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Standing during the Pledge or National Anthem


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25 minutes ago, RonArtest15 said:

 

Is the employer the NFL or the Cowboys?...seems to be a slippery slope as some teams are supportive of player activism and others are against it.  Lines have been blurred.

 

The team pays them, not the NFL.

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3 minutes ago, Bang said:

There's only one sure fire method of ending the protest.

 

Listen.

 

Why is that so ****ing hard?

~Bang

Listen to what?  No one is saying anything anymore, and haven't for a while, about what the issue is and how to fix it.  It's all become a dick measuring contest about if they can stand or not.  I was tracking to see how long it took for a thread about racism to emerge or get bumped.  It never happened.  And I lost track of time waiting.

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1 hour ago, RonArtest15 said:

 

Goes back to the Donald Sterling mess.  Dudes can claim ignorance or play the victim card, but they WILLFULLY signed on to play under Sterling.  As long as the paychecks are coming in, folks can tolerate a lot or turn a blind eye to a lot of indiscretions. 

 

These guys are in a tough spot...this is their livelihood and Jones, amongst others, do sign their checks.  I guarantee a lot of these players may honestly feel supportive of the protests but are literally scared to say/do anything because they want to keep the food on their tables.  Trust me, I get it.  It's easy to say who should do this/that from the side, but I'm not the one who has my paycheck on the line if I do 

1 hour ago, twa said:

 

The boss doesn't own you, now you might let your paycheck. 

:)

 

Well yea that's my point. None of them will lose millions to stand up for what they didn't really believe in in the first place. 

 

@RonArtest15 I know what your saying and I'm trying to manage how upset I am over them not being able to do anything about it with the understanding that some of them literally can't. So I get it. But I'm still upset about it. Like I said that's how supremacy works, unfortunately. 

 

@twa you are so right. 

 

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9 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Listen to what?  No one is saying anything anymore, and haven't for a while, about what the issue is and how to fix it.  It's all become a dick measuring contest about if they can stand or not.  I was tracking to see how long it took for a thread about racism to emerge or get bumped.  It never happened.  And I lost track of time waiting.

 

You really ain't the cat that we need to listen, to be honest. None of your views are really supporting any kind of supremacy or anything of that nature that I can remember. You just happen to play in the middle pretty often and that tends to put you on the reviving end. 

 

But there have been a few threads about the racist cops, for example, that have been bumped multiple times over the last few days. Another dude just got shot in the back over the weekend. Of course he was black. Of course the cop had no justifiable reason to shoot. 

22 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

So to highlight, this was an example about ONLY free speech.  The players have some good points and the white supremacists are a brown stain on the underwear of our society.  Free speech was their ONLY similarity.

 

I didn't even read this before I posted the above. I may argue with you particularly alot but I don't think you are bad person and I do understand what you mean most times. I just don't agree. 

 

That's why I say u ain't the cat we need to talk to. Cause you get it and I can tell. Sometimes you just piss me off (sorry)

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4 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

You really ain't the cat that we need to listen, to be honest. None of your views are really supporting any kind of supremacy or anything of that nature that I can remember. You just happen to play in the middle pretty often and that tends to put you on the reviving end. 

 

But there have been a few threads about the racist cops, for example, that have been bumped multiple times over the last few days. Another dude just got shot in the back over the weekend. Of course he was black. Of course the cop had no justifiable reason to shoot. 

Posting stories of examples isnt the same as having a conversation.  Im talking about discussing solutions.  Ive watched that thread.  Its been a while since there was meaningful discussion.

 

And Im not even sure how to take your first paragraph.

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I must have been under a rock, but I just heard about the ESPN nonsense as well.  

 

Everybody has literally lost their mind.  Between the President, the NFL Players, the NFL Owners, and the Media, they are going to ruin the most profitable sports league in the country.  

 

I get it, I don't really have a problem with the protests, but they have got to get politics out of the game and fast, and the players have to be complicit in doing that.  It's a no-win for anybody if this keeps going the way it's going.  

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2 hours ago, Llevron said:

 

Feel like the majority of our players are chumps and will do what the boss says. None of those dudes are giving up millions to get the Kap treatment. That's how supremacy works. 

 

1 hour ago, Destino said:

I have no doubt NFL owners collude and any player that becomes a "distraction" earns a lot less, if they are signed at all.  If players intentionally played horribly, they'd give cover for owners to black ball them.  Those fat contracts aren't guaranteed, and any hint of faking injuries would end up with teams suing to get back bonuses.  

That's the point behind having enough key players do it. If the backup cornerback or the camp fodder does this, they're gone. End of story and nobody is going to care. However, if the fat contract types do it, that's a different ball of wax. Sure the contracts aren't guaranteed, but the signing bonuses and other guaranteed $$$ has already been paid or has to be. If they want to litigate it based on breach of contract, if the players are still rolling with the feigning injury deal, it would be pretty hard to prove. If they release them, there's still the salary cap and empty spots that need to be filled, in addition to dragging all of this out in the media for months and how well their replacements play, or how poorly. And if they blackball those dudes, then more of the players respond with tight hammies. Wash rinse repeat.

2y5BRRz

 

Unfortunately, as Llevron says, the players are more concerned with their $$$ than with really doing anything. My point was that if they really want to, there are options.

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8 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Posting stories of examples isnt the same as having a conversation.  Im talking about discussing solutions.  Ive watched that thread.  Its been a while since there was meaningful discussion.

 

And Im not even sure how to take your first paragraph.

 

True. I guess my point is we have had that conversation and I'm pretty sure I know where you stand on it. What we need are people with power having these conversations and that's not even close to happening. 

 

And my first paragraph was a poorly written attempt at saying I understand where you are coming from even though it makes me mad sometimes and I'm sorry for jumping down your throat about it all the time

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So IMO this **** is starting to get real, everything up 'til now was setting the stage. The owners have thrown down a gauntlet, you WILL stand or else! So will we see everyone kneel to their paycheck instead of kneeling for the cameras? Stay tuned..................

 

Anquan Boldin- there's a guy who gets it. I am hoping he's not the only one.

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1 hour ago, Gamebreaker said:

 

You should post in these threads more. Just sayin'. 

 

My patience for this sort of thing is nowhere near the level of you and some of the others, and it gets a little shorter everyday.

 

Eventually, if one attempts to take me down a rabbit hole of wtf, after a certain point I will throw my hands up and just  tell them to go and drink a large bottle of antifreeze. 

 

I like posting here :)

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8 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

My patience for this sort of thing is nowhere near the level of you and some of the others, and it gets a little shorter everyday.

 

Eventually, if one attempts to take me down a rabbit hole of wtf, after a certain point I will throw my hands up and just  tell them to go and drink a large bottle of antifreeze. 

 

I like posting here :)

 

You need to pace yourself, things are going to get WAY worse before they get any better

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28 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

 

You need to pace yourself, things are going to get WAY worse before they get any better

 

Despite what i may say here or feel internally at the moment in the real world, my outward emotional reaction to this and all other related topics, is a lot different.

 

And although my immediate reactions here may provide a momentary glimpse into my feelings regarding this subject, I have all kinds of ways that I manage (and have managed) the toll it has taken on me personally, since November 9th,  just like im sure the rest of you have. 

 

If I couldn't handle it, I wouldn't be responding to you right now. The difference is that here, in this realm, if I don't want to deal with something or someone, I don't have to, but if compelled, I will (to a point). In life, I don't have that option

Edited by Mr. Sinister
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23 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

My patience for this sort of thing is nowhere near the level of you and some of the others, and it gets a little shorter everyday.

 

Eventually, if one attempts to take me down a rabbit hole of wtf, after a certain point I will throw my hands up and just  tell them to go and drink a large bottle of antifreeze. 

 

I like posting here :)

That's so wrong. It's actually bleach.

tenor.gif

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I'd say the first place that listening could begin is within the media that drives division for  profit. It won't happen, of course, because everyone is convinced the other side is the problem, and these media outlets are only too happy to continue this .. it makes them money. 

But the various media who have abandoned all pretense of objectivity and chosen sides could back off their battle lines and try to understand what the issues are that drive the protest, and conversely the counter protest.. If they could go about describing the problem rather than pointing at the method of protest, more people might listen.

And if more people listen, than maybe the people who need to listen will. If more people listen, then maybe compromise could be reached to continue the discussion.

This ignorance and pig-headed pride is nothing to sneeze at.. the Vietnam peace talks were delayed because the two sides refused to agree on the shape of the negotiation table. 
 

One of those leaders was at the Colts game yesterday, and he basically said the same "**** you" to the protest that keeps it going.

That signals that he doesn't care about what the protest is about.

And therein lies the whole problem. the leaders don't care, and so their followers won't listen.

 

Expect it to get worse. Anger is too easy to feed.

Listening ... well, that's akin to castration in too many people's ignorant minds.

 

~Bang

 

Edited by Bang
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If we were at the point where it was time to actually start discussing how to solve the problem (police brutality), and not the distraction(the flag and anthem), we'd actually need the other side to 1) acknowledge there is a problem. and 2) initiate the conversation in how to resolve it with the expectation that the players will stop kneeling if certain conditions are met. None of that has happened. Instead, the owners are now going to start playing hardball with the players the same way they do when they're negotiating the CBA. So like the politicians on the left and right, the media, and the fans, the owners have decided to ignore what the root cause of this is about and try to sweep this whole thing under the rug. 

 

And in regards to that other thread, if it's the right thread I'm thinking about, the intention of that thread was to prove a point not to start a conversation. A point which, we can tell the point has definitely been proven, since it's usual detractors have ceased attempting to debate the other side under overwhelming evidence. 

Edited by Gamebreaker
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1 hour ago, Bang said:

One of those leaders was at the Colts game yesterday, and he basically said the same "**** you" to the protest that keeps it going.

That signals that he doesn't care about what the protest is about.

Nobody knows what the protest is about, much less cares.  NFL players had 2 years to follow Kaep and pretty much didn't.  Now they kneel to try to get back at Trump.  So he antagonizes them.  Then, today idiot Jamele Hill tells people not to use NFL sponsors products.  Which is almost exactly what Trump wanted people to do in the first place.  All of which hurts the NFL and the players.  They don't realize that they are doing this to themselves.

Edited by TimmySmith
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