The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, petedaddy said:

 

You also do not want to end up in our current situation when there was opportunity to avoid it

 

 

 

And what situation is that? Kirk Cousins is still under contract the Washington Redskins. They have until tomorrow to work out a deal, tag him, or decide to let him walk. Signing him last year for $20M/yr would have been a huge risk. A much bigger risk than giving him the tag and having to pay more than you want on a LTD agreement now - which BTW even though people keep completely ignoring this fact and being in total panic mode - they have until July 15th. Not to mention they have positioned themselves in terms of CAP and contracts to absorb such a contract.

 

The really fun part is that tomorrow could come and go and we still may not have a final answer. See Von Miller contract negotiations.

[petedaddy]

3 minutes ago, CTskin said:

Kirk was ecstatic to sign the tag last year and then prove he was worth a LTD... Don't forget, a lot of people on this board weren't on board with paying Kirk $20M/yr; there were a lot of questions with him that even the biggest Kirk supporters couldn't deny. Now that hindsight is 20/20, everyone's coming out of the woodwork saying what a mistake it was.

 

It was a big mistake...I said it last year as did many of us

[clskinsfan]

Just now, CTskin said:

Kirk was ecstatic to sign the tag last year and then prove he was worth a LTD... Don't forget, a lot of people on this board weren't on board with paying Kirk $20M/yr; there were a lot of questions with him that even the biggest Kirk supporters couldn't deny. Now that hindsight is 20/20, everyone's coming out of the woodwork saying what a mistake it was.

Exactly. He could have just as easily been a bust last year. Many of us felt it was a 50/50 chance. And lets not pretend Kirk was some incredible QB last year. He was awful in the redzone. And still cost us a shot at the playoffs with bone headed mistakes in the final 3 games that mattered. I hope we sign him. But if the demands we are hearing are correct good riddance. He is not worth paying like the top player in the league. Period. 

[Rattlesnake88]

6 minutes ago, CTskin said:

Now that hindsight is 20/20, everyone's coming out of the woodwork saying what a mistake it was.

This x1000.

 

I don't recall many people what so ever screaming for the LTD to get done last year. Now after the chips fell, we have the armchair GM's and media sharks clamouring about "botching" the situation. Honestly **** Kirk if he won't take a market deal here with the Skins. I'm down to see him go if any of these(Kirk won't sign with Skins) reports have merit. 

[petedaddy]

Just now, Rattlesnake88 said:

This x1000.

 

I don't recall many people what so ever screaming for the LTD to get done last year. Now after the chips fell, we have the armchair GM's and media sharks clamping about "botching" the situation. Honestly **** Kirk if he won't take a market deal here with the Skins. I'm down to see him go if any of these reports have merit. 

 

See the Kirk thread last year...A lot of us begged to get the deal done then

 

There are no reports Kirk will not sign a deal here

[Taylor 36]

I think everyone is reading the Keim tweet the wrong way.  I think that Keim's tweet is trying to say that IF Cousins was traded, the only team he would do a LTD with is SF, not that he won't do one here.  Basically, I think it's Kirk's agent's way of saying you better not trade for him if you are Cleveland cause he won't be there next year.

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

8 minutes ago, CTskin said:

Kirk was ecstatic to sign the tag last year and then prove he was worth a LTD... Don't forget, a lot of people on this board weren't on board with paying Kirk $20M/yr; there were a lot of questions with him that even the biggest Kirk supporters couldn't deny. Now that hindsight is 20/20, everyone's coming out of the woodwork saying what a mistake it was.

 

Many of us thought 20 mil per was reasonable last offseason. I assumed the skins offered in that ballpark but Kirk wanted 24 per and that was where the disagreement was. 

 

If 20 mil per would have gotten it done last year, thats on the FO imo. 

 

Disappointed in Scot and Co. (If indeed 20 mil would have done it last year)

6 minutes ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

This x1000.

 

I don't recall many people what so ever screaming for the LTD to get done last year. Now after the chips fell, we have the armchair GM's and media sharks clamouring about "botching" the situation. Honestly **** Kirk if he won't take a market deal here with the Skins. I'm down to see him go if any of these(Kirk won't sign with Skins) reports have merit. 

 

Huh??? 

 

I clearly remember many of the Kirk supporters wanting a LTD done last year. 

 

 

[Cliffmark1]

It is hilarious all these posts assuming our D will be great if we trade Kirk.  It sucked in 2014, 2015 when Kirk wasn't making much.  We also have a pretty big question about the ability of our new D coordinator. 

[NoCalMike]

Yeah from my memory it wasn't the team not wanting to sign him long term that was an issue, it was the two sides not agreeing on how much he should get paid.  The front office basically said to Kirk, if that is how you want to be paid, go out and prove you deserve that much. After his 2016 season that difference of opinion seems to still be there and now both sides are trying to figure out how to proceed.  It's the business side of the sport that will happen for any QB not named Brady, Rodgers, Brees, or Rothelisburger?

[Cliffmark1]

5 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

I think everyone is read the Keim tweet the wrong way.  I think that Keim's tweet is trying to say that IF Cousins was traded, the only team he would do a LTD with is SF, not that he won't do one here.  Basically, I think it's Kirk's agent's way of saying you better not trade for him if you are Cleveland cause he won't be there next year.

 

that is how I read it too.

8 minutes ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

This x1000.

 

I don't recall many people what so ever screaming for the LTD to get done last year. Now after the chips fell, we have the armchair GM's and media sharks clamouring about "botching" the situation. Honestly **** Kirk if he won't take a market deal here with the Skins. I'm down to see him go if any of these(Kirk won't sign with Skins) reports have merit. 

I was pretty adamant about it.  I recall others were too.  I think we could have had him for like 18 or 19 million last year.  Basically the skins are a year behind,  they could have had him for 16 per year two years ago, not last year.  This year I think they want him for 20, not going to happen, its 23-24 per year now.  

[Rattlesnake88]

@petedaddy @Why am I Mr. Pink?

 

On here there were quite a few I just meant the average football fan and media mostly. 

 

I was one of the Kirk for LTD last year on the site so no I haven't forgotten how things were. I'm just frustrated and will now wait until tomorrow for any further rants

[TD_washingtonredskins]

10 minutes ago, petedaddy said:

 

See the Kirk thread last year...A lot of us begged to get the deal done then

 

 

 

Seriously, good post! It was less of a sure thing, no debate. But there were plenty of people last year who cited the same facts that we're hearing this year...

 

1) The salary cap is only going to increase

2) This year's free-spending will look like next year's bargain

3) It's better to lock him in long-term rather than rent him

 

Again, it wasn't as black and white as it is now, but he had just come off a pretty good stretch of 10-12 games where the passing game was the primary reason we had a winning record (I won't credit him for the division title since typically 9-7 won't win you one of those). 

[Rattlesnake88]

11 minutes ago, Cliffmark1 said:

 its 23-24 per year now.  

Are you sure about that? We will see soon I suppose. Because the way it's looking now, 23-24 was his price two weeks ago if we had jumped all over it. 

[ThomasRoane]

19 minutes ago, petedaddy said:

 

It was a big mistake...I said it last year as did many of us

 

Right, I was one.  I believed that Kirk would have been a valuable asset regardless of how he played in 2016.  It's the law of supply and demand.  The demand for QB's is high and the supply is low.  How else does guys like Hoyer continue to get jobs?!?!  The FO pissed away their leverage.  Now Kirk has them where he wants them.  Please do not insult us with the talk about being frugal.  Frugal teams don't outbid themselves with a monster contract for one DB when they needed a D-Line, pass rusher, and at least one safety before the first game. 

[Unbias]

4 minutes ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

Are you sure about that? We will see soon I suppose. Because the way it's looking now, 23-24 was his price two weeks ago if we had jumped all over it. 

 

I'm still wondering if 23-24 is what the middle ground would be (i.e. the expected contract) or is that what Kirk's side is asking.

[Peregrine]

So if we are to believe all of this stuff the media has put out, with zero sources, it would be that:

 

A. Kirk Cousins knows he holds all of the cards, is really smart, and wants as much money as possible, he wants to go to the highest bidder

B. Kirk Cousins has inexplicably then limited himself to the SF 49ers.

 

A and B are contradictory.  If someone held all of the cards, and was in it for the most money possible, why would they limit themself to one team who now knows they get a discount?  That means *gasp* at least half of this must be made up, if not all of it.

[XtremeFan55]

If what I am reading is accurate then the whole Cousins fiasco is on Bruce Allen.  Apparently, Scot McCloughan is the talent evaluator....Bruce Allen is the money man who determines how much to spend on players.   Scot's job was to pound the table and convince Allen and Snyder that Cousins was a much better quarterback than RG3 before the 2015 season.  Allen's job is to determine how much to pay him.  Since both McCloughan and Gruden want Cousins to remain as the Redskins quarterback...the holdup seems to be entirely in the hands of Bruce Allen and possibly Dan Snyder who are reluctant to pay Cousins asking price.  Cousins is as good as gone and the Redskins will again sink back down to mediocrity and blame Gruden and McCloughan when the blame is entirely on Allen and Snyder.   We then go back and start over once again with new coaches, new GM, and trying to find the next rare and elusive franchise quarterback after letting one slip thru our fingers.   Welcome to the new 'Factory of Sadness'.....   The only act that will show that things have changed will be for Snyder to fire Bruce Allen.  

[Unbias]

26 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

 

Many of us thought 20 mil per was reasonable last offseason. I assumed the skins offered in that ballpark but Kirk wanted 24 per and that was where the disagreement was. 

 

If 20 mil per would have gotten it done last year, thats on the FO imo. 

 

Disappointed in Scot and Co. (If indeed 20 mil would have done it last year)

 

It was nfl.com that reported that Washington offered $16M per year and $24M guaranteed. The article also made it seem like that was their offer and they didn't really move much from it.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Keim has never been one to just put stuff out there just because.  I must imagine he's getting that from somewhere and isn't just made up of thin air.  

 

Its time for for everyone on all sides to face facts that either the Skins pay Kirk exactly what he wants, exactly how he wants or he is no longer going to be a Redskin be it this season or next.

[Unbias]

5 minutes ago, XtremeFan55 said:

If what I am reading is accurate then the whole Cousins fiasco is on Bruce Allen.  Apparently, Scot McCloughan is the talent evaluator....Bruce Allen is the money man who determines how much to spend on players.   Scot's job was to pound the table and convince Allen and Snyder that Cousins was a much better quarterback than RG3 before the 2015 season.  Allen's job is to determine how much to pay him.  Since both McCloughan and Gruden want Cousins to remain as the Redskins quarterback...the holdup seems to be entirely in the hands of Bruce Allen and possibly Dan Snyder who are reluctant to pay Cousins asking price.  Cousins is as good as gone and the Redskins will again sink back down to mediocrity and blame Gruden and McCloughan when the blame is entirely on Allen and Snyder.   We then go back and start over once again with new coaches, new GM, and trying to find the next rare and elusive franchise quarterback after letting one slip thru our fingers.   Welcome to the new 'Factory of Sadness'.....   The only act that will show that things have changed will be for Snyder to fire Bruce Allen.  

 

I think it's too tough tell. Let's say both Scot and Jay publicly like Kirk, but behind closed doors they say to Bruce that he's a 7/10 and to not overpay. From there Bruce is trying to negotiate a 'good' QB deal when the market dictates he offers a 'franchise' type deal. 

 

The truth is that we'll never know. Sad, but true. 

[DJD2]

2 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

So if we are to believe all of this stuff the media has put out, with zero sources, it would be that:

 

A. Kirk Cousins knows he holds all of the cards, is really smart, and wants as much money as possible, he wants to go to the highest bidder

B. Kirk Cousins has inexplicably then limited himself to the SF 49ers.

 

A and B are contradictory.  If someone held all of the cards, and was in it for the most money possible, why would they limit themself to one team who now knows they get a discount?  That means *gasp* at least half of this must be made up, if not all of it.

 

Not necessarily contradictory if you look at it from the big picture standpoint.

By telling the Redskins that he will only sign with SF *this year*, that hamstrings their ability to negotiate with other teams and unload him, meaning their only option really is to then franchise him and have him play on the tag again in 2017.

Then, next year the tag is no longer an option and the field  (and potential payday) for Cousins widens.

There is risk involved on Cousins side in doing this (injury, ****ty play, etc.).

 

I'm still not convinced a LTD doesn't get done before tomorrow though. 

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

21 hours ago, Bonez3 said:

KC's camp really does hold all the chips. If they went to the table and said, 'here's our proposal...'. Than, follow with a Pittsburgh Steeler policy that 'if you tag KC in any fashion, we won't negotiate again until next year'.

 

Basically, if I were KC's agent, I would assure the FO that if a tag gets put on, you won't hear from us until 2018. That would make the Skins on the hook for 34 mil in 2018 if they wanted to guarantee to keep him. 

 

This is a Ponzi scheme with the FO on the losing end keep pushing more money in with higher prices each turn. They really need a LTD soon and not let this get in any further. 

 

I swear, if I was KC's agent, I would assure them he is signing his autograph one time, you better make it worth your while.

 

It is not a ponzi scheme lol  

 

If you think they need to address the FT rules and make changes in the next CBA, fine.  But the current system in place was accepted and signed off on by the owners and players association.  Kirk is only doing what he is allowed to do, just like the team is.  

[Unbias]

From the fans stance this is getting uglier. With Kirk saying he'd only do a LTD with SF that greatly reduces Washington's ability to negotiate with other teams and ultimately bid up the selling price. 

 

It feels like Kirk is telling Washington they have 3 options: 

 

1 - Give him the LTD he wants

2 - Trade him to SF

3 - Franchise him and they will have to be the highest bidder to keep him next year

[PigskinRedskin]

Did Kirk actually say that its only SF, or is just more sources?

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

46 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

Is there any chance Cousins signs a LTD with the Skins before franchise tag deadline? Just get the deal done Snyder and Co. 

 

All reports (speculation) indicate that he will not because they want the team to tag him first so they can use the FT amount (23.9 million) as the base pay per year in the start of negotiations.  Which makes sense considering that is exactly what they did last year.