The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[XtremeFan55]

13 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Not directed at you - but this is just the media guys doubling down on their personal impressions. Again, not directed at you, but I find is interesting how many people ignore the comments of the people in the room - McCartney at this point.  @Skinsinparadise posted actual statements from Kirk's agent. Reposted since it's buried a few pages back. So should we believe Kirk's agent and Rich Tandler or the NFL media?

 

Just listened to Mike McCartney, Kirk's agent on Sirrius.  Highlights:

 

Kirk likes playing for the Redskins and McCartney said something to the effect of ideally he wants to stay in Washington

Redskins sending a message by giving him the exclusive tag -- shows they think he's a franchise guy

The 24 million tag sets his value

He has had exchanges with the Redskins, negotiations have been going on back and forth and its been positive

He is going to meet with Eric Schaffer this week to talk some more

He was asked if they are thinking about trade -- he said not at all, and ditto when he and Kirk talk, being traded not part of conversation

 

Edit:  I see Tandler's post above about talking to Schaffer next week, thought he said this week but maybe misheard it.  We've had conversations here about guessing the mood of Kirk and his agent.  Listening to McCartney talk -- the vibe he gives off is they will get this done, he seemed upbeat about it.   Throwing some love at the Redskins -- implying the process has been smooth, he likes dealing with Schaffer, Kirk likes being a Redskins, etc.  I still think though they need to hit at least that 24 million mark.  McCartney more or less said that the 24 million sets his value, they asked him about Luck's contract and McCartney said its relevant to today's QB market along with the cap rising.     

 

If I had to pull one definitive point about that interview is the idea that Kirk can't wait to get out of town is utter nonsense.

 

 

Of course you are going to be saying nice things after being handed a $24 million check.  ?

[DM72]

28 minutes ago, GOSKINS_08 said:

Adam Schefter didn't seem too confident that we want to or are gonna want to put down enough money to want to sign him. That was on 980 this morning. Basically he had a very pessimistic outlook on it for the pro long term deal people.

 

Schefter and ESPN has an obvious bias against the Redskins. Take whatever they say with a grain of salt. They want the Redskins to mess up so bad and yesterday's news had to come as a shock. Especially after hearing Cousins agent.

[Unbias]

13 hours ago, PortisBetts said:

Until someone from Redskins park says anything, everything is conjecture and guessing games.

 

They spoke today by tagging him. Now they move on to a long term deal.

 

If you think Kirk is going to hit the open market and make 28-30 million a year, you are out of your ****ing mind. He either gets traded or gets a LTD. Those are literally the only options. Aside from the fact that no one is going to pay that ludicrous price next year because it is truly just crazy. Everyone keeps bringing up the 3rd year tag. The Redskins are NEVER going to do that, so you can just scrap that as any point of negotiation.

 

I dont feel like typing anymore. Wake me when there is more real news and not talking heads speculating off of darts being thrown at a board.

 

Edit- If you wonder why SM hasnt spoken to the media, nor Gruden, nor Bruce, is because there is no reason to give the media ANYTHING to talk about. You dont think that the Redskins are saying that to Kirk? "Kirk, no one at Redskins park is talking to the media. Our full attention is on getting a deal done with you, working on free agency, and scouting for the draft. We are fully enveloped on building this team and making it as ready as possible for multiple runs at the super bowl."

 

I think $28-30M/year might be what his contract would look like in 2018. 

 

Last year it was rumored he wanted $20M/yr, they offered $16M/yr.

 

This year it's rumored he's looking for $24M/yr and I'm not sure what Washington is offering.

 

Here's how things probably look from Kirk's side (not cap number, but money in his pocket):

• 2016 he received $20M from the tag
• ·         2017 he’ll receive $24M from the tag
• ·         2018 he’ll receive a signing bonus on whatever contract he signs with guaranteed money.

 

Let’s say in 2018 he signs a deal worth $25M/year season and $60M guaranteed where $30M is a signing bonus (I think this is fair).

 

He will have gotten $74M (20+24+30) in his pants over a 3 year span! That’s crazy!!!

 

To put that into perspective Andrew Luck currently is the highest paid QB and he did his deal the last offseason (June of 2016). The deal was a 5 year, ~$123M deal with $87M guaranteed ($32M signing bonus). Over the first 3 years of that deal he’d make:

 

• ·         2016 he receives $32M signing bonus and $12M in salary
• ·         2017 he receives $7M in salary and $6M in roster bonus
• ·         2018 he receives $12M in salary (not guaranteed) and $6M in a roster bonus.
•  

So, the highest paid QB in the league (not named Kirk Cousins) will make $63M guaranteed over a 3 year span, whereas Kirk will make $74M!!!!

 

I can't blame Kirk for wanting to get the most money in a 3 year period (2016-2018) if Washington wasn't willing to lock him up earlier. It's sort of his way of him just taking advantage of what's falling in his lap while risking a long term injury.

 

IMO Kirk's talent isn't All-pro, so he's got to see this as the biggest contract he'll ever get. 

[Gizmo 3squire]

1 hour ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

"Frankly, once you sign the contract, there's no law saying you can’t renegotiate," the quarterback said. "If you sign the deal and you end up coming away from two seasons saying, ‘Hey, you know, not only did we not win but I think the reason is it’s I’m taking too much,’ then you can always talk about changing that. But I don’t see a need to do that on the front end."

 

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/kirk-cousins-contract-talks-im-not-trying-suck-out-every-dollar-possible

 

That's real. Respect, and thank you for the link. 

As each day passes, im feeling more confident that they'll do a LTD before July. Hope my gut feeling is right, so that way we can shift towards the Draft and FA.

And the media can shut up. But then it'll be Kirk was overpaid hurrr durrr.

[Skinsinparadise]

INDIANAPOLIS -- The Washington Redskins slapped the franchise tag on Kirk Cousins Tuesday, marking the first time a team has franchised the same quarterback on two occasions. But head coach Jay Gruden remains hopeful of agreeing to a long-term contract.

"I think it'll happen; I really do," Gruden told a small group of reporters at the combine Wednesday morning. "We'll wait and see."

The Redskins gave Cousins the nonexclusive tag last year and hit him with the exclusive tag this year, the latter meaning he cannot negotiate with other teams. Cousins is currently lined up to make $23.94 million under the tag in 2017, but both sides can negotiate on a long-term deal until July 15.

"Both parties have to come up with something," Gruden said. "We can offer him the world, but if he doesn't want to sign it, he doesn't have to sign it. And then we have to do maybe a better job."

Cousins was a fourth-round pick out of Michigan State in 2012 and spent the vast majority of his first three years backing up Robert Griffin III. Over the past two years, though, he shined as the starting quarterback under former offensive coordinator Sean McVay, who is now head coach of the Los Angeles Rams.

In 2015, Cousins recovered from a sluggish start by throwing 23 touchdown passes to just three interceptions over the last 10 games, leading the Redskins to the NFC East title. Washington then hit Cousins with the franchise tag, which paid him $19.953 million in 2016. Cousins responded with another solid season, throwing for a career-high 4,917 yards with 25 touchdown passes and 12 interceptions while just barely missing the playoffs.

The Redskins could still trade Cousins, but Gruden made it seem like that isn't even a possibility.

"We'd like to keep Kirk here, obviously, and we think he's going to be our quarterback for a long time," he said. "We'll have an opportunity to negotiate with him and get a long-term deal. That's what we wanted to do. Just move forward and tag him, try to get a deal done and go from there."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18796371/washington-redskins-coach-jay-gruden-confident-team-come-agreement-kirk-cousins

[goskins10]

11 minutes ago, XtremeFan55 said:

Of course you are going to be saying nice things after being handed a $24 million check.  ?

 

This continues to the most lame response to actual data from the real people. Well what is he supposed to say. He could have said nothing. Why even take the interview.

 

Again, a lame ass response to a person in the room providing actual information.

 

 

[goskins10]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

INDIANAPOLIS -- The Washington Redskins slapped the franchise tag on Kirk Cousins Tuesday, marking the first time a team has franchised the same quarterback on two occasions. But head coach Jay Gruden remains hopeful of agreeing to a long-term contract.

"I think it'll happen; I really do," Gruden told a small group of reporters at the combine Wednesday morning. "We'll wait and see."

Edit

"We'd like to keep Kirk here, obviously, and we think he's going to be our quarterback for a long time," he said. "We'll have an opportunity to negotiate with him and get a long-term deal. That's what we wanted to do. Just move forward and tag him, try to get a deal done and go from there."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18796371/washington-redskins-coach-jay-gruden-confident-team-come-agreement-kirk-cousins

 

 

What else is he going to say? It's clear he actually hates Kirk because he is getting too much credit for the offensive success. That's why he ran off McShay to be a Head Coach instead of keeping him here to be an OC. Typical Redskins dysfunction!

 

I bet the next thing is Bruce says he wants Kirk long term! I mean why would he want a successful QB when we all know McCoy is actually his favorite. I heard they go bowling together every Thursday.

[Peregrine]

You know, I think this quote from McCartney is interesting, " “We’re sitting here today, we’ve had a one-year offer placed on Kirk that says he’s worth $24 million,” he said. “Kirk didn’t ask for that, I didn’t ask for that. The club chose to put that one him. Now, we’re very, very appreciative of that. We recognize that that’s a commitment from a club and they’re sending a message by making it non-exclusive that they see him as a franchise quarterback. And they’re willing to do that for one year. But that’s his value right now, until we do a deal.” "

 

I dont think Im reading too much into it to say this implies he would accept less than 24 million per year.  The last line says "But thats his value right now, until we do a deal".  Now certainly you wouldnt say that if the LTD price was higher.  If you were negotiating, you would go "Thats a starting point for a one year rental, but obviously for a long term deal its got to be higher, but I think we will work things out".  "Until we do a deal" means that number WILL change.  The only options are higher, or lower.

[jbird2]

Here's hoping he gets offered the largest contract in the NFL, and he signs, and go on to lead the Skins to 5-8 Super Bowls!

 

YOU LIKE THAT!!!! lol

[Skinsinparadise]

Just listened to Mike Jones on 106.7. 

 

Jay is the guy pushing for Kirk the most behind the scenes -- saying look if they move on they still need to find a QB and ultimately pay them big so why not pay Kirk.  They want to keep him, not trade him.    Jay has a lot of confidence in Kirk, etc was the gist of it.

 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just listened to Mike Jones on 106.7. 

 

Jay is the guy pushing for Kirk the most behind the scenes -- saying look if they move on they still need to find a QB and ultimately pay them big so why not pay Kirk.  They want to keep him, not trade him.    Jay has a lot of confidence in Kirk, etc was the gist of it.

 

 

Jay's job depends on it. 

 

He doesn't' need to be going into year 4 starting over at QB regardless of how much he likes Kirk. 

 

Hail. 

[KokoMike]

Long article on Cousins at 10 am:

 

Kirk Cousins' trade value and the NFL-wide impact of the drama in D.C.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18793866/kirk-cousins-trade-value-nfl-wide-impact-drama-dc-2017-nfl-offseason

[markmills67]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just listened to Mike Jones on 106.7. 

 

Jay is the guy pushing for Kirk the most behind the scenes -- saying look if they move on they still need to find a QB and ultimately pay them big so why not pay Kirk.  They want to keep him, not trade him.    Jay has a lot of confidence in Kirk, etc was the gist of it.

 

Just get it done, $25m per year average with about $75m guaranteed.

 

HTTR 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, KokoMike said:

Long article on Cousins at 10 am:

 

Kirk Cousins' trade value and the NFL-wide impact of the drama in D.C.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18793866/kirk-cousins-trade-value-nfl-wide-impact-drama-dc-2017-nfl-offseason

 

interesting point made in that article

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18793866/kirk-cousins-trade-value-nfl-wide-impact-drama-dc-2017-nfl-offseason

 

Cousins wasn't accruing yardage by checking down and letting his receivers do the work.

The average pass in that situation traveled 8.5 yards in the air. Cousins' average throw on these drives traveled 9.3 yards in the air, the seventh-highest mark in the league. In fact, Cousins got virtually no help from his receivers on those throws. They produced an average of 3.7 yards after catch on Cousins' completions on those 15-percent-or-less drives, which was the lowest mark for any quarterback. 

[markmills67]

If we can sign him to a LTD soon, what cap hit would we be looking at in 17.

 

HTTR 

[grego]

52 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

What else is he going to say? It's clear he actually hates Kirk because he is getting too much credit for the offensive success. That's why he ran off McShay to be a Head Coach instead of keeping him here to be an OC. Typical Redskins dysfunction!

 

I bet the next thing is Bruce says he wants Kirk long term! I mean why would he want a successful QB when we all know McCoy is actually his favorite. I heard they go bowling together every Thursday.

Ya had me going there for a sec...... 

[HTTRDynasty]

I want Kirk back, don't get me wrong.  But for those saying the minimum average the Redskins must pay per year is $24 million because that is the cost of the tag, do you guys also think the minimum average the Rams must pay Trumaine Johnson per year is $16 million in any new deal because that is the cost of his tag?

 

Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter

Rams placed franchise tag on CB Trumaine Johnson, per source. Another player tagged before today's 4 pm deadline.

Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter

With today's franchise tag, Rams CB Trumaine Johnson is now scheduled to be NFL's highest-paid CB at $16 million.

 

That's why I have always said that reason doesn't make much sense to me.  Now if you said Cousins would get more per year compared to his tag figure on the open market than Johnson would, that would make more sense.  But saying $24 million is the minimum average per year we must pay just because that is the tag figure has always been ridiculous IMO.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I want Kirk back, don't get me wrong.  But for those saying the minimum average the Redskins must pay per year is $24 million because that is the cost of the tag, do you guys also think the minimum average the Rams must pay Trumaine Johnson per year is $16 million in any new deal because that is the cost of his tag?

 

Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter

Rams placed franchise tag on CB Trumaine Johnson, per source. Another player tagged before today's 4 pm deadline.

Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter

With today's franchise tag, Rams CB Trumaine Johnson is now scheduled to be NFL's highest-paid CB at $16 million.

 

That's why I have always said that reason doesn't make much sense to me.  Now if you said Cousins would get more per year compared to his tag figure on the open market than Johnson would, that would make more sense.  But saying $24 million is the minimum average per year we must pay just because that is the tag figure has always been ridiculous IMO.

 

The point is for me and I've seen others make that point too is that's what Kirk likely gets in the free market.  The tag figure just happens to coincide with it.  Heck if a receiver is now getting 17 million a year.  A QB getting 24 million a year doesn't seem outlandish at all.  Salaries are clearly being pushing up this offseason -- it was just being discussed on 106.7 that Pierre and Desean aren't likely anymore to just get 9-10 million a year, they are likely to get more than that. 

 

The question is would the Bears, Jets, 49ers or whomever pay Kirk 24 million on the open market?  The thought by NFL insiders is yes.  Heck i heard talk today that Glennon might get 15 million a year.    Teams are paying a premium for marquee players and for QBs.  It just is what it is.   Seems like thus far, Bruce is being a contrarian and betting against the market -- and he's losing that bet and big time.

[Cliffmark1]

Really 22 or 23 likely with maybe 3 years guaranteed on a 5/6 year deal I am sure get's this done. 

[HTTRDynasty]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The point is for me and I've seen others make that point too is that's what Kirk likely gets in the free market.  The tag figure just happens to coincide with it.  Heck if a receiver is now getting 17 million a year.  A QB getting 24 million a year doesn't seem outlandish at all.  Salaries are clearly being pushing up this offseason -- it was just being discussed on 106.7 that Pierre and Desean aren't likely anymore to just get 9-10 million a year, they are likely to get more than that. 

 

The question is would the Bears, Jets, 49ers or whomever pay Kirk 24 million on the open market?  The thought by NFL insiders is yes.  Heck i heard talk today that Glennon might get 15 million a year.    Teams are paying a premium for marquee players and for QBs.  It just is what it is.   Seems like thus far, Bruce is being a contrarian and betting against the market -- and he's losing that bet and big time.

 

I understand that.  My post was for those who just used the tag being at $24 million as the reason that we didn't have a chance to pay Kirk an APY anything below that.

[Cliffmark1]

We could pay KC less than 24 but it would be more upfront and longer. Present Value of a Dollar gentleman. 

[MassSkinsFan]

I'm looking forward to a LTD soon.

 

We need to let our FO focus on the other pieces of the puzzle. 

 

Thanks @Skinsinparadise for that interesting tidbit about Cousins' throws and YAC. Looks like we now know Stephen A. Smith's source: Stephen A. Smith.

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I understand that.  My post was for those who just used the tag being at $24 million as the reason that we didn't have a chance to pay Kirk an APY anything below that.

 

OK yeah if the point is technically you can pay less, yeah that's true.  It's unlikely though he gets paid less per year.   But agree there is a chance that you can pay less.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

If I'm Jay Gruden I make it simple. Either you extend Kirk, or you extend Gruden three years on the spot. Otherwise, there is nothing Jay can do in this coming year to earn his own extension.

[Morneblade]

I'm going to be very happy when a LTD finally gets done this spring. And it will.