Burgold

Standing during the Pledge or National Anthem

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12 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Maybe its because we don't see them as pointless.

 

So now that we have the country's (and the world probably) attention, are we actually going to talk about the police treatment of blacks and debate solutions or are we going to keep dumping on Trump and the anti-protesters.

 

Edit:  i meant that as a collective we as a nation, not just we here in this thread.

 

Easy to view it that way when it's not you going over there. 

 

Add to it that I'll bet every dollar I have that most don't stand for the anthem when watching at home. 

 

Don't see many raising a stink over how poorly troops are paid and taken care of as vets,

 

But hey, let's all freak out over symbolism instead of actual actions. It's much easier! 

 

The newest protests are in response to Trump's words. Trump deserves every bit of the dumping and if you're anti-protest against those protesting race-based police brutality, which historically has been terrible in this country, then you too deserve that same dumping. 

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We don't stand, but our hands are on our hearts every time we hear it, whether it's sports or not...and I never fail to cry...sooooo many vets in both of our families.  But I support the protests whole-heartedly...it's what we all fought for...not the symbolism, but the freedoms that flag symbolizes

That's why the last line of the first verse is a question.  And it's never been more in question than right ****in' now.  Tangerine Man can make the answer a NO LONGER with a tweet.:(

 

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9 hours ago, twa said:

 

Oh I do, but I'm ready for a reset that won't be .....

Even you’re smarter to think that.

9 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Ha!  If Obama couldn't do it (a guy who I didn't agree with on a lot of policies but he was a hell of a leader), who the **** can?  I have zero hope that anyone else can if Obama could barely even move the needle.  

I think that the leadership will come from a source other than the White House.

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1 hour ago, elkabong82 said:

 

Easy to view it that way when it's not you going over there. 

 

Well this tells me you didnt read my other posts.  You dont know what I do for a living I guess.

 

I have been "over there".

 

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2 hours ago, justice98 said:

The Cowboys took a knee before the anthem and still got booed.  Shows this has nothing to do with disrespect for the flag or anthem.

 

 

While I agree somewhat (that a good portion of the push back isn't related to the anthem), it was the cowboys on the road. They should get booed all the time. ;)  I also wonder how many people there thought they were taking a knee for the anthem? I can see how their actions could be confusing unless it was explained over the PA like it was on TV.

 

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Well this tells me you didnt read my other posts.  You dont know what I do for a living I guess.

 

I have been "over there".

 

 

He does make a good point though. The GOP cares little to nothing about vets. I've always found it odd that they wash their hands of the military when the service members are no longer useful to them AND they get little to know fallout from it from current and past service members.

Edited by The Evil Genius

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4 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

 

He does make a good point though. The GOP cares little to nothing nothing about vets. I've always found it odd that they wash their hands of the military when the service members are no longer useful to them AND they get little to know fallout from it from current and past service members.

We (current and former) are used by both sides when it suites them.  However the state of the VA shows how much they really care.

 

I agree the country goes over board (and some vets) with what they think the military people are entitled to.  But taking care of issues that the military caused should be the first thing we care about and its not.  Of course some members abuse the VA system and that is partly why it is so screwed.  But that is getting a bit off topic 

 

I was more bothered by him saying "pointless wars".  That is something that greatly offends the pretty much all of us.  Then he told me its easy to have my opinion when I havent been semt over there........smh.

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15 hours ago, Bang said:

yesterday Trump did tweet that he recognized how important it was for the right of every citizen to be able to peacefully protest.. which is about as close as any apology anyone will get. I don't really care about public apologies.. meaningless..  learn the lesson, that means something.

And later he showed he really didn't.. Yay Nascar!

 

and for sure, let us not mistake it for what it all is,,  political theater.. throwing bones to the rabid.

 

~Bang

 

PS, i don't know that i like demanding to know who a person voted for as some sort of litmus test..  everyone has layers, and y'never know. til a person is a proven shill, they can hold their opinions and they should be given weight without having to know their voting record. Just my 2. 

 

and.. going even beyond that... there are almost no votes for "X", they are almost all votes for a basket, that includes "X".... and often this means that cynical bastages will attach a vote for "X" in a package that is 99% "Y" just to force a fake litmus test... and they either get to kill "Y"  (yay) or a fake soundbite on "X"  (yay again!)   

 

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14 hours ago, Springfield said:

I don’t think about veterans or the military when listening to the anthem.  If anything I think of revolutionary veterans.  Mostly I’m thinking, “****, I wish this game would start already.  I’m bored.”

 

 you aren't going to win many people over with this... and it CERTAINLY weakens the overall argument of the protest significance.

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13 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

No he hasn't.  If the NFL crashes and burns this season; then he will have succeeded.

 

Stadiums will need to be mostly empty. Ratings will have to completely crash.  If that happens, then Trump and his call for boycott will have been a success and he would've won.

 

Everything I've seen, it's been about 50-50.  Those who side support Trump, support his boycott and his position.  Those who didn't support Trump, side with the constitution and allowing the players to have their protest.

 

his "win" is that people are talking about this schlock.... rather than his mind boggling incompetence, rampant corruption, and the gathering storm of the Russia investigation that highlights both of those phenomenal inadequacies.   

 

 

Edited by mcsluggo
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2 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

 

his "win" is that people are talking about this schlock.... rather than his mind boggling incompetence, rampant corruption, and the gathering storm of the Russia investigation that highlights both of those phenomenal inadequacies.   

 

 

I never believed it until this weekend but he clearly did this intentionally. I never thought he was that smart. I wonder if he just plays dumb or if hes just really gifted at manipulating people. 

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29 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I never believed it until this weekend but he clearly did this intentionally. I never thought he was that smart. I wonder if he just plays dumb or if hes just really gifted at manipulating people. 

 

its not smart...nor stupid... it is his only strategy:   always push forward.    Always, no matter what.   And to some constituencies, this single-minded determination works wonders (and demonstrates some naive conceptualization of "strength")

 

in this PARTICULAR instance , the NFL (well... black people in the NFL, and perhaps the pinko libtards as well)...  from a political theatre standpoint they are just trannies with a different uniform.   Boogey men that he can protect "us" from      

Edited by mcsluggo

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3 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I never believed it until this weekend but he clearly did this intentionally. I never thought he was that smart. I wonder if he just plays dumb or if hes just really gifted at manipulating people. 

 

Have you seen Scott Adams (dilbert cartoon guy) you tube videos?  

 

He believes the secret to the Trump phenomenon is that Trump is just that - a master manipulator. 

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1 minute ago, mcsluggo said:

 

its not smart...nor stupid... it is his only strategy:   always push forward.    Always, no matter what.   And to some constituencies, this single-minded works wonders (and demonstrates some naive conceptualization of "strength")

 

in this PARTICULAR instance , the NFL (well... black people in the NFL, and perhaps the pinko libtards as well)...  from a political theatre standpoint they are just trannies with a different uniform.   Boogey men that he can protect "us" from      

 

I guess you have a point. Move forward and dont worry about counting the bodies along the way. My job gives us personality training.....its more about understanding who the people you are talking to might be so you can work with them....more than teaching you about yourself. Anyway, thats what they call 'High Red'. And got damn if it doesnt describe Trump very well. 

 

I am the highest 'Red' in my company by a large margin. Yay. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, grego said:

 

Have you seen Scott Adams (dilbert cartoon guy) you tube videos?  

 

He believes the secret to the Trump phenomenon is that Trump is just that - a master manipulator. 

 

I have not but I will youtube him today. Added to my list. Thanks! I know some people had this idea. I just didnt believe it until this. Dude did (or didnt do) so much this weekend and its all wayyyyy under the NFL thing. That is literally a fight he picked about nothing. He controlled the news like a bossturd and they let him to a degree. 

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19 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

 

 you aren't going to win many people over with this... and it CERTAINLY weakens the overall argument of the protest significance.

 

I wasn’t really trying to win anyone over.  I just don’t really think about modern military with the anthem.  I think about fighting the birttish for our independence.  And about how the Redskins are going to whoop that ass.

 

Not incredibly patriotic, I know.  But I know in my heart that I’m patriotic and I don’t need a song engrained into me before every sporting event to tell me that.  Plus, I’ve heard it hundreds or thousands of times.  I’m good.

14 minutes ago, grego said:

 

He believes the secret to the Trump phenomenon is that Trump is just that - a master manipulator. 

 

Well he is.  Who talks about his tax info any more, or the stupid ****ing wall, or even Russia’s manipulation of our election?  It’s Trump changing the narrative and the media running with his absurdities... and some Americans agreeing with it.

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If you like logic and exchange of idea type stuff, the podcast with Sam Harris that he did is interesting. 

 

Its all about the power of persuasion and techniques of persuasion and he gives examples of it. 

 

Also gets into this thing he calls "two movies", where two people watch the same thing, but come away with two completely different impressions. (not unlike the reaction to the Google memo)

 

Check out the one Adams did on the Trump rally/blm new york speech by Hank Newsome. He explains how Newsome won over the crowd. 

 

Kind of interesting. 

 

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Might this be a situation where a little empathy, understanding, and civility go a long way?

 

On one hand, the problem of police brutality and racial injustice is clearly a major problem that needs to be addressed.  And when anyone engages in a nonviolent protest to bring attention to that issue, I tend to feel in support of that.

 

On the other hand, we have veterans and active military members who say, look we know you are trying to bring attention to a major social evil, but the anthem and the flag means so much to us.  When you depart from accepted social decorum for the anthem and the flag as a means to bring attention to your cause, it feels disrespectful and wrong.  Not to say that it's illegal or anything like that, but just in the sense of is it really necessary to do this.  Isn't there a better way?

 

I can see reasonable people disagreeing on this issue and it doesn't make one side unpatriotic or the other side racist and blind to societal evil.  

 

To that end, I liked what I saw from the NFL yesterday.  Some may stand, some may kneel.  But instead of pointing fingers and arguing about how wrong the other side is, why not say "I get you".  I may not totally agree, but I see your point.  And whatever differences we may have, we share far more in common and we are not gonna let this difference pull us apart.  

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34 minutes ago, grego said:

 

Have you seen Scott Adams (dilbert cartoon guy) you tube videos?  

 

He believes the secret to the Trump phenomenon is that Trump is just that - a master manipulator. 

Adams is saying he was manipulated too? He is a proud supporter of Trump.

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I'm partial to the Mulder and Scully one personally. :)

 

 

 

 

 

As for Trumpy...he's from the viewpoint that no press is bad press. Even the worst stories are ok because he can label them as fake and still have his name mentioned. The only way to kill his brand is to ignore it or not talk about it. But that's impossible to do now, for obvious reasons.

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16 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Adams is saying he was manipulated too? He is a proud supporter of Trump.

 

I don't know. I believe politically Adams is sort of independent. What I see is Adams being more impressed with the methods, rather than the message. Or, I should say, when Trump says outrageous things, Adams doesn't believe Trump actually means them. He says these things to manipulate people. 

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