vetoing a single spending bill - unprecedented! He didn't veto spending on anything until a bill came up that included money for stem cell research.

 

After GWB, what does the GOP run on?

 

Limited government...after increasing its size at a rate that would make Tip O'Neill blush?

 

Balanced budget, after going from a surplus to a trillion dollar deficit?

 

The Economy, after his term culminated in the worst recession and financial collapse since the Great Depression?

 

National security, after letting Bin Laden slip away and bungling the Iraq war?

 

In the end, the only thing the GOP could do was pretend that the unwillingness to torture meant that the Dems were soft on terrorism (despite Obama quadrupling the number of drone strikes, capturing UBL, and crippling AQAP), and insist that God was on their side because they were against gay marriage and abortion.

 

In 2012, Huntsman could have beaten Barack Obama. He had the best record of economic growth of any governor and did it by simplifying tax rates and limiting spending, but...he was an advocate of civil unions as a human right for gay couples.  So, he was deemed to moderate. Rick Santorum was one of the most profligate spenders in congress, but every time a mic was put in front of him he would rail against gays, godlessness and abortion, and even lambasted JFK's speech about not being a papal pawn. So, he was named the conservative of the race. In the end the GOP nominated Romney, who had an abysmal record as governor, but was willing to repudiate his past positions on gay rights and pro-choice.

 

In 2016, the GOP ignored Kasich who would have beaten Hillary both in the Electoral College and the popular vote. Instead they insisted on a candidate who would blame everything on brown people. The so-called party of Reagan was fixated on protectionism and nativist paranoia.

 

Reagan lobbied for the acceptance of the boat people from South Asia; Bannon convinced Trump that Asians in Silicon Valley were destroying the social fabric of society. Reagan provided a path to citizenship for any immigrants who had lived in America and obeyed the law; the GOP went gaga for a guy who promised to deport every last undocumented immigrant. Reagan proposed a free trade agreement with Mexico and began the Uruguay round of GATT which created the WTO. Trump ranted and railed continually against both.

Edited by Riggo-toni
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Hersh

Hersh

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

Before you fix either party, you need campaign finance reform and term limits.

 

I disagree and that's a separate discussion about fixing politics in general. I would say neither party will be fixed until the focus changes from power and winning. Plus, there has to be a desire to be introspective and to get help much like an individual dealing with an addiction or mental health issue. 

Edited by Hersh
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RedskinsMayne

RedskinsMayne

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

I disagree and that's a separate discussion about fixing politics in general. I would say neither party will be fixed until the focus changes from power and winning. Plus, there has to be a desire to be introspective and to get help much like an individual dealing with an addiction or mental health issue. 

 

 

singe longer term limits,

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Riggo-toni

Riggo-toni

Posted
Posted

Gerrymandering is keeping the GOP in power in the house, but it is also choking off any chance at reforming itself because pragmatists will lose primaries to ardent tribalists. The only things that can change the GOP are:

 

1) An awful Dem President -as much as they wanted this to be Obama, he was ultimately successful and fairly popular...despite how many times Trump and Fox News proclaim otherwise.

 

2) The inevitable dying off of much of their base. A disproportionate number of remaining GOP hardcore voters are over 50 and in rural areas. The life expectancy for rural whites was already dropping, but the Trump effect may accelerate this trend. Hospitals in rural areas are unable to attract many native doctors, so they fill their ranks with immigrant Doctors. Likewise, a large part of the rural population gets their insurance from the ACA exchanges. With fewer doctors to serve them, loss of insurance, and an opioid epidemic that is losing funds to combat it, the real 'Muricans are actively participating in ushering in their own demise. Run lemmings run....

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tshile

tshile

Posted
Posted

This was brought up in another thread and it made me think that it's probably the base of the problem with the GOP...

 

They need to divorce their political identity from Christianity.

 

It's become a crutch and justification for ridiculous opinions/actions.

 

They use politics to push the morals from their religion, when in my opinion they have no business doing so.

 

But worse, they use it as this catch-all justification for everything. "well, that's what I believe" now supersedes facts, science, rigorous testing/study, and common sense.

 

Obama took flak for his 'cling to guns and religion' comment, but he was right.

 

That and just an overall attack on, or dismissal of, intelligence. There are some bright people on the right, and there are compelling arguments made from the right. They're just really hard to find because there's so much dumb to weed through.

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twa

twa

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, tshile said:

This was brought up in another thread and it made me think that it's probably the base of the problem with the GOP...

 

They need to divorce their political identity from Christianity.

 

It's become a crutch and justification for ridiculous opinions/actions.

 

They use politics to push the morals from their religion, when in my opinion they have no business doing so.

 

 

 

While I agree dropping the Christian banner in politics would be best I do think the political sphere is the right place to assert your morals(no matter the source) under our system.

 

If ya want less of it it is best to reduce govt influence in our lives.

 

Don't tell me I am free then tie my hands

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