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Moose & Squirrel v Boris & Natasha: what's the deal with the rooskies and trumpland?

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Afterwards Gingrich denied ever seeing Angelina Jolie nude in a movie, noting "Can you imagine any woman like that allowing herself to be filmed naked in front of the camera?"

He subsequently denied that Jeffrey Dahmer ever hurt anyone "Can you imagine a white guy being crazy enough to engage in cannabalism?"

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https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/01/trump-directing-cohen-lie-congress-impeachable/580756/

 

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“Assuming all the evidence adds up to the conclusion that the president asked Cohen to lie about the Russia deal, it’s evidence of conspiracy, of obstruction of justice, of suborning perjury,” said John Q. Barrett, a law professor at St. John’s and a former associate counsel in the Iran-Contra investigation. “It’s impeachment material.”

 

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“If true, this directly implicates the president in a conspiracy to obstruct justice or to make false statements to Congress, or as an aider and abettor to Cohen committing those crimes,” said Randall Eliason, a former U.S. attorney and a law professor at George Washington University. “Whether a sitting president can be indicted is a separate question, but there would be no wiggle room in terms of whether he was guilty of the offenses. The key, of course, is whether you can prove it and whether there is additional evidence beyond just Cohen’s word—and from the article, it sounds like there is.”

 

“Congress should hold the upcoming hearings with Cohen and otherwise try to gather evidence supporting these allegations. If they can be proven, I think Congress has to seriously consider beginning impeachment proceedings,” said Eliason. “There’s no question that obstructing justice by instructing a subordinate to lie to Congress in order to help yourself get elected is an impeachable offense.”

 

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“If President Trump instructed Michael Cohen to testify to Congress, giving an account of the Russia project that Trump knew to be false, that’s obstruction of justice,” said Bruce Green, a law professor at Fordham and a former associate counsel in the Iran-Contra investigation. “It’s hard to imagine that Trump would have had an innocent ‘state of mind.’ The only viable legal defense would be ‘It didn’t happen.’”

 

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“If it is true, and can be proven, that Trump directed Cohen to lie to Congress, then he has no wiggle room,” said Alex Whiting, a law professor at Harvard and a former federal prosecutor. “There has been some debate about whether acts by the president to curtail a criminal investigation can be obstruction, since he is the head of the executive [branch] … but instructing or encouraging another person to lie under oath to Congress falls outside of that debate. There is no question that it was a crime for Cohen to lie to Congress, and Trump’s role in soliciting or directing that lie makes him criminally liable as well.”

 

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In a couple months Rudy will be in CNN arguing the difference between suggesting and directing. "Is it a crime to suggest hypothetically someone lie to Congress?"

Edited by Cooked Crack
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Does the BuzzFeed report show that Trump obstructed justice? I asked 9 legal experts.
They all said yes.

 

https://www.vox.com/2019/1/18/18188125/trump-buzzfeed-mueller-cohen-obstruction

 

You can click the link to read through the various legal arguments and specific provisions of the US Code that are at issue.  This is a nice summary from one from on of them:

 

Quote

Renato Mariotti, former federal prosecutor, 2007 to 2016


Yes. If someone knowingly directs another person to lie to Congress, they are also guilty of lying to Congress. That is an easy question.

 

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31 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

In a couple months Rudy will be in CNN arguing the difference between suggesting and directing. "Is it a crime to suggest hypothetically someone lie to Congress?"

 

Or he could have given Cohen his perception of the truth/facts. 

 

Prosecutor:  you want me to prove what Trump believes/says is real?   :pint:

 

 

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1 hour ago, HOF44 said:

Deny, Deny, Deny. Deny till you die.  

 

Deny. Deny. Deny. (Move goalposts). Deny. Deny. (Move goalposts). 

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14 hours ago, Larry said:

 

"Well, all of these people who have testified that Trump ordered them to lie are confessed liars."

 

 

1 hour ago, visionary said:

 

 

 

 

Nailed it.

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Rudy's job all along has been to release "bombshells" so that by the time things get confirmed, the public has already digested them, thus insulating for their base and taking the steam out of a strong punch back by the left. He's the "normalizer." ...and it's been working.

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The last 2 years Trumps camp's main objective has been to poison the well of information.  Create the "Deep state out to get Trump" narrative so in the instance where the investigation goes on long enough to start producing results, there will already be a built in distrust of the results from Trump supporters and likely a portion of the general GOP base.

 

The next 6-8 months will likely give us a good indication of how well that strategy has worked, although in recent days we've seen even some Fox pundits starting to change their tune and for most of the GOP base that is their direct (not to mention) only line of what they consider useful information. If Fox turns on Trump, it's pretty much over. 

 

No surprise that Trump is in zero rush to have a functioning Gov't in which the Democrats hold the majority in the house.  He will likely ride this wall funding nonsense out as long as he can as a last bastion of protection from the inevtiable. 

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The majority of the public has already turned on Trump when it comes to the shutdown and wall funding. The longer this goes on and the more it craters our country, the GOP will shoulder the blame for enabling this for most people. 

 

It seems like a massively loser strategy to use the shutdown to weaken coverage of the Russia misdeeds. I think there is a real chance that the two issues will actually additively boost each other in riling up public frustration. 

 

This is just the beginning of what is going to be a wild year. By the end of it, the country will be much worse off. I have a bad feeling that whoever comes next will have to expend substantial resources on just cleaning up the mess. 

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7 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

This is just the beginning of what is going to be a wild year. By the end of it, the country will be much worse off. I have a bad feeling that whoever comes next will have to expend substantial resources on just cleaning up the mess. 

 

Yep and we all saw how much "appreciation" Obama received for cleaning up a mess during the majority of his term.

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9 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

Yep and we all saw how much "appreciation" Obama received for cleaning up a mess during the majority of his term.

 

Whoever is next is going to have to have an EPIC apology tour.  

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6 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Whoever is next is going to have to have an EPIC apology tour.  

 

Foreign relations are going to be worse than what Bush admin left behind. 

 

I can only think of a few agencies that have been spared Trumpian wrath. From my experience, NASA, FDA, NIH and NSF have been able to continue their mission without much bull****. 

 

The EPA, State, HUD and Education will need a massive overhaul. I am probably missing a lot more. 

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4 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

Foreign relations are going to be worse than what Bush admin left behind. 

 

I can only think of a few agencies that have been spared Trumpian wrath. From my experience, NASA, FDA, NIH and NSF have been able to continue their mission without much bull****. 

 

The EPA, State, HUD and Education will need a massive overhaul. I am probably missing a lot more. 

 

State will have to be rebuilt entirely, and SO MUCH attention is going to have to go into rebuilding alliances and trade pacts.   And punishing Russia.  

 

CFPB is a shell of its former self, and just swore in a Director with a 5 year term (but so far, she doesn't seem completely awful).  The GSE's (Fannie and Freddie, which have an enormous impact on housing) are in disarray and remain under conservatorship.  Justice actually seems like it has endured the worst attacks and is okay, but will need a serious morale boost.  

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Media needs to get GOP senators to state their position (or lack thereof) on the record.  If Trump instructed Cohen to lie to Congress, will you vote to convict on impeachment?  

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58 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

Yep and we all saw how much "appreciation" Obama received for cleaning up a mess during the majority of his term.

 

 

Beat me to it, NoCal. The repubs crap everywhere and then b*tch about the poor conditions while the dems mop it up.

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27 minutes ago, Chachie said:

 

 

Beat me to it, NoCal. The repubs crap everywhere and then b*tch about the poor conditions while the dems mop it up.

 

Just wait till the economy takes a big hit, when we were already running these deficits under a "great" economy

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Anybody heard any Republicans at all trying to justify voting to lift sanctions on Russia?  

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