Dakota Access Pipeline Protests

[Larry]

3 hours ago, Destino said:

I've had a running theme in many threads concerning just what the hell people are calling protests these days.  Trespassing and forcing people to stop something you don't like simply because you're mad and demand that it be so, isn't protected speech or assembly.  It never has been.  These people could be safely screaming their heads off in front of any government buildings demanding construction cease and I'd back them 100%.  Instead they are trying to get to where construction crews are working and trying to force them to leave by via intimidation, sabotage, and physical interference. 

 

It's really not hard to see the absurdity here.  Imagine this same tactic used against any left wing cause and picture what the subsequent thread here would look like.  Just picture what a hoard of frenzied right wingers forcing their way in, screaming at everyone, and refusing to leave until all activity their was canceled before clashing with police.  Terrifying... and I'm fairly certain no one would call that a peaceful protest. 

 

 

Yeah. I mean, just imagine the outrage you'd see, from the lefties here, if, say, anti abortion "protesters" were trying to blockade businesses they objected to, or trying to intimidate their customers. 

 

Or if, say, an angry mob were to invade a government building, shouting, banging on the walls. Refusing to leave until the government agency shut down their operations. And if it were later revealed that every single one of the "protesters" was a paid staffer of a Republican on Capitol Hill. 

 

Why, if that were to happen, the reaction of the lefties would be so spectacular that no one on this board could possibly create a straw man, after forgetting those things that would have been so memorable, if they had happened. 

[Destino]

6 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Yeah. I mean, just imagine the outrage you'd see, from the lefties here, if, say, anti abortion "protesters" were trying to blockade businesses they objected to, or trying to intimidate their customers. 

 

Or if, say, an angry mob were to invade a government building, shouting, banging on the walls. Refusing to leave until the government agency shut down their operations. And if it were later revealed that every single one of the "protesters" was a paid staffer of a Republican on Capitol Hill. 

 

Why, if that were to happen, the reaction of the lefties would be so spectacular that no one on this board could possibly create a straw man, after forgetting those things that would have been so memorable, if they had happened. 

 

Yes, I've "forgotten" about those instances.  Clearly at the time liberals argued those fine people were just living out their own truth and it was all just part of the great joy of a free society.  No talk about illegal obstruction or sinister machinations of those intent on stealing a Presidential election.  Straw man, indeed.  

 

 

 

 

 

[zoony]

3 hours ago, Destino said:

 

It's really not hard to see the absurdity here.  Imagine this same tactic used against any left wing cause and picture what the subsequent thread here would look like.  Just picture what a hoard of frenzied right wingers forcing their way in, screaming at everyone, and refusing to leave until all activity their was canceled before clashing with police.  Terrifying... and I'm fairly certain no one would call that a peaceful protest. 

 

 

Well speak for yourself, I'm assuming everyone that is applauding these protestors are equally thrilled with Abortion Clinic protestors who harass women as they go to and from!!

 

/ball spiked

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, great:

 

[Larry]

4 hours ago, Destino said:

 

Yes, I've "forgotten" about those instances.  Clearly at the time liberals argued those fine people were just living out their own truth and it was all just part of the great joy of a free society.  No talk about illegal obstruction or sinister machinations of those intent on stealing a Presidential election.  Straw man, indeed.  

 

 

Oooh, well done.  

 

Respond to someone pointing out your straw man, by making another one, and claiming it's him.  

 

Well, if it will make you feel better, I have gone back and edited out the parts of of post where I claimed that the lefties "argued those fine people were just living out their own truth and it was all just part of the great joy of a free society".  

 

For a small fee, I'll tell you how I edited out that part of my post, without the board putting a notification that I edited the post, at the bottom of it.  For a larger fee, I'll tell you how I edited it out of the place where you quoted me.  

 

Signed, straw man.  

[Destino]

17 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Oooh, well done.  

 

Respond to someone pointing out your straw man, by making another one, and claiming it's him.  

 

Well, if it will make you feel better, I have gone back and edited out the parts of of post where I claimed that the lefties "argued those fine people were just living out their own truth and it was all just part of the great joy of a free society".  

 

For a small fee, I'll tell you how I edited out that part of my post, without the board putting a notification that I edited the post, at the bottom of it.  For a larger fee, I'll tell you how I edited it out of the place where you quoted me.  

 

Signed, straw man.  

 

You pointed out a strawman?  You've certainly claimed to have, twice now, but I see is a vague allusion to past events followed by a complaint about my take on those past events that I feel strengthen my original argument that the ends do not justify the means.  

[s0crates]

8 hours ago, Destino said:

I've had a running theme in many threads concerning just what the hell people are calling protests these days.  Trespassing and forcing people to stop something you don't like simply because you're mad and demand that it be so, isn't protected speech or assembly.  It never has been.  These people could be safely screaming their heads off in front of any government buildings demanding construction cease and I'd back them 100%.  Instead they are trying to get to where construction crews are working and trying to force them to leave by via intimidation, sabotage, and physical interference. 

 

It's really not hard to see the absurdity here.  Imagine this same tactic used against any left wing cause and picture what the subsequent thread here would look like.  Just picture what a hoard of frenzied right wingers forcing their way in, screaming at everyone, and refusing to leave until all activity their was canceled before clashing with police.  Terrifying... and I'm fairly certain no one would call that a peaceful protest. 

 

 

Do these hypothetical frenzied right wingers have a treaty with the government that says the land belongs to them?

[zoony]

9 minutes ago, s0crates said:

 

Do these hypothetical frenzied right wingers have a treaty with the government that says the land belongs to them?

Did you want to throw out our entire legal system or just the individual cases you disagree with based on what the internet says

[Bozo the kKklown]

11 hours ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Pipelines always leak, it's just not reported to regulatory bodies, or the problem is downplayed. We the public aren't informed. Just like fracking is breaking up bedrock and polluting creeks and rivers.

 

The oil industry has outlived its usefulness and we must develop massively alternative energy sources.

So what if it's been though the courts, which are servants of corporate interests, just like our government.

Of the People, by the People, and for the People, those words mean nothing.

Of the corporations, by the Corporations, and for the Corporations, that's out system of Government now and you're about to get a right big dose of it.

Barely mentioned in the mainstream, corporate media sphere.

 

http://www.11alive.com/news/local/one-dead-in-explosion-near-site-of-alabama-pipeline-spill/345163248

 

This leak took place in September and there were many incidents that took place this year.

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

Landowners across Iowa are concerned about the implications of allowing the state to condemn privately owned land, particularly agricultural land, on behalf of a company that has not demonstrated any substantial public benefit to the residents of Iowa.[11] In March 2015, a Des Moines Register poll found that while fifty-seven percent of Iowans supported the Dakota Access Pipeline, seventy-four percent were opposed to the use of eminent domain condemnation on behalf of a private corporation.[81]

For pipelines, eminent domain is used to legally grant "right of way" to the land. In this situation, many people assume that "eminent domain" means land is being taken away from land owners.[82][83] Land owners are compensated for the long-term use of their land, and paid for the loss of the current crop on farmland, replacement of fences, and re-seeding of grass[84][85] in what is called a voluntary easement.[86] Across the four states on the pipeline's route, 99% of privately-owned properties involved are considered voluntary easements as of August, 2016; properties in all states but Iowa have been retained as voluntary easements at rates of 100%.[86]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakota_Access_Pipeline

---------------------

 

The govt used eminent domain to benefit the profits of a private company? 

 

WTF is that about. And to call it "voluntary easements" instead of eminent domain bc the landowners are forced to accept compensation? The term "voluntary easements" is oxymoron. What is voluntary about forced compensation? I am going to have sex with your wife but ill pay for the therapy bills.

 

I must be wrong about this. No way the govt can force land owners to allow their land to be dug up and have a potentially land killing pipeline put under the ground.

 

Luckily, it appears the pipeline company is being forced to carry a $250,000 reserve fund for any damages caused. 

[visionary]

 

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

[Bozo the kKklown]

 

Protesting doesn't work...

 

[TheGoodBits]

Awesome news.

[TradeTheBeal!]

The American Way.

[Springfield]

Hopefully, this can satisfy all interested parties.

[zoony]

I dont think weve ever had a bigger **** occupy the executive office

[TheGreatBuzz]

Wait until January 21st.

[TradeTheBeal!]

1 hour ago, zoony said:

I dont think weve ever had a bigger **** occupy the executive office

 

You never took a tour of the place?

[DogofWar1]

My understanding is that once the EIS is done, the permit could be reinstated for the same location.

 

I haven't been following this as closely as I probably should; my gut is with the Sioux, but I don't know all the minutiae of the situation.  However, my understanding is that the pipeline was originally going to run north of Bismarck before there was concern about contamination of the town's water.  If a similar study wasn't conducted for the Standing Rock site, then it's reasonable to hold off until we know the potential damage and impact.

[visionary]

 

 

 

[twa]

I'm sure it was based on the best available science and expert testimony. ..... like some other crap they shovel out.

[s0crates]

This is a pretty good story, lots of photos, info, interviews, a timeline of events, etc.:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3999630/Dakota-protesters-WIN-bid-stop-pipeline-built-Standing-Rock.html

 

Just when I've lost all faith, Obama goes and does the right thing. So shines a good deed in a weary world.

[AsburySkinsFan]

On 12/1/2016 at 8:52 AM, zoony said:

Did you want to throw out our entire legal system or just the individual cases you disagree with based on what the internet says

Are you referring to the legal use of eminent domain?

[Kilmer17]

So it's a win for the protesters until Jan 21st?