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Trump and his cabinet/buffoonery- Get your bunkers ready!


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1 hour ago, The Evil Genius said:

Don't you have to be convicted of something first, in order to be pardoned?

 

This is something I was wondering too. Can a POTUS "preemptively pardon" someone? That makes zero sense to me.

 

Even if he DID try to pardon himself, what's he going to pardon himself for? He hasn't even been indicted for anything, let alone convicted. 

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29 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

This is something I was wondering too. Can a POTUS "preemptively pardon" someone? That makes zero sense to me.

 

Ford pardoned Nixon for any and all crimes he may have committed while President. There's plenty of precedent for pre-emptive pardoning.

 

What's more interesting is that a 1915 Supreme Court ruling holds that accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt, which was one of the reasons Ford cited for going ahead with it and a sticking point for Nixon in accepting it.

 

Quote

At a 2014 panel discussion, Ford’s lawyer during that period, Benton Becker, explained an additional element that influenced Ford’s decision to issue a presidential pardon: a 1915 Supreme Court decision. In Burdick v. United States, the Court ruled that a pardon carried an "imputation of guilt" and accepting a pardon was "an admission of guilt.”. Thus, this decision implied that Nixon accepted his guilt in the Watergate controversy by also accepting Ford’s pardon.

 

Prior to Ford’s issuance of the pardon, Becker was tasked with the difficult job of mediating the negotiations between Ford and Nixon. Becker said he took copies of the Burdick decision to California when he met with former President Nixon, and under Ford’s instructions, walked through the decision with Nixon.

 

Becker said the discussion with Nixon was very difficult, and the former President kept trying to change the subject way from Burdick. Finally, Nixon acknowledged Becker’s argument about what the Supreme Court decision meant.

 

After he left the White House, Ford carried part of the Burdick decision with him in his wallet in case someone brought up the pardon. In a later interview with Woodward for Caroline Kennedy’s book, “Profiles in Courage for Our Time,” Ford pulled out the dog-eared decision and read the key parts of it to Woodward.

 

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-nixon-pardon-in-retrospect

Edited by techboy
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2 hours ago, LD0506 said:

Tracking the Trump Administration’s “Midnight Regulations”

The administration is rushing to implement dozens of policy changes in its final days. We’re following some of the most consequential and controversial.

 

https://projects.propublica.org/trump-midnight-regulations/


I support this rule change...

 

“Loosening Efficiency Standards for Showerheads“
 

I like to feel like I was in a fight for my life against a deluge of hot water when taking a shower.

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18 minutes ago, techboy said:

 

Ford pardoned Nixon for any and all crimes he may have committed while President. There's plenty of precedent for pre-emptive pardoning.

 

What's more interesting is that a 1915 Supreme Court ruling holds that accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt, which was one of the reasons Ford cited for going ahead with it and a sticking point for Nixon in accepting it.

 

 

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-nixon-pardon-in-retrospect

 

Thanks for that. I wonder whether or not Trump will care that it's an admission of guilt. On one hand there's nothing he hates more than "losing" or admitting failure, but on the other we also know that he's absolutely shameless when it comes to "winning"; he'll win at any cost, even if it means technically admitting that he committed a crime as long as he can get away with it.

 

What would be the legal recourse if Trump did pardon himself? Someone would have to sue to bring it to the courts. Wonder who it would be. I'd assume the Dems would stay away from it in any "official" capacity, but who knows.

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30 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Thanks for that. I wonder whether or not Trump will care that it's an admission of guilt. On one hand there's nothing he hates more than "losing" or admitting failure, but on the other we also know that he's absolutely shameless when it comes to "winning"; he'll win at any cost, even if it means technically admitting that he committed a crime as long as he can get away with it.

 

What would be the legal recourse if Trump did pardon himself? Someone would have to sue to bring it to the courts. Wonder who it would be. I'd assume the Dems would stay away from it in any "official" capacity, but who knows.

 

One benefit to him from packing the Supremes is they may uphold a right to the President for pardoning himself. However, they may decline because a Democrat president could do absolutely anything illegal, may be impeached or even removed but that's the extent of any kind of punishment. So I can see them giving a lot of thought to this.

 

If the next president doesn't pardon him, then he's really up the creek and can be tried for any federal crime he's committed, if Biden's DOJ decides to prosecute. Another reason for him to resign at the zenith hour and have Pence pardon him. Pence would do it too, he's such an ass kisser.

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28 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

 

One benefit to him from packing the Supremes is they may uphold a right to the President for pardoning himself. However, they may decline because a Democrat president could do absolutely anything illegal, may be impeached or even removed but that's the extent of any kind of punishment. So I can see them giving a lot of thought to this.

 

If the next president doesn't pardon him, then he's really up the creek and can be tried for any federal crime he's committed, if Biden's DOJ decides to prosecute. Another reason for him to resign at the zenith hour and have Pence pardon him. Pence would do it too, he's such an ass kisser.

 

But if Trump resigns that will be admitting he's a loser. Could he face that if it meant he'd be sure to avoid federal prosecution?

 

Either way, it doesn't necessarily matter. IIRC NY state has several pending lawsuits on him, and a POTUS pardon doesn't affect those.

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1 hour ago, techboy said:

 

Ford pardoned Nixon for any and all crimes he may have committed while President. There's plenty of precedent for pre-emptive pardoning.

 

What's more interesting is that a 1915 Supreme Court ruling holds that accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt, which was one of the reasons Ford cited for going ahead with it and a sticking point for Nixon in accepting it.

 

 

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-nixon-pardon-in-retrospect

 

So would that "admission of guilt" by pardoning himself be able to be used like a guily verdict in a future proceeding?  Like a civil suit or a state prosecution?

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Just like other norms, pardons are going to have to be addressed, IMO.  I mentioned to my wife a few weeks ago, what if a lawyer arguing the point in front of the SC asked if the Prez could gun down the opposing judges and then pardon himself.  Or pardon all his voters from any and all acts of violence during an election, and so on.  It’s just a massive slippery slope IMO.

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10 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

This is something I was wondering too. Can a POTUS "preemptively pardon" someone? That makes zero sense to me.

 

 

That's what Gerald Ford infamously did for Richard Nixon after Nixon resigned.

 

"...I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974."

 

https://watergate.info/1974/09/08/text-of-ford-pardon-proclamation.html

 

Edit: Sorry, I see that others already addressed this...

Edited by Dan T.
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