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CSNPhilly: 10 observations about the Eagles and the NFC East


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1 hour ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

This seems pretty fair...maybe a little over the top in the Redskin disrespect but nothing egregious. I also don't understand what some of you think the league will "figure out" about Wentz. He's not doing things with smoke and mirrors. He's simply playing very well. That's tough to figure out, in my opinion. 

We've seen rookies get off to hot starts before.  NFL defenses will eventually figure out what he likes to do and try to take that away. 

As for this thread, everything changes if the Redskins win on Sunday.  The Eagles look like they caught Steelers on a bad day and otherwise only managed to beat the Browns and Bears. 

 

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30 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

This seems pretty fair...maybe a little over the top in the Redskin disrespect but nothing egregious. I also don't understand what some of you think the league will "figure out" about Wentz. He's not doing things with smoke and mirrors. He's simply playing very well. That's tough to figure out, in my opinion. 

I think the league has figured out that they can't load up the box and force Wentz to beat them, because he will.  Ditto for Prescott, even without Dez.  

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15 minutes ago, Destino said:

We've seen rookies get off to hit starts before.  NFL defenses will eventually figure out what he likes to do and try to take that away. 

As for this thread, everything changes if the Redskins win on Sunday.  The Eagles look like they caught Steelers on a bad day and otherwise only managed to beat the Browns and Bears. 

 

I hope you're right. I'd hate to think that two of our division rivals just went from major questions at the position to having franchise quarterbacks!

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1 minute ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I hope you're right. I'd hate to think that two of our division rivals just went from major questions at the position to having franchise quarterbacks!

Wentz looks legit, it's early but if you analyse his game properly and look at the type of QB he is, it's not one you really "figure out" like a Griffin or Kaepernick. Also he is not making any mistakes. 

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Skins still disrespected, what else is new?

Wentz does scare me though. Not right now, but he will become a pain in our ass very soon. I hate to admit it, but the Eagles got a franchise QB that could become on of the elites. 

You never know what will happen, but it sure looks like they pulled the trigger on the right guy.

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All QBs get "figured out". That simply means studying enough game film to start recognizing patterns, tells, flaws and weaknesses that can be exploited. Whether or not Wentz has enough in those areas for D-Coordinators to start gameplanning for/against remains to be seen...as well as it remains to be seen if Wentz can improve, correct and eliminate (as much as possible) those areas that can be exploited.

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2 hours ago, Destino said:

We've seen rookies get off to hot starts before.  NFL defenses will eventually figure out what he likes to do and try to take that away. 

As for this thread, everything changes if the Redskins win on Sunday.  The Eagles look like they caught Steelers on a bad day and otherwise only managed to beat the Browns and Bears. 

 

I'm not so sure about that. It could also be that the Eagles had a bad day against the Lions. Their defense is clearly the best in our division and they have by far the best defensive coordinator. I hope that you are right and Wentz and Prescott will be figured out but Wentz looked really good and in contrast to Prescott he is ready to throw further than 5-10 yards. So far they had one bad half but they were impressive in the second half against the Lions.

I think the key will be to get to the quarterback but that won't come easy because I think that Wentz has very good pocket awareness for a rookie. This is going to be a tough task. It's clear that we will put up some points but not enough to overcome a mediocre or bad day of our defense. So i hope that our defensive play in Baltimore was more the rule than the exception (from now on).

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34 minutes ago, Panninho said:

I'm not so sure about that. It could also be that the Eagles had a bad day against the Lions. Their defense is clearly the best in our division and they have by far the best defensive coordinator. I hope that you are right and Wentz and Prescott will be figured out but Wentz looked really good and in contrast to Prescott he is ready to throw further than 5-10 yards. So far they had one bad half but they were impressive in the second half against the Lions.

I wasn't clear.  What I'm saying is that the perception will shift based on the outcome of Sunday win or lose.  If the Eagles win, the Detroit game becomes the outlier and is written off as just a bad game.  If the Eagles lose, suddenly they don't look nearly as strong at just one game over .500 and most of their wins coming against bad teams.

Wentz and Prescott look pretty good to me, they move around well and make good decisions.  They haven't really been in high pressure situations though.  Their defenses keep scoring low and games close so they can keep running the ball and picking their spots. 

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On 11 October 2016 at 10:33 PM, moondog said:

I could not disagree more. Even if you're getting away from performance and just speaking from an athlete point of view, Cousins is far more of an athlete than Manning will ever be.
Athlete? Didn't we have one of them at QB recently? Being an athlete as a QB is one of the least important attributes in the NFL.

The play the other day where he grabbed the ball and chucked it was something Eli has never been capable of. And I think their arms are pretty comparable. 
You mean the play where instead of just taking a sack he threw it wildly and it could have been intercepted? And arms?  Just examine Kirk throwing outside the numbers compared to Eli. Look at him throw  towards the sidelines and I dare you to say his arm is as good as Eli's. 

Now I KNOW Eli has two Superbowl rings and because of that everyone in the world will give him a long leash. I do too when I think about Eli. But just dive into Eli's performance over his career and rather than look at it through Eli glasses, look at it from a KIrk Cousins perspective because I think way too many on here want the second coming of Brady without realizing how truly blessed we are with Cousins after 25 years of ****ty QB play.
Truly blessed? There is some strong language. And I would say that 25 years is a bit too exaggerated as to good QB play. 

This year: Eli: 63.6% completion rate with 1385 yards, 7.4 avg, 5 TD's vs 4 INT's, 5 fumbles w/ 2 lost, 86.0 QB rating. 

Kirk: 67.2% completion rate with 1432 yards, 7.5 avg, 7 TD's vs 5 INT's, 3 fumbles w/ 0 lost, 90.5 QB rating. 
Apart from completion rate there isn't much argument for being "better". And I don't care much for having the highest completion rate when he throws the ball to Reed for a 5 year gain as his first read when Crowder is open 20 yards down the field.

...

 Again, I get it. Eli has two Superbowl rings and has made some great plays in the playoffs and in the Superbowl to achieve those victories. No one can take that away from him. What I am trying to point out has nothing to do with that as much as it is to calm people down when assessing Kirk's performance. Rather than freaking out every time he doesn't complete a pass, realize other QB's, to include Superbowl winners, miss short throws for first downs or miss wide open deep balls. It's part of the game. For goodness sake, everyone still thinks Eli is a top level QB when his career completion percentage is below 60% and his rating is 83.6!

"When [Cousins'] career’s over, it’s gonna be, ‘OK did you win any division championships, did you win any Super Bowls, what’s your win-loss record,'" McCloughan said. Its all about the big wins, not superior stats. I don't care if Kirk has a higher QB rating, Eli has gotten hot twice and helped the team to win two Superbowls (granted there were some lucky plays, those lucky f****).

The moral of the story is we need to take a step back and realize Kirk is playing pretty well even this year, just not to the MVP levels he played at the end of last year. The key is while the offense around him is pretty good, he's still missing any semblance of a running game and a formidable defense.
He's playing pretty well and is being asked to carry this team and right now he and the team have performed well enough to be 3-2. 
He is not being "asked to carry the team". He has been given a good offensive line, one of the best receiving cores in the NFL, a good offensive scheme and is being asked to execute it and make the reads and the throws that could be expected from any QB in the league. Its not as though he only has one good receiver to throw to for the last few seasons like Eli and the team relies on them to make plays. And the "moral of the story" should be to not overlook mediocre and streaky play because we haven't had a franchise QB for a long time. We shouldn't be praising him acting like a robot reading code and being unable to improvise when then play isn't there because he has a high "completion percentage". I want him to be the guy just like the rest of us, but Im not going to get emotionally attached and think that we are "blessed" that he is with us. I don't want another saviour, just good QB play. 

 

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For work today I had to drive thru Philly.  I got to listen to good ole Philly morning sports talk radio.  According to host "Angelo Cataldi" and the fans calling into that station, I don't even know why the redskins are going to show up Sunday.  We have no chance!!!!  Lol

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PapaLazarou, 

Can't quote you since you responded entirely within quoting me. 

First off, my mistake. Looking back at it I think I slightly misinterpreted your use of the word talented with "athletic." It seems you meant talented simply as another way of saying how good they are and that you would rate Kirk as #4 or even #5 in the division. I would argue athleticism can be huge for a QB but it can also be a big hindrance. I'm not viewing this as Cam Newton athleticism, think more Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers. Brees' athleticism is incredibly underrated but I don't think I need to go in depth here in what I'm talking about. It allows these guys to move around in the pocket as well as anyone, make defenders miss and keep plays alive. Guys like Russell Wilson excel at using their athleticism to keep plays alive, but don't depend on it over everything like RGIII did. Ben Roethlisberger is another one who is a great athlete, although it doesn't show as much because he's packed on a lot of pounds since college and he's just older now. Kirk fits more in the mold of a Drew Brees light (very) when it comes to athleticism but he's no statue like Brady, either. I definitely see your point of view about athleticism not being a determining factor in success for QB's - Brady and Peyton were clearly statues but I think I've made my point in how it can greatly benefit a QB as well if used correctly. Kirk is damn good on the move and we should utilize more boot and rollout type plays. Although this does also require some competence in the running game. 

Not sure why you're dogging Cousins for that prematurely snapped fumble. Guy made a great play to save 15-20 yards. You say he threw it wildly and it could have been intercepted, I say he threw it in the vicinity of a receiver with no defender around, turned a huge negative into simply a lost down and it was a great play. Don't see your angle here. 

Yep, examined the arms and my opinion stands. Eli and Kirk definitely have comparable arms. When Kirk steps into his throws he's certainly got a cannon but he's always been more of a touch passer. But make no mistake when he lets it rip and steps into, hell yeah brother. He's no Joe Flacco but I've seen Kirk and Eli make enough throws to "examine" it and I stand by my opinion that their arms are comparable. 

Yes, truly blessed to have Kirk Cousins at QB. Strong language? Absolutely. But I use it in comparison to what we've had. Perhaps you would reserve truly blessed for a Hall of Fame QB coming our way but I use it relative to what we've had and would you feel better if I said 23 years instead of 25? The last QB we had that was as good as Kirk would be a Super Bowl winner in Rypien. Kirk broke a ton of franchise records last year and was damn near several others. I could probably write about 5 pages here of why he's better than anyone since Rypien but I don't think that's necessary. Name one guy you think's been better since. Frerotte? Brunell? Campbell? RGIII? RGIII had an unparalleled year in 2012, no doubt. But only if you view that season in a vacuum would you say he was a better QB. You may bring up Johnson and I suppose it's a decent enough argument but he was damn near 1:1 TD/INT ratio and I have a strong feeling that if you transplanted his performance to the past year and a half people would be more up in arms than they are about Kirk. I'd still take Cousins. It may not have been 23 years straight of ****ty QB play, but probably about 20/23 years and Kirk, to me, is the best since Rypien. 

You act like Kirk routinely missed receivers downfield and then only ever hits his targets on 5 yard passes. As I showed, his ypa is pretty damn good. He routinely hit guys for deep plays last year and has this year too. He's hit DeSean deep several times, hit Garcon 21 yards downfield just last game. Again, the point is if you watch a good amount of football, you will see all QB's miss guys that are wide open. See Tom Brady in Superbowl loss to wide open Welker. **** happens man. Kirk isn't that high in completion percentage by just dinking and dunking. I think you're like most in that you multiply every bad play like that Crowder miss times 10 and then devalue his good plays. For example, hitting DeSean in stride nearly 30 yards down field while rolling LEFT and absorbing a big hit immediately after the throw. Money!

You're right, it's all about the big plays in the big games. We were down and out last year, the coaches finally unleashed Cousins and he was reason numero uno why we went on a great run to make the playoffs last year. Does that not qualify as big to you? He played well in the playoff game too, DeSean totally hosed us giving zero effort to get in the endzone and the defense got destroyed and couldn't hold their own. Would you not quantify wins on the road against NYG and Baltimore as big games this year? Performance in Cleveland his rookie year or to close that Baltimore game in the midst of a playoff run as big games? Sure, Eli has two Superbowls, but he was on a team with one of the most dominant pass rushes in recent memory and had an effective running game. Those games were defensive battles all the way and the Giants had the only pass rush either of those years capable of making Brady uncomfortable. 

Cousins is absolutely and undoubtedly being asked to carry the team. You're right, we have a good O-line and a strong receiving group, to include the tight ends. We also have a defense and running game that are among the worst in the league. So yes, Cousins must carry the team. Regardless of the receivers/line, if the other team only has to respect your passing game and can pretty much run and score at will, Cousins must carry the team and he's handled the pressure decently so far, although we need him to be better. Teams have dropped extra guys in coverage and played soft zone most of the year against us because they know Cousins can hurt them and Jones won't. Cousins has made plenty of off schedule plays and is not this robot you refer to. I'm not sure why you're using robot as a negative connotation anyway. I'd say guys like Brady systematically and robotically analyze a defense to break it down every play. Cousins extended to make the play to Reed, he made a lot of nice plays with his feet last year and extended plays, half the time he does most of us are upset he didn't just throw it away. This type of off schedule stuff is only seen as good by us when it works and ****ty when it doesn't. 

You're most telling comment is saying you don't want a savior, just good QB play. Cousins was damn close to a savior last year and has been pretty damn solid so far this year. If you're just asking for good QB play then you should be ecstatic about Cousins. Arguments against him are fair if well founded, but you seem to be implying he's closer to a scrub than a good QB. 

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5 hours ago, Bigmuss1 said:

For work today I had to drive thru Philly.  I got to listen to good ole Philly morning sports talk radio.  According to host "Angelo Cataldi" and the fans calling into that station, I don't even know why the redskins are going to show up Sunday.  We have no chance!!!!  Lol

 

I don't know why, but it always bothers me when another teams media puts us down and swears that we aren't worth the dirt we play on.

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Wentz is also supported by an amzing gameplan and oline. He started the season with a lot of quick hits and now Peterson is slowly opening up the play book and let him do more. 

It's funny. In march everybody here was like. Eagels there QB is always injured and sucks (Bradford), Tony Romo his career is done and Eli is Eli...very up and down and also old. We (Redskins) have Kirk...by far the best situation at QB for now and in the future. This is great for us! 

And look how it looks now. The NFL changes so fast.

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Just now, Bigmuss1 said:

For work today I had to drive thru Philly.  I got to listen to good ole Philly morning sports talk radio.  According to host "Angelo Cataldi" and the fans calling into that station, I don't even know why the redskins are going to show up Sunday.  We have no chance!!!!  Lol

Living in So Jersey all I hear is how the Birds and Nats are better than the skins all day, every day. Mike Francessa clearly stated that the nats will have NO TROUBLE with the Saints and Redskins. Well, he was wrong

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19 hours ago, PapaLazarou said:

I am not going to go back and forth with you. We can agree to disagree. There is a thread for this I'm sure. I swear I saw it around here somewhere...

Truth, the Kirk Cousins not impressed thread. Didn't mean to devolve this into a Cousins thread, just kind of went off on a tangent. 

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On 10/11/2016 at 10:53 AM, SkinsGuy said:

True.

I've said that for years. There are many here who say "just start winning, and the stories and attitude will change"

No they won't. :) 

because skins are that bad! eagles will beat them bad this sunday like they did before. I hope its not as bad as Vick first game as eagle vs skins. they got totally lucky these 3 weeks, somethiing that usually doesnt happen to them but still, they are not dominant at all. 

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10 hours ago, bih said:

because skins are that bad! eagles will beat them bad this sunday like they did before. I hope its not as bad as Vick first game as eagle vs skins. they got totally lucky these 3 weeks, somethiing that usually doesnt happen to them but still, they are not dominant at all. 

I don't know what this post has to do with mine, but whatever.

So 3 wins in a row are all 100% total blind luck? They're bad, but very very lucky, huh? :rolleyes:

Ok, Sunshine. :806:

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10 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

I don't know what this post has to do with mine, but whatever.

So 3 wins in a row are all 100% total blind luck? They're bad, but very very lucky, huh? :rolleyes:

Ok, Sunshine. :806:

 

yes, most fans like you have their blinders on and cant see the truth. they are not that good, they were not good last year and they are not good this year. Kirk is ok backup, there is no good RB and defense is horrible. we have good WR core, good punter and kicker. thats it. cant win with that. they are ok team for 4 to 6 wins this year, and yes I said they will be 1-7 by the bye week, I know thats out of the window. they where gifted the Browns game win, Giants shot themselves in foot in second half and Ravens just couldnt figure out all they had to do was to run the ball. luck is gonna run out sooner or later. 

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1 hour ago, bih said:

 

yes, most fans like you have their blinders on and cant see the truth. they are not that good, they were not good last year and they are not good this year. Kirk is ok backup, there is no good RB and defense is horrible. we have good WR core, good punter and kicker. thats it. cant win with that. they are ok team for 4 to 6 wins this year, and yes I said they will be 1-7 by the bye week, I know thats out of the window. they where gifted the Browns game win, Giants shot themselves in foot in second half and Ravens just couldnt figure out all they had to do was to run the ball. luck is gonna run out sooner or later. 

If we were gifted the Browns game, then how do you judge the win the Cowboys got against us?  3 Cousins passes, anyone of the 3 hits the receiver on stride, we win that game.  Giants didn't shot themselves in the foot either.  They were gifted a turnover TD in a punt, they were gifted a field goal when it was obvious an INT in the endzone.  And the Ravens actually did try to run the ball but got stalled on several runs and had to turn to the pass.  So honestly I don't know what you are trying to say

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The Eagles just lost to the lions and they still act like their hot 3-0 start has earned them the crown. It's un ****ing believable, I just read an article stating "wentz is better than cousins" and "josh Norman is redskins only good corner". I want our boys to not only win, but to ****ing bury these Eagles tomorrow. I'm fed up to the gills with Eagles smack talk this week. 

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