The College Bound Athlete (share, ask, boast)

[TMK9973]

BTW Peter - Did I miss something? You are knocking D1 athletes -But seem to ignore that when most parnets are talking about College bound athletes -Most of us are not focused only on D1.  

[AsburySkinsFan]

 

[PeterMP]

12 minutes ago, TMK9973 said:

This Topic jumped a bit.

Peter -  Not sure why you are even posting? Whats you goal?  Some of the generalizations you make are just incorrect.  You have this theme that sports will not lead to "Success in life". How do you determine success?  There are 200,000+ HS Sports coaches out there. Are their lifes not successful? There are prob close to 100,000 college sport coaches out there.  How about the guy who played HS ball and college ball and now feels comfortable coaching his kids teams?  Running camps?  Are their life not successful?  Did playing sports not have a impact on their life?  How about the hundred of thousands people that work in the sports industry (Working for teams, journalism, stats, trainers, etc...) a overwhelming majority played sports.  No impact?  

Are we now claiming that in order to coach a high school sport you have to have played D1?

 

That I can't coach my daughter even though I didn't play in college at all?

 

(Just to make a real general point, teaching kids sports is more about knowing how to teach, how kids learn, and how to manage kids then knowing about the sport.  I've seen youth coaches that played D1 sports, but they didn't know squat about teaching, and they aren't good coaches.)

 

And I never said no impact.

[TMK9973]

Just now, PeterMP said:

Are we now claiming that in order to coach a high school sport you have to have played D1?

 

That I can't coach my daughter even though I didn't play in college at all?

 

(Just to make a real general point, teaching kids sports is more about knowing how to teach, how kids learn, and how to manage kids then knowing about the sport.  I've seen youth coaches that played D1 sports, but they didn't know squat about teaching, and they aren't good coaches.)

 

And I never said no impact.

Did I miss something or did you move the goal posts.

 

Only you seem to be focused on D1 sports only.  The rest of us are talking about playing in College...period.  

[PeterMP]

10 minutes ago, TMK9973 said:

BTW Peter - Did I miss something? You are knocking D1 athletes -But seem to ignore that when most parnets are talking about College bound athletes -Most of us are not focused only on D1.  

 

Yes, I'm talking about a subset of the people going to play college sports that I have the most experience with.  I'm not honestly sure the value of playing D3 or 2 sports, but that's at least a different conversation.

[TMK9973]

Perhaps you should start a different thread then. This thread was about kids moving to playing college sports.  All colleges.  

I mean -I was enjoying hearing about others recruitment efforts and what they did and sharing my experience as I try to navigate the recruitment world.  

 

I know that if you are a TOP 1% of Basketball or Football colleges come to you. For the rest of us -We have to figure out how to get noticed. 

 

 

[Elessar78]

19 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

 

 

And at the college level, I deal with D1 athlete.  By and large, they aren't involved in extra circular activities beyond their sport.  By and large, they don't do the research, they don't do summer interships, they aren't going to workshops, etc.

I get his point. My parents didn't grow up in this country but held a Masters and PhD, respectively—so we were never indoctrinated into the sports culture  to the same degree. Once I got to college it was about the academics. I'd probably sing a similar song with regards to "how to do college" as PeterMP—particularly about the summer internships and research work. 

 

Sure, there are some athletes that excel like that FSU football player now a neurosurgeon or John Urschel from Penn State who is practically a math genius. But in college you have to dive deep into subject matter. The brain needs rest and to be free of distractions to really get the most out of the university/academic experience.

 

Athletes that graduate experience a wide variety of the definition of success. But I think it's fair to say that, from the academic standpoint, one is not squeezing out everything he/she could out of it if they have the extra load of D1 athletic responsibilities also on their plate. 

[AsburySkinsFan]

30 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

Are we now claiming that in order to coach a high school sport you have to have played D1?

 

That I can't coach my daughter even though I didn't play in college at all?

 

(Just to make a real general point, teaching kids sports is more about knowing how to teach, how kids learn, and how to manage kids then knowing about the sport.  I've seen youth coaches that played D1 sports, but they didn't know squat about teaching, and they aren't good coaches.)

 

And I never said no impact.

No one said D1 was necessary to coach high school, but don't be coy by pretending to ignore that D1 experience opens a lot of doors that would be closed otherwise. You can certainly coach your daughter, just like I can coach my son but I don't have the full skill set and I know it. Unknown unknows again. 

 

As for D1 players turned coaches, if you were looking to hire where are you goinn to look? Would YOU look the resume of factory worker with no experience the same as you would a D1 player? Of course you wouldn't. Why because you know the odds are far better with the D1 experience. 

Anyways I'm through debating the merits of athletic collegiate pursuits on a message board dedicated to the pinnacle of athletic achievement by former college athletes. 

 

On with the thread topic.

[Kilmer17]

Another nugget of wisdom I'd like to share with the board.  And it's something I tell my son and his baseball friends (most of whom want to play in college of some level).

Scouts and recruiters are at games to watch you because they already know how good you can play.  They are just as interested in seeing how you react when you have a bad game, bad at bat, make an error etc.  

 

And for the parents- You better know that they are looking at how you are acting as well.  Dont be the helicopter parent.  Dont be the one arguing with the ump etc.

[AsburySkinsFan]

12 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Another nugget of wisdom I'd like to share with the board.  And it's something I tell my son and his baseball friends (most of whom want to play in college of some level).

Scouts and recruiters are at games to watch you because they already know how good you can play.  They are just as interested in seeing how you react when you have a bad game, bad at bat, make an error etc.  

 

And for the parents- You better know that they are looking at how you are acting as well.  Dont be the helicopter parent.  Dont be the one arguing with the ump etc.

That's a very good point. One that tends to get over looked in the recruitment process. Self control is as much a factor as ball ability. And helicopter parents are unwelcome in the college ranks.

[PeterMP]

52 minutes ago, TMK9973 said:

Perhaps you should start a different thread then. This thread was about kids moving to playing college sports.  All colleges.  

I mean -I was enjoying hearing about others recruitment efforts and what they did and sharing my experience as I try to navigate the recruitment world.  

 

I know that if you are a TOP 1% of Basketball or Football colleges come to you. For the rest of us -We have to figure out how to get noticed. 

 

But the fact of the matter is for all of those kids there is an associated effort and commitment.  For the D1 kids, it is the most, but they are also most likely to get the most reward in terms of scholarships, it allowing them to attend a better college, etc. (and going back to my first post, if the sport is going to let you get into a college that you otherwise wouldn't have gotten into or afford a college that you otherwise couldn't afford that changes the conversation, but with my two nephews that was not the case).

 

Is not questioning whether the effort and commitment required to get good enough to play a sport in college and then the effort and commitment to play in college worth it for most of the people playing the sport part of the conversation about pursuing college sports?

 

(This'll be my last post, and I guess I can see why parents that have kids that have gone this route are uncomfortable with the idea.  Just in general, going back to the idea of a well rounded person/kid, from what I've seen getting to the point that you can play college sports and then playing college sports is not consistent with that idea.

 

And I'll ask for those that have kids in that situation, what extra circulars do they have beyond the sport and what extra circulars do they/you think they will reasonably have going into college?  And what is that expectation based on (i.e is it reasonable for most kids?).  If there is a Friday-Sunday workshop that interest them related to a career field, are they going to be able to go or is playing the sport going to get in the way?  I certainly already seeing it be an issue with my 11 year old daughter.  She plays soccer essentially 11 months of the year and for most of the year it is 2 nights a week and Saturday and this time of year with tryouts it is even more consuming.)

 

A few more points in general more related to the idea of playing in college that might be more about what people want to talk about.  The idea of playing for a new (young) coach might be exciting.  Being younger, they tend to be able to related to kids better, but I suspect at the D1 level a large percentage of new coaches aren't in the same job 5 years later.  Even for what are considered low level sports (e.g. field hockey), the administration might have expectations, and they might not be compete for a national championship, but compete for a conference championship sometimes.  But then 3 years of 5-7 aren't showing building towards that expectation and then the coach is out of a job, or if the coach does really well, they make a jump to a new schoo.

 

I'd suggest that if the kid is really chasing the dream of taking it to the next level after college unless they've shown some sort of significant improvement/physical development in the last few years (e.g. they are easier better as a junior than players that were better them as sophomore) roll the dice and take the walk on non-guaranteed scholarship at the more competitive program then the scholarship at the less competitive program and then deal with it if it doesn't work out.  Give them that year to put in the work to make the improvement to make the more competitive program, and if they can't get there, then deal with the consequences.  That somebody that between 16-18 years old that is showing normal (compared to other high end athletes)  incremental improvements over the last few years is going to take a large jump between 18 and 20 isn't that likely.

[TMK9973]

Peter -I just disagree with you.  I have seen kids that are so focused on acidemics they are not well rounded kids.  My son is sports.  Is he well rounded? Depends on how you judge. He does not do any other clubs other then sports. So you would say no.

My daughter plays soccer year round.  She is 12 and not sure if she wants to even play in college yet. She does want to play HS - but she also goes to STEM camp, does music, hell, there is not a aftershool club she DOESNT want to join.    

 

I just disagree because you seem to be very narrow minded when it comes to kids playing sports. You have this general core belief that if kids want to play college they only want to play D1. Then you have another core belief that all kids that are want to play college are doing it only because they want to play (or think they can play) at the next level after college.  You also have a general idea that playing sports in college will take away from Academics (For a lot of kids, partying and drinking take away from academics. Possible that for some student athletes sports took them away from partying and not from Academics? ) 

 

I get it. Your experiences create your world view. IT does for all of us.  Your experiences have lead you to a world view with these core beliefs.  Im just telling you - those core beliefs of yours are not actual facts.  

[Kilmer17]

Most D1 athletes arent going to make a living playing their chosen sport.  And almost all of them know that already.  I dont think it's a bad thing for a hs kid to have a dream to play D1 sports, just to play D1 sports.  The problem is (almost always) parents who dont stress the importance of the education side of college as well.   I know of no fewer than 10 friends that played D1 sports.  Baseball, basketball, swimming, volleyball, soccer, etc etc.  All of them are successful people.  None of them made a dollar playing their sport.  But I'm sure all of them put education ahead of sport.  It's very easy to look at the top D1 programs in football and basketball and think that everyplace is like that (sports first, constant travel, no time for class, or fake classes etc).  But that's not the reality for 99 percent of D1 athletes.

[PeterMP]

31 minutes ago, TMK9973 said:

Peter -I just disagree with you.  I have seen kids that are so focused on acidemics they are not well rounded kids.  My son is sports.  Is he well rounded? Depends on how you judge. He does not do any other clubs other then sports. So you would say no.

My daughter plays soccer year round.  She is 12 and not sure if she wants to even play in college yet. She does want to play HS - but she also goes to STEM camp, does music, hell, there is not a aftershool club she DOESNT want to join.    

 

I just disagree because you seem to be very narrow minded when it comes to kids playing sports. You have this general core belief that if kids want to play college they only want to play D1. Then you have another core belief that all kids that are want to play college are doing it only because they want to play (or think they can play) at the next level after college.  You also have a general idea that playing sports in college will take away from Academics (For a lot of kids, partying and drinking take away from academics. Possible that for some student athletes sports took them away from partying and not from Academics? ) 

 

I get it. Your experiences create your world view. IT does for all of us.  Your experiences have lead you to a world view with these core beliefs.  Im just telling you - those core beliefs of yours are not actual facts.  

 

This isn't true at all.  I have a niece that did play D3, which I've stated  Going back to my generation, I have a brother that played D3 and a sister that did.  I have another sister that did club field hockey all 4 years.  

 

And I certainly don't have a core belief that all D1 kids want to go pro.  I've taught D1 tennis players, but at 18 years old not already playing pro tennis, they know they are not going to play pro tennis.  

 

I have 2 non-olympic caliber D1 junior swimmers in a class this semester (a male and a female).  They know as juniors in swimming that aren't competing on the world stage already, they aren't going on in swimming (one of them is one of these people that are exceptional and was able to do a D1 sport and excel at other things and is applying to med school and will almost certainly get in at a good med school).

 

And yes, there are kids that aren't well rounded because they focus on education and yes there are a lot of kids out there where partying takes them away from academics.

 

But that doesn't change the fact that most kids don't have the ability to excel at sports at a high level, academics, and do other things that in many cases they should be doing (research, internships, workshops, mentoring programs, etc), especially in the context of a competitive college programs.

 

(I love when other people tell me what my core beliefs are.)

[TMK9973]

1 minute ago, PeterMP said:

 

(I love when other people tell me what my core beliefs are.)

As much as people like when you judge their kids based on the fact that they want to play College sports?

[PeterMP]

30 minutes ago, TMK9973 said:

As much as people like when you judge their kids based on the fact that they want to play College sports?

 

1.  Some kids can do college sports and keep everything else together.  If you have one of those kids, that's great, but that's rare (which I've already stated)

 

2.  There are kids out there that playing sports are going to open opportunities for them in terms of going to a college that they otherwise wouldn't have been able to do.  In those cases, it makes sense (which I've already stated).

 

3.  We should not ignore the role that society plays in kids developing their dream to college sports and for many kids that dream gets in the way of them developing a passion for other activities that would (more) positively affect their life.

 

4.  As a parent, it is a difficult thing to juggle and something that I personally as a parent am struggling with (which I've already stated).

 

If you see judgement in my statements to any particular parent/kid and not a person struggling to find a best path forward and how as a parent I can do better and as a society/culture we can do better, then I think that has more to do with you than me. 

 

(Realistically, I suspect you know that whether your son is a well balanced kid or not (and the likely long term ramifications of that) is not really a matter of my opinion or judgement.)

 

Now, I've really got to be done with this thread.

 

**EDIT**

If I've been critical of anybody in this thread, it is with ASF, but my criticism is less related to the idea of his son playing college sports and more ASF's idea that the fact that a sport turned out to be his son's passion is related to some genetic pre-destination then the fact that many other boys his age and likely contemporary and future peers also played sports and ASF put him into sports as a young child and not a poetry club, a science club, and a carpentry club.

[Kilmer17]

 

9 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

1.  Some kids can do college sports and keep everything else together.  If you have one of those kids, that's great, but that's rare (which I've already stated)

 

 

I think the exact opposite is true.  Almost every college athlete keeps everything else together, graduates, succeeds in life outside of whatever sport they were playing.

[AsburySkinsFan]

12 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

**EDIT**

If I've been critical of anybody in this thread, it is with ASF, but my criticism is less related to the idea of his son playing college sports and ASF's idea that the fact that a sport turned out to be his son's passion is related to some genetic pre-destination then the fact that many other boys his age and likely contemporary and future peers also played sports and ASF put him into sports as a young child and not a poetry club, a science club, and a carpentry club.

LOL! I'd love for you to meet my son. I'd love for you to have known him when he was two. If YOU would have stuck him in the science club or poetry club you'd have had a revolution on your hands and it's not because we brainwashed my son into athletics. It's because HE has a predisposition toward athletics. At two years old he came home from his hernia surgery and a couple hours later he was up playing basketball in the living room, he's been that way his whole life. But keep thinking that kids are blank slates that you can fill them with whatever you want to be in there like some empty hard drive. My son has tried a lot of different activities, HE chose soccer. 

[Burgold]

Another footnote to this discussion is how many of our careers match our degrees. A lot of reroute and audible after college. 

 

#wordplay

[Dan T.]

I'm just sad that my Kirk Cousins joke got lost in all this bickering.

[AsburySkinsFan]

34 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

I'm just sad that my Kirk Cousins joke got lost in all this bickering.

I read that and totally missed the "Kirk Cousins" aspect! Just reread it and that is funny!!

Dry humor, dry as popcorn farts!

[Dan T.]

Just now, AsburySkinsFan said:

I read that and totally missed the "Kirk Cousins" aspect! Just reread it and that is funny!!

Dry humor, dry as popcorn farts!

 

Thanks. I'm gonna see if I can get my username changed to Popcorn Farts.

[AsburySkinsFan]

37 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Another footnote to this discussion is how many of our careers match our degrees. A lot of reroute and audible after college. 

 

#wordplay

And why in the world do we expect that kids at 18-19 years old know what they want to do with the next 65 years!

It's why I tell both of my kids, "go to college, get a business degree. Use that degree in whatever field you find yourself in."

The sheer number of academically trained graduates who can't run their own businesses is insane. Doctors, engineers, etc all are trained employees because they don't know how to leverage their skills outside of an existing business.

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

Another footnote to this discussion is how many of our careers match our degrees. A lot of reroute and audible after college. 

 

#wordplay

 

That's an argument for more diverse experiences when they are younger so that they have a better idea of what they want to do earlier and have a more diverse background of experiences later if they change their minds to do something else.

 

That's an argument AGAINST what you see for most of the parents in this thread saying their kids are doing with respect to sports, including my daughter.

[Burgold]

36 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

That's an argument for more diverse experiences when they are younger so that they have a better idea of what they want to do earlier and have a more diverse background of experiences later if they change their minds to do something else.

I think this is one of those arguments where I can see both sides of the equation.

 

What I'd like to see for the athlete-student (I like that order better than student athlete for some D1ers) is a system a bit like the GI bill. They agree to play for their school and get food, lodging, etc, but then after their playing career is over they acrue a certain amount of free tuition. That way, after their playing career they could truly focus on being a student. While playing they are in essence paying to learn. There certainly would be more boxes to check and questions to answer to make this system work, but for many of the athletes in the top sports I think a system like this makes sense. For some, it would be an apprenticeship/audition for the pros, but if that doesn't pan out... they're time can be converted into a second scholarship where they can really focus on the books and their second career.