Jumbo

Fixing the Republican Party (new material on pg 9)

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I'd argue that there is just as many, if not more, members of the Christian faith that do harm than there are members of Islam that are out stoning homosexuals.  If you don't think this is true, there are a few thousand choir boys you should talk to.

 

I approach the "why don't you attack the Muslim faith for......"   like this:  For starters, I do, but the main reason I emphasize criticisms of Christianity over other religions is because America has historical roots in being ruled by "Judeo-Christian Values" 

 

Can you count on 1 hand how many elected officials that are Muslim (In America) who are voting pro-life policies?  Which ones are advocating for Sharia Law?  Give me a list and I will be happy to criticize and do what I can to vote them out of office.  Last I checked it is primarily Christian conservatives that are the ones, in America, that are voting in ways that suggest that we should be living under The Bible's rule of law.  

 

As an almost-Atheist, I am against any religious dogma being the rule of law, however in America it isn't the Muslims perpetuating that. Maybe within their own households, but they aren't in public office demanding everyone else must live like that. 

Edited by NoCalMike
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Can you count on 1 hand how many elected officials that are Muslim (In America) who are voting pro-life policies?  Which ones are advocating for Sharia Law?  Give me a list and I will be happy to criticize and do what I can to vote them out of office.  Last I checked it is primarily Christian conservatives that are the ones, in America, that are voting in ways that suggest that we should be living under The Bible's rule of law.  

 

As an almost-Atheist, I am against any religious dogma being the rule of law, however in America it isn't the Muslims perpetuating that. Maybe within their own households, but they are in public office demanding everyone else must live like that. 

Nail on the head. Faux News and the Rightwing nuts love pointing to Detroit and the large Muslim population there and saying that they are enacting Sharia Law.

Oh, I'm sorry, are you referring to the laws that were changed to allow a long wire to be set up around an entire neighborhood on poles so that fundamentalist Muslims could move about from house to house on the Sabbath?
Oh sorry...not Muslims

https://nypost.com/2015/05/24/high-wire-strewn-through-city-lets-jews-keep-the-faith/

You must be talking about the Muslims who are prohibiting alcohol sales on the Sabbath?

Oh wait...no not Muslims again.

Oh I know, you must be talking about the Muslims who want to tell my wife and daughter what they can do with their bodies.

Or the Muslims who want laws against the relationship that my friends have with one another.

Or the Muslims who want to post quotes from the Quran in county courthouses across the country.

Truly the Evangelical Christians have become (and arguably always were) exactly what they feared the most.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

 

Truly the Evangelical Christians have become (and arguably always were) exactly what they feared the most.

 

"Look over there at the scary brown people.............while we guide public policy according to our Christian faith"

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Larry said:

 

Based on nothing other than the undisputed fact that so many of their congregation vote that way. And cite their religion as their reason for doing so. 

 

Thank you for responding.  I can see where you are coming from, and understand your point.  In the end, people (hopefully) review candidates principals, goals, promises etc, and vote on who they align with.  Which is why for those people that praise Trump for stating anything similar to "being a representative of the Christian people", I'll laugh in their face.  And I know thats out there.  I get my guard up though, when a wide brush sweeps across for many things that shouldn't.  And that happens all too often in politics and political talk.  

 

In the end, I post on this board to learn.  I see I'll be learning a lot of the left side of things, which some/many I may not agree with, but some I will.  

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

I approach the "why don't you attack the Muslim faith for......"   like this:  For starters, I do, but the main reason I emphasize criticisms of Christianity over other religions is because America has historical roots in being ruled by "Judeo-Christian Values" 

 

Can you count on 1 hand how many elected officials that are Muslim (In America) who are voting pro-life policies?  Which ones are advocating for Sharia Law?  Give me a list and I will be happy to criticize and do what I can to vote them out of office.  Last I checked it is primarily Christian conservatives that are the ones, in America, that are voting in ways that suggest that we should be living under The Bible's rule of law.  

 

As an almost-Atheist, I am against any religious dogma being the rule of law, however in America it isn't the Muslims perpetuating that. Maybe within their own households, but they aren't in public office demanding everyone else must live like that. 

This is called taking the high road.  

 

I prefer to just point out that a alarmingly high number of Christian leaders like sex with little boys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

I think your regional experience is swaying your impression regarding the whole. While my pastoral experience was in the midwest, I did have a denominational perspective and many conversations with clergy and laity across the country. I'll also remind the readers that a clergy voice is RARELY as effective on counter cultural issues than they'd ever like to admit. As such I think you're giving too much weight to the few voices that are speaking out.

 

You're not sure what churches need to do in the other areas such as: National origin, Religious beliefs, Gender, or Pregnancy in terms of discrimination? Have you even turned on Faux News lately? Have you even seen the numbers of Evangelicals who directly oppose one or more of these not to mention sexual orientation and identity? All because what someone 2000 years ago some guy in a gown transcribed the words of his god, which later kinda got changed, and are now completely reinterpreted and or ignored? Oh yeah, I know God said we can eat shrimp now because of Peter's vision but that kinda goes against the idea that God's commandments are unchanging and eternal.

 

I'm curious about your denominational experience though, seriously, no judgments. I'd just like to see if I'm correct in your background.

 

 

I typically go by a few things for my religious experience:  1.  my personal, and i'm Presbyterian.  2.  My wife is apart of a megachurch (which i wish she wasn't)  3.  I have friends that are in other churches not Presbyterian, including both right and left leaning friends.  4.  I have non-religious friends.

 

I guess i can reword the whole protected class question for you.  There are 9 other protected classes aside from Religion and race, you mentioned 6.  In this post you then only mention 3.  I am not aware of churches as a whole or majority falling short on some of those, but would love to see what you think.   

 

I think for our back and forth on here, what i perceive (Please don't be offended :)) is that you have found that you believe what you previously believe cannot possibly be true.  All the while other people believe its true, and use as a guiding principal, you seem to scoff at the notion (based on your sarcastic example above) that anyone can believe its true.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, superozman said:

I see I'll be learning a lot of the left side of things, which some/many I may not agree with, but some I will. 

 

Just to point out, this notion that the board is overrun by liberals?  (Usually followed by claims that anyone not liberal will be kicked off the board)?

 

We see it on here every couple of months. 

 

It's a running joke. I'd estimate that more than a half of the "extremist liberals" in these threads, are former Republicans who have been driven from the Party over the last 20 years or so. 

 

(Including me. I voted straight Republican ticket for 20 years. My "last straw" was the asset forfeiture laws included in Bush's anti-crime bill. First President I voted for was Gerald Ford. First Democrat President I voted for was Bill Clinton.)

Edited by Larry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Not saying you are an extreme leftest, @Larry but being a Republican in that past has no bearing on whether you are an extreme leftist now...

Edited by CousinsCowgirl84

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Barack Obama was called an "extreme leftist" for 8 years.  Let that sink in, and then try to come to the logical conclusion that you should re-think your terms of engagement. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Not saying you are an extreme leftest, @Larry but being a Republican in that past has no bearing on whether you are an extreme leftist now...

 

True. Reagan would be labeled an extreme leftist today. :) 

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Not saying you are an extreme leftest, @Larry but being a Republican in that past has no bearing on whether you are an extreme leftist now...

If you think @Larryis an extreme Leftist then you don't have a clue what a Leftist is. 

Full stop

2 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

Barack Obama was called an "extreme leftist" for 8 years.  Let that sink in, and then try to come to the logical conclusion that you should re-think your terms of engagement. 

To GOPers any non-GOPer is an extreme Leftist, and even some GOPers themselves who don't tow the Trumpista, Faux/Hannity line. They will throw RINO out at literally ANYONE who offers a criticism of the party.

They are a ****show, and a far cry from Reagan's big-tent party.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

If you think @Larryis an extreme Leftist then you don't have a clue what a Leftist is.

Who knows who is what anymore.  WTF am I?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Who knows who is what anymore.  WTF am I?

Edit:

I tried to write it, but the profanity filter keeps blocking it.

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Who knows who is what anymore.  WTF am I?

 

 

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

Barack Obama was called an "extreme leftist" for 8 years.  Let that sink in, and then try to come to the logical conclusion that you should re-think your terms of engagement. 

As a senator, he certainly was. As President, he was a centrist who grew government spending by only 1%/year, the slowest rate of any postwar President. And he quadrupled the number of drone strikes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

If you think @Larryis an extreme Leftist then you don't have a clue what a Leftist is. 

 

I do not. You would have to be several shades left of AOC to be an extreme leftist i think. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Obama was a good president, but not great. I don't want another apologist centrist. I don't like him attacking progressives, get on board or get out of the way!

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Larry said:

 

True. Reagan would be labeled an extreme leftist today. :) 

Regan is almost a holy figure to Republicans. But a politician using Regan's actual policies today would most likely be labeled a RINO. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, superozman said:

 

I typically go by a few things for my religious experience:  1.  my personal, and i'm Presbyterian.  2.  My wife is apart of a megachurch (which i wish she wasn't)  3.  I have friends that are in other churches not Presbyterian, including both right and left leaning friends.  4.  I have non-religious friends.

 

I guess i can reword the whole protected class question for you.  There are 9 other protected classes aside from Religion and race, you mentioned 6.  In this post you then only mention 3.  I am not aware of churches as a whole or majority falling short on some of those, but would love to see what you think.   

 

I think for our back and forth on here, what i perceive (Please don't be offended :)) is that you have found that you believe what you previously believe cannot possibly be true.  All the while other people believe its true, and use as a guiding principal, you seem to scoff at the notion (based on your sarcastic example above) that anyone can believe its true.  

 

Ok, I thought that might be the case that your experience is mostly with a traditionally more liberal denomination, Presbyterian church, which typically falls farther Left than my own United Methodist tradition.

 

The three that I mentioned are the three that we're experiencing in our culture today, which is when the leadership voices need to be heard even more. And I get how difficult it is as a religious leader to talk about equally respecting other's religions. In NoVa it's probably easier given the cultural diversity there, but here in vanilla America where most Xians are evangelical and feel that god has called them to convert everyone else, that message rings oddly. Instead what we get here most often a carbon copy of the Jerry Falwell/Pat Robertson.

 

As for what I used to believe, I totally get how folks still believe. Hell, I'm only a couple years removed myself. My sarcasm comes because that's who I am and how I approach things. These were the things that I struggled with the most and things that just don't make sense to me any more. I can't even pretend about it anymore. Look, if I'm wrong then I'm dead wrong and so be it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, youngestson said:

Regan is almost a holy figure to Republicans. But a politician using Regan's actual policies today would most likely be labeled a RINO. 

 

Well, I'd say "the things Reagan actually did", rather than "Reagan's actual policies".  I'm not sure the two are the same.  

 

Reagan came into office, 

 

* Passed a massive tax cut (mostly on the rich, but actually almost everybody got at least a little).  

* Vastly increased military spending.  (And some of the things I've heard, from people who were in the military at the time?  At least some of those increases were badly needed.)  

* And used a bunch of intentionally phony numbers to claim that it wouldn't increase the deficit.  

 

Every Republican since then has followed that formula.  

 

But then, when those policies resulted in the federal deficit more than doubling, he

 

* Increased taxes

* And held defense spending flat.  (Actually, a tiny, really trivial, cut.)  

 

Did Reagan do that because the latter were his policies?  Or because reality forced him to do something he didn't want to do?  

 

But that might be the point to be made, here.  Could you imagine any Republican (after Reagan) allowing the reality of their actions to convince them to alter those actions?  For the last 30 years or so, standard Republican playbook for what to do when reality makes them look bad, is to simply yell real loud that reality doesn't exist.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Larry said:

 

Just to point out, this notion that the board is overrun by liberals?  (Usually followed by claims that anyone not liberal will be kicked off the board)?

 

I do see more people with liberal ideology posting, do you not agree?  Why would I ever think I'd be kicked off the board? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
 
 
25 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Well, I'd say "the things Reagan actually did", rather than "Reagan's actual policies".  I'm not sure the two are the same.  

 

 

 

Yeah, that's a good point. 

His walk and talk often didn't sync too well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

My sarcasm comes because that's who I am and how I approach things. These were the things that I struggled with the most and things that just don't make sense to me any more. I can't even pretend about it anymore. 

 

I appreciate the honesty in the back and forth, while helping me understand where you come from, instead of just a name behind a keyboard yelling back and forth.  And on a side note, multiple times when you've posted a quick snapshot of your histroy and someone else mentioned it to me in the other thread, i've thought "I can't imagine what his mindset has gone through from leading a church to being basically the opposite".

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, superozman said:

I do see more people with liberal ideology posting, do you not agree?  Why would I ever think I'd be kicked off the board? 

If “liberal ideology” means “not ignoring reality”. As was explained, many of the posters that you’re referring to are conservatives. Actual conservatives who believe that conservativism means more than blind allegiance to anyone pretending to be a Republican. The GOP does not operate with conservative values or promote conservative policies.

 

In short, right wingers who reject Trump and current GOP leadership are many times more conservative & many, many, many times better Republicans than your average MAGA supporter, FOXNews goop, or GOP congressman.

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.