Larry Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 minute ago, NoCalMike said: I would argue that since undocumented workers are already here & working, trying to make the American dream happen for their children. Why not give them a pathway to citizenship which will involve them paying taxes on their wages. They will be contributing to our system. I will now point out that I'm absolutely certain that almost all of them pay taxes right now. (I base this opinion on the fact that the person who employs illegals must either pretend that his employees are legal (which means paying taxes), or create a paper trail that proves that he was knowingly employing illegals.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, PF Chang said: Prices would increase. Significantly This is the dirty secret that the Right doesn't want to talk about. The economy DEPENDS upon these low skilled, low wage, workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 23 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: How? There's probably about a 99% chance that on a daily basis you use or rely on something that was at least partly the result of an undocumented worker. Roads, buildings, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 While people have been bringing up good points, this isn’t really the thread for in-depth immigration discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PF Chang Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: I agree, so why have a minimum wage for? The same arguments for the economic argument for minimum wage should also apply to which ever advantage illegal immigration offers in the form of low wage workers (or artificially increasing the cost of labor by creating barriers to entry into the labor pool) I agree that minimum wage increase --> price increase applies. Though I do think it's possible that Americans are simply unwilling to work on farms, even if they were getting well over minimum wage -- see link https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 I wonder if Trump will try to do an executive order on giving the death penalty for drug dealers. He went on about how China kills drug dealers and doesn't have a drug problem because of it. He's praised Duterte and others for killing drug dealers in the past as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 minute ago, visionary said: I wonder if Trump will try to do an executive order on giving the death penalty for drug dealers. He went on about how China kills drug dealers and doesn't have a drug problem because of it. You'll be shocked to learn that China has a significant drug problem. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/world/china-watch/society/drug-abuse-in-china Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 2 hours ago, PF Chang said: I don't know why but i am amazed that someone actually said we should spend billions on a wall if even one Mexican crosses the border illegally. We should build a 2,000 mile border wall if one person illegally crosses. Like if there was an actual dangerous migrant caravan crossing would President Force just nuke Mexico? Whereas we must do absolutely nothing about gun control because it is not guaranteed to instantly prevent all gun deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 hour ago, mistertim said: There's probably about a 99% chance that on a daily basis you use or rely on something that was at least partly the result of an undocumented worker. Roads, buildings, etc. Food! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 hour ago, AsburySkinsFan said: (Prices would increase) Significantly This is the dirty secret that the Right doesn't want to talk about. The economy DEPENDS upon these low skilled, low wage, workers. Ill point out that I often see people grossly overstating the increase, though. Keep recalling an article that looked at what happened when Reagan got rid of the bracreo program, which allowed farms to hire foreign migrant workers. Supposedly when that happened, the net result was that agriculture had to raise wages by 40%. And supposedly, if that happened today, the net cost for a family of four would be around $100. Per year. (My gut suspects that that estimate is low. But it's the only estimate I've seen that claiming 900% increases.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 hour ago, mistertim said: There's probably about a 99% chance that on a daily basis you use or rely on something that was at least partly the result of an undocumented worker. Roads, buildings, etc. However, the fact that said product was touched by an illegal does not come close to implying that said workers are an irreplaceable component of our lives. (Now, if your point is that without illegals, said commodities would cost more by some undetermined amount? Then I agree with you.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Illegals benefit the super rich by giving them an exceedingly low paid labor force... while they simultaneously fund politicians who scream to the heavens the illegal needs to be stopped. Maybe things would get better if folks would wise up and stop supporting the people who get their marching orders from those who clearly want to sow chaos among us, steal as much from us as they can, bring us to as low a level of expectancy that they can get and bleed us for generations. If i supported that, i'd be pretty ****ing pissed. Especially since I would likely be one of the people it hurts the most. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Calling for the death penalty for drug dealers, does that include CEOs of Big Pharma and pill mill corporations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Larry said: However, the fact that said product was touched by an illegal does not come close to implying that said workers are an irreplaceable component of our lives. (Now, if your point is that without illegals, said commodities would cost more by some undetermined amount? Then I agree with you.) True. The fact that it was touched by an illegal doesn't imply that the workers are irreplaceable and/or it couldn't be done by someone else. The case could probably be made that those jobs likely wouldn't as opposed to couldn't be filled by other non-illegals, depending on the job in question. But then, at the very least, it would go back to your point of being more costly to employ non-illegal labor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 54 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: Calling for the death penalty for drug dealers, does that include CEOs of Big Pharma and pill mill corporations? probably depends on their color Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 10 minutes ago, StillUnknown said: probably depends on their color Probably depends on their political contributions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 So Trump actually said to a reporter today that he didn't need to do it (declare a national emergency) but wanted to do it (build the wall) faster so he did (declare a national emergency)? Wow. That's yuge evidence for lawsuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 2 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said: You'll be shocked to learn that China has a significant drug problem. Explains the fascination with beastiality. edit: No, it doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Fwiw, Crystal meth is the hottest gift for lunar new year in North Korea. I'd bet they execute some drug users (aka dissidents fraudently charged) there also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Trump basically admitting it isn't a national emergency, which means he is also admitting to abusing the national emergency process. Now, I will freely admit I don't know the history of using national emergency status. I wouldn't be surprised if it has been abused in the past by either/or party. The only thing I can say for certainty is that in my lifetime I can't remember a President making theatrics out of it like this or using it as a political issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 21 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: So Trump actually said to a reporter today that he didn't need to do it (declare a national emergency) but wanted to do it (build the wall) faster so he did (declare a national emergency)? Wow. That's yuge evidence for lawsuits. I would have thought so, but didn't SCOTUS pretty much decide with the travel ban remixes that Trump's words and tweets don't matter when it comes to executive decisions, and they mostly judge based on the official documents, no matter what he said elsewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 13 hours ago, NoCalMike said: Trump basically admitting it isn't a national emergency, which means he is also admitting to abusing the national emergency process. Now, I will freely admit I don't know the history of using national emergency status. I wouldn't be surprised if it has been abused in the past by either/or party. The only thing I can say for certainty is that in my lifetime I can't remember a President making theatrics out of it like this or using it as a political issue. If Obama had done this the Republicans would have lost their damned minds. But now that they are supporting this blatant end-round they simply prove that they don't give a **** about our laws, our country, or our Constitutionally established government systems. They just want their way and they give zero ****s about destroying any credibility they may have once had. Mitch is fully Trump's **** now. Lindsey Graham is Trump's slut. The Republican voters are his little dumbass lemmings. **** 'em all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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