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CNN: Syria chemical attack victims gassed as they slept

visionary

By visionary
in The Tailgate

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Zazzaro703

Zazzaro703

Posted
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24 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

Assad is the pawn, Russia wants him I think Trump doesn't care but doesn't want to piss off Russia. I think Assad was acting on his own. To the annoyance of everyone.

He is on the verge of regaining his country and staying in power, but chooses to annoy everyone and piss it all down the drain? Again, that just doesn't seem likely. It seems more likely the rebels Obama was arming to fight him aren't being armed anymore because the current US admin WAS siding with Assad and Russia and knowing they are about to lose gassed those people. It was their only play left. Or ISIS did it to destabilize the region back into chaos turning us against Assad and the Russians.

 

I really wish a more thorough investigation was conducted before this strike. When Hillary Clinton just hours ago said she would have bombed the air field in response to the gassing and crazy John McCain approves of the strike... people just shouldn't feel good about this. Unless you are right and Assad just decided to throw away his control of the country right when he was about to win it back. You never know... but I'm sorry that just seems like the most unlikely option. For all of our sakes, I hope you are right.

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RansomthePasserby

RansomthePasserby

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7 minutes ago, Zazzaro703 said:

He is on the verge of regaining his country and staying in power, but chooses to annoy everyone and piss it all down the drain? Again, that just doesn't seem likely. It seems more likely the rebels Obama was arming to fight him aren't being armed anymore because the current US admin WAS siding with Assad and Russia and knowing they are about to lose gassed those people. It was their only play left. Or ISIS did it to destabilize the region back into chaos turning us against Assad and the Russians.

 

I really wish a more thorough investigation was conducted before this strike. When Hillary Clinton just hours ago said she would have bombed the air field in response to the gassing and crazy John McCain approves of the strike... people just shouldn't feel good about this. Unless you are right and Assad just decided to throw away his control of the country right when he was about to win it back. You never know... but I'm sorry that just seems like the most unlikely option. For all of our sakes, I hope you are right.

The US Military claims to have proof it was Assad per CNN, so we'll see.

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Zazzaro703

Zazzaro703

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@visionary

I have an honest question for you. You seem more dialed into the Middle East than anyone here. All we know about Syria and Assad is what we are told. Do you honestly think at this late stage of the game Assad would gas his own people knowing it would lead to him being removed from power? What is your take?

17 minutes ago, RansomthePasserby said:

The US Military claims to have proof it was Assad per CNN, so we'll see.

I hope so and I hope it's 100% smoking gun cannot be disputed evidence. I never claimed they didn't. I just think it's either unlikely, there is something bigger going on here when this is exactly what the NeoCons wanted or Assad really has lost his freaking mind or never had one to begin with. Something just smells fishy here. It's a complete Norv Turner Redskins move... self destructing and defeating yourself right when you are about to win.

 

Also to be clear, it's not my intention to take Assad's side either. He may be a complete Tyrant, I'm just questioning if he is really ignorant enough to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. That's all. With the support of the US and Russia it was only a matter of time before he regained complete control over Syria and most likely executed his opposition. Thats all gone now.

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The Sisko

The Sisko

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1 hour ago, Hersh said:

I applaud the move by Trump. It was both smarty politically and there isn't much downside. Russia doesn't want an actual war with the US so they won't do ****. Assad does not want the US targeting his military long term. I'm guessing Assad was testing boundaries and now he knows. 

 

Politically, most will respond favorably and with his approval rating in the toilet Trump may get a bump. I'm sure he also did it to separate himself with Obama because he talks tough and wanted to show toughness. Not that this is the only way to show toughness, but that is all Trump knows. 

While it was the right thing to do as long as it doesn't go too far, I think it was all but impossible for Dump to not to respond. He gets to look strong, go against the Putin puppet meme, redirect the news cycle for a while, and make an example of Assad for N. Korea. Oh, and it was the right thing to do, but since when did that ever factor into anything for Dump? 

 

44 minutes ago, redskins59 said:

 

The Middle East does not have any nature.  What you saw is a pattern.  You don't know that we will see the same pattern in 10 years.  

They are still religious zealots mostly.  So if a country has beautiful sky scrapers, but is extreme when it comes to religion that is not modern.  The people arent modern.

That area is important for Christians, lets face it due to the Bible. So if it is important, it needs to be fixed.  

Soooo, are you getting the irony in bashing them as religious zealots while in almost the same breath saying part of the reason we need to spend blood and treasure there is because it's important to Xtians? The only difference between Xtianity and radical Islam regarding extremist ideas and violence is that secular western ideals have held the former in check. Aside from that, these are not the Arabs/Muslims that the colonialists subjugated. They'll fight tooth and nail to the last man with the idea of slowly bleeding us dry Moreover,. we're not willing to go to the lengths the colonial powers did to subjugate them. Hell, the former colonial powers aren't willing to go to those lengths anymore. My personal opinion is the only way to reasonably do it is to go back to the old system, i.e. back repressive Arab governments to keep the Islamists in check and look the other way when they do ****ed up stuff. It sucks but it worked.

 

7 minutes ago, Zazzaro703 said:

@visionary

I have an honest question for you. You seem more dialed into the Middle East than anyone here. All we know about Syria and Assad is what we are told. Do you honestly think at this late stage of the game Assad would gas his own people knowing it would lead to him being removed from power? What is your take?

I hope so and I hope it's 100% smoking gun cannot be disputed evidence. I never claimed they didn't. I just think it's unlikely, there is something bigger going on here when this is exactly what the NeoCons wanted or Assad really has lost his freaking mind or never had one to begin with. Something just smells fishy here.

Please stop hearing hoofbeats and doing everything you can to believe it's zebras and not horses. Dump and Co. basically gave Assad the green light a few days ago with Spicer's supportive comments. When Assad hit the gas, they slapped him up side the head. It's either brilliant gamesmanship or just stumbling into good fortune after saying something dumb. Most likely it's the latter, but it's possible that the KKKeystone KKKops administration finally did something smart. 

 

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visionary

visionary

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Even without assurances from the US military, Turkey, Israel, and reports from the ground from medical experts, those who have been documenting the evidence, online, witnesses, and the guardian reporter who inspected the area, there's little reason to believe it was anyone other than the regime (perhaps with Russian assistance) that did this.  

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visionary

visionary

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I hope this is part of some larger well thought out strategy.  I guess we'll see.

The administration has made some conflicting and confusing statements about their plans for Syria the last few days.  I hope whatever we have in mind works out for the best.

 

 

 

 

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skinny21

skinny21

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1 hour ago, Zazzaro703 said:

@visionary

I have an honest question for you. You seem more dialed into the Middle East than anyone here. All we know about Syria and Assad is what we are told. Do you honestly think at this late stage of the game Assad would gas his own people knowing it would lead to him being removed from power? What is your take?

I hope so and I hope it's 100% smoking gun cannot be disputed evidence. I never claimed they didn't. I just think it's either unlikely, there is something bigger going on here when this is exactly what the NeoCons wanted or Assad really has lost his freaking mind or never had one to begin with. Something just smells fishy here. It's a complete Norv Turner Redskins move... self destructing and defeating yourself right when you are about to win.

 

Also to be clear, it's not my intention to take Assad's side either. He may be a complete Tyrant, I'm just questioning if he is really ignorant enough to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. That's all. With the support of the US and Russia it was only a matter of time before he regained complete control over Syria and most likely executed his opposition. Thats all gone now.

I would argue your take on the fallout from the use of chemical weapons.  

Assad knows he has the backing of Russia and Iran.  He knows that chemical weapons can cause more deaths while leaving less destruction to structures.  He's seen the reaction to Ukraine.  He saw the problems caused by regime change in Libya and Iraq.  Chemical weapons would be a huge advantage against the rebels and would help 1) decide the war and 2) hasten the conclusion.  He's used them before without major consequences.  I'm not even getting into the entanglement with ISIS.  

Then there's the matter of Trump's connections to Russia.  Even setting aside the idea of election coordination depth of partnership, Trump's words and stance are markedly pro Russia.  What are the chances Trump's response to a chemical attack would be outright war, with all that risks/entails?  

 

So, if war is very unlikely, Assad faces two realistic responses from the US, words or (relatively) minor action.  The former could be a green light to carry on, and the latter is essentially a slap on the wrist that Assad can choose to heed, or ignore.  

 

Just going by all of that, I'd argue the chances of him losing power from it was really slight, and therefore not quite the crazy move you (and the Russian interviewee from NPR last night) thought.  Interestingly, both of you seemed convinced that it could not have been Assad's doing because 'why would he?'.  

 

 

One last thing.  I'm having trouble reconciling your posts on this topic, with your posts from the Election thread.  So, because that and Russia are on my mind, I'm curious if you have checked if any of the articles/stories you posted in that thread originated in Russia?  

 

 

 

 

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RedskinsFan44

RedskinsFan44

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Couple of thoughts:

Doubt Assad did this without Putin's bllessing.  His fate is in Putin's hands.  I think it was a test of Trump.  And Trump let Putin know what was up, and gave a highly conventional response, although at odds with his position in 2013 and a week ago.

 

We aren't bombing Syria because Assad killed Syrian kids, we are bombing him because chemical weapons scare us.

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