DogofWar1 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 10 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Does your resentment also grow for the Dems putting up a candidate that couldn't beat freaking Donald Trump? Isn't that a self-fulfilling prophecy, though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said: Isn't that a self-fulfilling prophecy, though? It's an easy statement to make after the election. The expectation was that Dems had a winner. The results showed otherwise and thus we get at least 4 years of people second guessing the primaries. It's akin to me saying..isn't it the fault of the RNC voters who nominated this asshole to begin with? Couldn't they (the GOP) have come up with someone to beat Donald freaking Trump? See how that works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 42 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: When I read stuff like this my resentment grows against the "protest voter" and the lazy welps who couldn't be bothered to get off their asses. Just remember, your group is dying faster. I've always said that there are no problems in communities that a few funerals won't fix. The Right is afraid of becoming a minority because they know how they treat minorities, and karma is a ruthless ****. Lotta people that don't accept elections feel that way.....enjoy the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 22 minutes ago, twa said: Lotta people that don't accept elections feel that way.....enjoy the company. 4 minutes ago, visionary said: Yeah, you're right we just gotta accept Trump and the things he does yup yup go go POTUS rangers! DOO DOO DO DO DO DO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 26 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: The expectation was that Dems had a winner. So why can't this apply to the people that "protest voted" or stayed home? No one thought Trump would win so people could have felt too comfortable doing one of these things. I'm just tired of people trying to blame others (except people that actually voted for trump, you can totally blame them). 31 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: isn't it the fault of the RNC voters who nominated this asshole to begin with? Couldn't they (the GOP) have come up with someone to beat Donald freaking Trump? Yes. The GOP is a train wreck. Have you not been paying attention? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 It surely isn't the Dems fault for putting out the most qualified and experienced candidate in at least 40 years. She deserved the nomination and deserved to be president. That millions of people thought her corrupt or unfit or a criminal etc is only a further reflection on republican BS politics, fear mongering and brain washing of the last 30 years she has been in the public spotlight. Her not winning isn't an indictment on her candidacy or Dems at all. They knew how she was viewed but again, she was extremely qualified and at some point you have to think there aren't that many morons walking around. Sadly, they were mistaken and here we are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. How is that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsFan44 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 12 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: It surely isn't the Dems fault for putting out the most qualified and experienced candidate in at least 40 years. She deserved the nomination and deserved to be president. That millions of people thought her corrupt or unfit or a criminal etc is only a further reflection on republican BS politics, fear mongering and brain washing of the last 30 years she has been in the public spotlight. Her not winning isn't an indictment on her candidacy or Dems at all. They knew how she was viewed but again, she was extremely qualified and at some point you have to think there aren't that many morons walking around. Sadly, they were mistaken and here we are Name a Presidential election where the less charismatic candidate won. Hillary was by far a better candidate, and had a whole lot of crazy **** go against her, but Trump definitely had the (toxic) charisma. It's sad, but I think it is what drives the swing voter. Add: I largely agree with your post, I think the Ds assumed she would win and we would have been better served if someone had been there to challenge her other than Sanders when the whole thing started going bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 10 minutes ago, visionary said: That's common thinking among the base. My brother doesn't think Muslims should be allowed to run for Congress or hold any political office. He also thinks they should all be deported.They don't belong in America Reason being: "They all want to kill us" Me: All 2 billion want to kill us huh? Not just a small fraction of radical terrorists? Him: Yes, all of them. **** them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 The reality of voting in the US is simple. We frankly complicate it too much with the complicated rules and lesser evil nonsense and random flailing 3rd/4th/5th parties. It's first past the post, winner take all. Those systems naturally gravitate towards 2 party systems. There are thus only two individuals with a realistic chance of winning. As a potential voter, you thus either actively or tacitly support one of the candidates. If you vote for someone, that's active support. If you vote for someone besides those two or don't vote, you tacitly support the winner (unless you actively seek to overthrow the system, but that's for another day). Active support for Trump is worse than tacit support, sure, but there is still responsibility to be assessed. If you see a person dying on the side of the road, sure, the people passing them by are not as bad as the people who beat the guy in the first place, but we as a society assign at least some responsibility nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: How is that I think he's too busy drowning to answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, RedskinsFan44 said: Name a Presidential election where the less charismatic candidate won. Hillary was by far a better candidate, and had a whole lot of crazy **** go against her, but Trump definitely had the (toxic) charisma. It's sad, but I think it is what drives the swing voter. It's a fair point and one of a few legit criticisms of her candidacy. Still, she had plenty enough charisma to win. I don't think that is what sunk her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 24 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: How is that The Dems showed that they could not accurately gauge the pulse of America. Plain and simple. The results prove this is true. 21 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said: I think he's too busy drowning to answer How so? I don't know that it is worth it to go too far down the "who is to blame" rabbit hole again. I'm just tired of people blaming others without accepting some themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 25 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: It's a fair point and one of a few legit criticisms of her candidacy. Still, she had plenty enough charisma to win. I don't think that is what sunk her. I actually disagree. I think Clinton had minimal charisma. For all her years speaking, she never seemed relatable to me. I'm just a white guy from a progressive state. But she was the default choice. I never felt like she was destined to be a great leader. Trump has a ton in a cult leader kind of way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 24 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: It's a fair point and one of a few legit criticisms of her candidacy. Still, she had plenty enough charisma to win. I don't think that is what sunk her. The other important point about Hillary is that it isn't one singular thing that resulted in her losing, it was a combination of many many factors. Any one of those factors not happening as it did could have flipped the election, and even with them all she still won the popular vote by 2.8 million. 4 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: The Dems showed that they could not accurately gauge the pulse of America. Plain and simple. The results prove this is true. I mean, but how do we square this with the fact that she got more votes? We essentially have to admit that the "pulse of America" is the pulse of a system that allows a minority to outright defeat a majority (not just limit the power of the majority, but outright beat it down). That may be something it is okay to flippantly say "sure" to, seeing as the system has been in place since the start, but the implications of minority votes beating majority votes consistently are major and concerning. How small a minority is too small? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Not to mention they were expected to know the pulse also included a targeted Russian propaganda campaign that 80 million people viewed over the course the campaign period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said: We essentially have to admit that the "pulse of America" is the pulse of a system that allows a minority to outright defeat a majority (not just limit the power of the majority, but outright beat it down). That may be something it is okay to flippantly say "sure" to, seeing as the system has been in place since the start, but the implications of minority votes beating majority votes consistently are major and concerning. How small a minority is too small? I'm not going to get into discussing the merits of the Electoral College. At least not in this thread. But, to me, losing the election shows that she did not have the pulse of America. Now I admit the pulse of America currently is quite frightening. But I would expect a person that is going to become the leader of the Free World to be able to overcome it. She couldn't. And I agree that while she was definitely the most qualified, she never was charismatic. 3 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: Not to mention they were expected to know the pulse also included a targeted Russian propaganda campaign that 80 million people viewed over the course the campaign period Well I don't think Obama handled that correctly. Was Hillary briefed at all about the Russian interference prior to the election? I honestly don't remember. But again that is something that I expect presidential material to be able to overcome. After all she would have been faced with far more difficult task to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 The fact that a portion of this country honestly felt Hillary Clinton was an "evil person" and she still only lost by what amounts to approx 70-80k votes spread across 3 states? It says a lot about why voter turnout is probably the single biggest factor in determining elections, especially national ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 I have a problem with the "pulse of America" designation. The way our electoral system is designed, it simply does not measure the views of the nation as a whole. It is abundantly clear in the 21st century that the Republicans are not the popular party when taking the entire nation as a whole into consideration. But they are very good at winning elections through our electoral system and they have absolutely dominated Democrats at the state and local level, which is almost entirely the fault of the liberal base not doing it's job in midterms. Our issues with fair representation at the federal level are only going to get worse as the urban/major metropolitan population grows and the rural population declines. We aren't electing people that represent the pulse of the country. We are electing people who are good at winning elections under the current system. That sucks whether it's liberals or conservatives exploiting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 11 minutes ago, No Excuses said: We aren't electing people that represent the pulse of the country. We are electing people who are good at winning elections under the current system. That sucks whether it's liberals or conservatives exploiting it. As the saying goes, Republicans are great at winning elections, but horrible at running the gov't. The opposite goes for liberals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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