Jumbo

Fixing the Republican Party (new material on pg 9)

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1 minute ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Yeah but the other two didn't vote at all. It's the next step in Republican voter suppression. Make sure that the new Call of Duty gets released on election day.

 

:P

 

They could have early voted if they weren't distracted by all those selfie posts.

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7 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Yeah but the other two didn't vote at all. It's the next step in Republican voter suppression. Make sure that the new Call of Duty gets released on election day.

I need to clarify that stat:  Only 1 in 3 millennials that voted actually voted for Trump.  You're right though, youth not showing up is a problem, and has been for a while (gotta fix that)

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1 minute ago, mcsluggo said:

33% of millennials voted for trump.

33% voted for Jill Stein or McMuffin

and

33% couldn't be bothered.

 

We fell for it like the rest of the country did. Problem is I think we are so comfortable in apathy that it can be expected to happen again. 

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After doing a little extra research recently, I have to say that I wouldn't mind if the party went back to its roots - which included the likes of Horace Greeley and European ex-pats/veterans of the 1848 Revolutions.

 

https://isreview.org/issue/79/reading-karl-marx-abraham-lincoln

 

Quote

“Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.”

From President Lincoln's first State of the Union. There's a lot more about the radical and left-leaning origins of the Republican Party in the link above. 

 

This also caught my eye:

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/iwma/documents/1864/lincoln-letter.htm

 

Quote

We congratulate the American people upon your re-election by a large majority. If resistance to the Slave Power was the reserved watchword of your first election, the triumphant war cry of your re-election is Death to Slavery.

The International Workingmen's Association's Letter to President Lincoln after his 1864 reelection. The First IWA/Internationale was led by Dr. Karl Marx.

 

My oh my, I had no idea just how appropriate the color red was for the GOP. You all might make a Republican out of me yet! :D 

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18 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

33% of millennials voted for trump.

33% voted for Jill Stein or McMuffin

and

33% couldn't be bothered.

 

No, half of millennials didn't vote, 37% of those that did voted for Trump, so just to be clear 33% of millenials in general didn't vote for Trump, more like a fraction of a fraction.  

 

https://www.kqed.org/lowdown/24448/how-millennials-voted-in-the-2016-presidential-election

 

Millenials and Gen Z are trending in a direction that's not going to add up to the same near half and half we're seeing right now.

 

image.png.efeef74da016c539c6b90ad4a6acf58c.png

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11 minutes ago, newday said:

Red States need to focus on improving education standards. 

As someone who lives in a red state (Texas), I’m insulted by how misunderstood our carefully crafted educational standards & curriculum are. If we did what you’re proposing, then we’d become blue states. So, I’m afraid our hands are tied.

Edited by Sacks 'n' Stuff
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4 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

As someone who lives in a red state (Texas), I’m insulted by how misunderstood our carefully crafted educational standards & curriculum are. If we did what you’re proposing, then we’d become blue states. So, I’m afraid our hands are tied.

 

They are better now than when Texas was blue :P

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4 minutes ago, twa said:

They are better now than when Texas was blue :P

Nothing to brag about considering we’re ranked 43rd right now. Also explains why they turned red in the first place.

 

See, that’s how it works. Blue state that neglects education... don’t be surprised when you turn red. Vice versa for Red states that improve education.

Edited by Sacks 'n' Stuff
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3 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Whew... I’m sure that Texas was relieved to learn that Texas found Texas to have the best education in the nation.

 

You do know what the N in NAEP stands for?:P

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55 minutes ago, twa said:

You do know what the N in NAEP stands for?:P

Allow me to duck this question by responding with a juvenile logical fallacy.

 

 

Edited by Sacks 'n' Stuff
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See, this is the bull**** I have to put up with.

What a joke.

Just a couple notes, Bevin’s house that he bought after securing the governorship apparised for neary twice the value of what he bought it for, and his buddy now has a first right of refusal for when Bevin wants to sell. Not to mention that the appraisal was hired privately by Bevin.

Bevin also is using his power to undercut struggling schools in Louisville so he can open the door to his corpratist buddies and their charter school fantasies.

Bevin also gave a $200,000 raise to one of his cronies while at the same time belittling teachers who retire with a pension that THEY paid into for 20 years!!

 

This is the bull**** that defines the GOP these days. Corruption, arrogance, greed, and bull**** ball swinging swagger.

 

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The irony of the fact that Congressman Andy Barr shared a stage the other night with massive troll, and then his spokesman coming out against Bevin’s video is anazing to me, but at least that farce is being rejected. If only they’d have enough integrity to reject the stage with Trump...but Bevin is already on his way out and too many idiots here still think Trump is doing a fine job. 

 

BTW, every President henceforth can please stay away from whatever town I live in, what a mess with traffic!!!

Roads shut down 30 minutes before AND after his passing, then repeat on the way out. It was a mess all afternoon and evening, and I dind’t even get an opportunity to ??him off!

 

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Shame on every single person who is supressing the votes of citizens.

 

Right here is the single most important issue affecting citizens'rights to vote and participate in our government.

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19 hours ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Shame on every single person who is supressing the votes of citizens.

 

Right here is the single most important issue affecting citizens'rights to vote and participate in our government.

I disagree with the bold part.

 

Being able to vote doesn't mean crap if you determining who to vote for is based off bad or incomplete information.  If I had a magic wand, I'd fix Citizens United or Russian meddling before I fixed voter suppression.  

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11 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I disagree with the bold part.

 

Being able to vote doesn't mean crap if you determining who to vote for is based off bad or incomplete information.  If I had a magic wand, I'd fix Citizens United or Russian meddling before I fixed voter suppression.  

Or ignorance, thats the single biggest issue... There are choices to be made and if you dont invest time to make those choices all you can be is ignorant. I think thats what you are saying but felt my way was a little less subtle..

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This is the first I have seen of this particular post, been on board since 2007, been a member since 2010 i think.  Ill add this to the conversation, though seen it iterated throughout the thread by other posters.  I was a R as a youth, but also grew up in Reagan years, I was merica **** yeah.  Once I got older I realized what it takes to raise a family, that we need to help each other, when it come's to religion or sexuality our govt has no business in. That a women can chose what to do with their bodies. I personally feel the same way about helmet laws, seat belt laws, or whether you want to stick a needle in your arm. Those a personal decisions not something that should be legislated.  However I also do not think the govt should have to subsides those things.  The R's think i should conform to there ridiculous version of America from the 50's... And add in some hate from that time as well and no, its just not a party I can identify with even though I agree with many of their policies.

 

Edit: And as someone in STEM, their policy on Climate change, and the environment in general is appalling at best....

Edited by dcdiscokid
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I found this among the back pages---didn't want to start another political thread for it and it fits well enough here.

 

This changed from being a new thread about bothsiderism and whataboutism to a look at some differences in constituencies that have been in and out of my thoughts for many months, somewhat prompted anew by Gillum's comment to DeSantis that "racists seem to think you're racist." 
 
While quite lengthy, this is intended to be more broad than nuanced. It will not feature lists of exact stuff the right is doing now v. the stuff the left is doing now, those two isms, and themes of false equivalencies, though that remains a great topic to be doneFor the sake of convenience, I am going to refer to the players as left or dems and gop or right, and I won't be addressing all "others", nor will this be about dem/gop ideological or policy splits. 
 
I think it can interesting and informative to note who is attracted  to your group and who is repulsed, examine why and assess what it may mean positive or negative, etc.  Here's a few observations from an attraction perspective to the two constituencies that I've wanted to raise in that spirit.
 

1. Racism---specifically against African Americans/blacks (yes, that). For years the gop writ large has protested that libs constantly and gratuitously "call racist", and falsely, in association with (many of) the right. What is then usually argued is "how much" racism there really is on the right, with the two sides typically very far apart in analysis, and the right raising questions about the amount of racism that is also on the left (and here, substituting claims of some other form of lefty bigotry/intolerance of some other demographic is not germane). But, for length, I'm moving past all that to this: 

 

We should be able to agree the longstanding anti-black form of racism didn't go away after the civil war or even after Obama's election. Millions upon millions of Americans supported slavery for generations.  Millions upon millions felt blacks were inferior humans or subhuman and treated them so for centuries. Millions of families were raised and virtually all social institutions were significantly formed around this reality. How could it be otherwise? We fought a war over it. We should accept as fact there is a great deal of racist attitude, feeling, thinking, and behavior still existent in the nation, because it would have to be, even if racism is '"much better" now than it was, right? If you think not, I'd suggest you're not a friend of facts, logic, and rational thinking.

 

So, say over the last half-century as a time period most relevant to current climate, for the people who do still harbor such sentiments, at whatever level from "a little racist" to full-on kkk and all the points in between, when they do drift towards political affiliation and activity, where do you think they go and who do you think they'd align with? The right or the left? Dems or gopers? Obvious answer. 

 

So the first contention is that the gop, as a party overall, has harbored and utilized, denial aside, a large reservoir of racism. Other groups that may be targets of racism from the right, or accusations made against the left of various forms of bigotry or intolerance are also fair, but different, topics and I intend to address the latter (and other flaws of the left) in another post or thread.

 

 I realize of course media in general is a big topic, but this, below, is an appropriate dilution.

 

2.  Hyper-partisan and extremist political radio----tens of millions of loyal listeners worship rush and the likes of mike savage. There are more of them. If you listen to what these vast audiences are devouring, it's way more crazy-right and malevolent  than most of Fox news' "entertainment" programming. There is no lefty equivalent to crazy right wing radio. Years ago Al Franken and Janene Garofalo helped head a lefty effort to get into the political radio market and the product fielded wasn't even as edgy as SNL, nowhere near as funny and they tried, and quite heavy on intellectualizing and policy debate and, of course, plenty of celebrities. Do you think those multiple millions who cheer homophobe mike savage or that rancid lump of malignant yuck rush limbaugh go to the gop or the dems?

 

So along with most of those who occupy the racist continuumwe also have millions and millions of crazy radio listeners pretty excursively tied to one party. There is no lefty equivalent. (of course the left has "crazy", in general too, not ignoring it, being specific)

 

3. Militas.---can ya guess how many right wing, sovereign citizen, nationalist/white supremacists/neo-nazi  militias there are across the country? While their numbers don't reach into the  millions---I hope---I'm counting them here as relevant because of pattern and impact (they impact well beyond their numbers via fear). When they drift towards a party for political action/affiliation which way they go? Hey, you're getting good at this. 

 

This is not even counting numerous other groups like Proud Boys or that group of rigthwingers who can't get laid, to which the right can counter, however lamely, with anitfa or blm. This is just openly identified militias. Now you can ask where else would gun lovers go, since the lefty's want to take the guns away, but these guys are typically far more than simple "gun lovers" and have a lot of other agenda baggage like racism/otherism, too. And as to arguing whether the left wants to erase the 2nd, we won't have that (dumb) discussion here.

 

4. Infowars and Conspiracy theories---here's another vast nutjob factor. Again, Jones had millions of whacked partisans, disenchanted freaks, social rejects, and plain old crazies as loyal followers. Guess which party (even before trump, and certainly since he became the head of the party) they go to when seeking one? Which party gave infowars white house press credentials? Which party has had multiple--if usually lower level---candidates interview on jones show over the years? (even before trump)

 

5. The RNC vs the DNC (this really belongs elsewhere and not on this list but oops and oh well) ---this will be simplistic---if one can't see a yuge objective difference in the absolute crazytown garbage/nonsense that rona romney whatever and the schlapps are putting out these days vs their counterparts---again, policy aside---in multiple forms at every level than you're hyper partisan to the right. The RNC is almost inseparable from the fringe most of the time compared to the DNC. It's like they graduated RT's Training Center in Moscow while the DNC is still playing at old school democracy debates. Hell the RNC has openly participated in RT enterprises. This might be the beginning of a new hot affair since the NRA looks like it's getting old and addicted to surgery and botox. 


6. Britebart land---now I know, once we get into the internet, things get way more dicey as the crazy proliferates on all sides, but if you think huffpo or even the daily kos (i have no use for either, really)---both super-lefty lib sure enough---are equivalent, no, they're not even close in "extreme" or '"detached from reality" or just plain old malevolence and dishonesty and worse.  Anyway, I think bb is worth adding to the mix here---again, millions of readers, used to be confined to the backwaters, but has been brought to the forefront in all its glory and given WH pres credentials. And what party do you think all these splendid bb specimens---esp. those clever lib-trollers who are so inspiring with their life choices---align with? There can be only one.

 

7. Evangelist Super-Fundies---in the millions, though it's certainly not "all of them." Not even going to type out out the obvious (or what should be), just follow the bouncing ball.

 

So if i'm a goper, I'm noticing the neo-nazis, the kkk, the militias, all the racists, the crazy radio people, the religious nuts (emphasis on nuts), a huge population of rabid conspiracy whackos (ala potus), and so many other forms of frothy footmen, are not just "among" the attendees to my party, they're a core, a staple, and wouldn't go anywhere else. Why is that?  :P

 

 

 

 

 
 
 
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Jumbo’s post isnvery long and I may have missed some nuance. Seemed to be a summary of the Republicans winning formula but failing to mention the partisan electioneering and voter disenfranchisement. 

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