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Standing during the Pledge or National Anthem


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5 minutes ago, abdcskins said:

If someone hates the country they live in, I would expect them to want to live somewhere else. 

you created this position and are arguing against it. When did Kaepernick say he hates this country?

Like I said earlier, you are contradicting yourself.

 

3 minutes ago, Joe Porto said:

 

If the league allows this to become the norm, which will distract from the game, I will not continue to give them revenue. Sorry that offends you, snowflake. But keep up the good fight. 

your tears will be bigger than the Mississippi River, .suga.

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Snowflake? Sugar? Small fry? Ya know if you two are going break ol' rule number 5,you could at least come up with something a little better than that. With that in mind,here's a warning. No more of that or you find someplace else to "debate" this topic for awhile. My suggestion,is for both of you to either ignore each other, or just take a break from the thread. Either way,that'll be enough thanks. 

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But after a roughly 90-minute discussion with Nate Boyer, the former Army Green Beret and long snapper, and safety Eric Reid at the team hotel on Thursday afternoon, Kaepernick shifted gears in an effort to be more respectful to those offended by his protest.

"We were talking to him about how can we get the message back on track and not take away from the military, not take away from pride in our country but keep the focus on what the issues really are," Kaepernick said. "As we talked about it, we came up with taking a knee because there are issues that still need to be addressed and there was also a way to show more respect for the men and women that fight for this country."

 
 

"Once again, I'm not anti-American," Kaepernick said. "I love America. I love people. That's why I'm doing this. I want to help make America better. I think having these conversations helps everybody have a better understanding of where everybody is coming from.

"Those conversations are important to have because the better we understand each other, the better we know each other, the better we can deal and communicate with each other which ultimately makes everyone, puts everybody in a better position."

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And on a side note, up until Kap started kneeling, I have to admit...I didn't know much about FSK's background OR the 3rd verse from the anthem.  As I mentioned before, I never had an issue with what Kap is doing.  Now, after being a bit more informed both about the origins of the song AND after hearing Kap's stance, I REALLY have no issue with anyone who chooses to sit when the Star Spangled Banner is played.  Actually, I'm starting to question what I'll do at the next sporting event I attend. 

That being said, I have no qualms with America the Beautiful, God Bless America, or the Pledge of Allegiance. 

If people would just take a moment to 1) understand Kap's POV and actually listen/read what he has to say, and 2), realize that he's willing to move the stick and soften his stance (see the conversation he had w/ Boyer,) then maybe some of the character assassination against him for some of the most trivial things would cease.  Trying to gain perspective from someone else's POV is essential in trying to find any sort of common ground.  Until then, it's going to be more of the same...hot takes, bickering, and general ignorance. 

 

My quoting/editing got jacked up somehow...but this is what I had to say:

And on a side note, up until Kap started kneeling, I have to admit...I didn't know much about FSK's background OR the 3rd verse from the anthem.  As I mentioned before, I never had an issue with what Kap is doing.  Now, after being a bit more informed both about the origins of the song AND after hearing Kap's stance, I REALLY have no issue with anyone who chooses to sit when the Star Spangled Banner is played.  Actually, I'm starting to question what I'll do at the next sporting event I attend. 

That being said, I have no qualms with America the Beautiful, God Bless America, or the Pledge of Allegiance. 

If people would just take a moment to 1) understand Kap's POV and actually listen/read what he has to say, and 2), realize that he's willing to move the stick and soften his stance (see the conversation he had w/ Boyer,) then maybe some of the character assassination against him for some of the most trivial things would cease.  Trying to gain perspective from someone else's POV is essential in trying to find any sort of common ground.  Until then, it's going to be more of the same...hot takes, bickering, and general ignorance. 

Edited by RonArtest15
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6 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I know you wouldnt have supported Ali not fighting in Vietnam and Kareem boycotting the Olympics. Thats based off what you write in these threads. 

If this is your ExtremeSkins persona, then thats on you for representing yourself that way.

 

 

 

Ummmm, you don't know that for sure.  Pretty sure I've said that Kap has the right for free speech, I'm pretty sure I also said a few pages ago that people are dumb to keep attacking HIM for thinking that HE thinks he's oppressed or something which isn't the case at all.  Kap has never once said that this was about him, not once.  People keep projecting their own stuff onto him.

Where we differ is that you say this is "courageous" and I say this is chicken****.  He's not putting anything on the line at all.  He's still going to play football, he's still going to collect a check...what's the worst thing that's going to happen to him, some dumb hick fans burn his jersey?  Ali put it on the line, Ali stood up for what he believed in and lost THREE YEARS of his prime.  He lost a ton of money and a ton of opportunity to add on to his legacy.  What'd he gain? Universal respect from pretty much everyone for making an actual sacrifice for standing up what he believed in.  I'm assuming you can't see the difference here.

It's not courageous at all, it's decent move to shine some light on a topic that plenty of people have already been talking about for years.  Look no further than this board that had knockdown, drag-out threads that had everything to do with police shootings and violence.  Add onto that the fact that he never had an iota of political or social awareness before dating a girl that has plenty of it and you're looking at a bit of a poser.  I'm not calling him a fraud because he probably believes what he's saying but I don't think it's coming from an original place.

The socks are dumb.  They insult an entire group of working people, many of which are good, upstanding citizens.  Sure there are a few bad apples that are giving the rest a bad name but if you want to be respected you should acknowledge that and Kaepernick doesn't.  

So go right ahead, keep telling me what I believe and keep ducking any point I've made that isn't in lockstep with what you think.  Do me a favor and read this post twice if you decide to reply.

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Those who want to take steps to understand, will make the effort. Those who don't, will not.

 

I mean if our founding fathers, and other people in our history who were put on a pedestal weren't by any means infallible and yet were (numerous instances covered in various history books for those who actually read it) but were celebrated for the good they did, and if we can have a portion of the country that has no problem defending a flag that would have seen to the destruction of the America and the American military everyone suddenly loves so much (Because you'd think "Make America Great Again" must mean its a hot mess), then they'd have no issue seeing what Kaepernick is talking about... whether they agree with some methods or not.

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20 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

At a parade, do what you want.  An employee standing at a company function is part of his job.

Up to the "Company"

 

And doing what your job tells you never has, never should, and never will stop anyone from  making a stand in what they believe in.

 

If it did, America would be a much different place.

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1 minute ago, DogofWar1 said:

Protest seems contained to National Anthem.

And as he said, "the flag of a country..."  Those were his words. 

I don't know why he didn't say "my country".  Then again, maybe I do.  He does have freedom to go elsewhere if he so chooses.  But I guess he'd rather make noise here, other places don't have such freedom. 

Hope he can make it selling bathroom tile or whatever he's gonna be doing when this is over.

 

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I find it funny how the San Francisco Police Union wants Kap to apologize...meanwhile, this is the same union that represents the departments that had all those vile/racist texts. 

 

*Now Kap is going to be selling bathroom tiles...LOL.  U guys are something else with the salt. 

Edited by RonArtest15
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9 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

you know why? because mainstream Americae dont want to talk about that stuff.

Yup, no one was talking about it. It wasn't a major topic in the first segment of pretty much every cable tv news show, for the last 2 years or so, at least once a week if not 5 times a week.

It wasn't a major topic in radio news either.

Here at ES we certainly haven't had hundreds of threads over the issue over the last few years, that reach many of pages, that also include posters reflecting on what they see from major social media outlets like facebook and twitter.

If you really think about it, we're pretty damn lucky we have someone like Colin Kaepernick to take a stand (or not - lol) and get us all together to discuss this important issue that main stream america has been trying so hard to avoid discussing over the last 2 years.

(Ok hundreds of threads is probably an exageration. It's probly somewhere in the 25-50 threads area)

 

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18 minutes ago, RonArtest15 said:

I find it funny how the San Francisco Police Union wants Kap to apologize...meanwhile, this is the same union that represents the departments that had all those vile/racist texts. 

 

*Now Kap is going to be selling bathroom tiles...LOL.  U guys are something else with the salt. 

My big one was the "You're here to entertain me" post from the other page.

 

But  yeah, the long held " they'll be flipping burgers" stuff in reference to guys who will be cut soon, just, in my mind, highlights the ignorance and flat out disrespect concerning athletes that I've long held a problem with

 

You think they don't deserve the money they make? Don't watch them and put food on their table

 

Many of these dudes go into medicine, law, business, etc, but flip dem burgers, dawg.

 

Its exactly why I hope more and more players decide to sit, even those amongst the Redskins. Bring even more attention to a problem, that unlike the goals of nost everyday NFL fans, doesn't go away for three hours.

 

Let them not give their revenue, and make an even bigger statement, thas great as this country is, it can be better, and we will not sit up and reattach ourselves to the boot of Roger Goodell until we see the type of progress that we deem acceptable.

 

They want to fine and cut players because of it? Let them. Just further shows how further full of **** they are when they'll sign dudes that have actually committed crimes.

The reason they haven't yet done it is likely because they know that is a hypocrisy freight train that will run them the hell over.

 

 

Edited by Mr. Sinister
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Kaepernick not standing for anthem is misguided IMO. But, that is his right. Frankly, he is alienating more people that share his view than he would ever get by other means of protest, so be it. 

My issue is his socks. Clearly a blanket statement. This is analogous to any other blanket statements regarding any group of people. Analogous to law enforcement profiling. It is offensive, inflammatory and in all likelihood directed primarily at white officers based on stance above- thus racist. It sends a horrible message and he should be suspended indefinitely.

So, listening to some of the media continue to defend him, to me, is outrageous. If somebody wore socks with derogatory imagery of another group of people I would love to see the reaction. The oh so eloquent Michael Smith, the professor Booger McFarland, on and on. Get a clue.

America is an open minded country. We elected a black president with a Muslim name at the heights of the greatest Islamic strife in our country's history. Racial oppression existed in every major civilization in mankind, India, Egypt, Europe, throughout time. However, everything that is wrong with America can be fixed with everything that's right with it. I wouldn't alienate allies in the pursuit of racial equity.

America has been a civilization more advanced than all others in past history. But the socks he wore crossed the line. Means for immediate and indefinite suspension. I challenge anyone here with gainful employment wear similar to your job. State same premise as Colin. Let me know how it goes

 

Edited by Bonez3
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1 minute ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Many of these dudes go into medicine, law, business, etc, but flip dem burgers, dawg.
 

Yet 78% of them are dead or have declared bankruptcy within 2 years of leaving a sport where the average salary is $2 million a year, the median salary is $860,000, and the minimum salary for last year's players was $435,000 (8 times the median household income in this country)

Take issue with the idea that they'll be burger flippers all you want, because some of them are actually smart people, but the numbers show the majority of them are athletes with little ability to make anything close to reasonable decisions with money much less do anything of reasonable success outside of play a game.

Not to mention that this goes hand in hand with most people's experiences growing up with star athletes and the observations you can make about them.

Oh, and the numerous reports we see about how inept the average college player is and investigations into university wide scandals when it comes to tests, grades,classes, etc.

 

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3 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

the professor Booger McFarland,

 

Off topic, watching Booger on the SEC network last night, I wish he had a bigger gig.  His Sirius XM morning show with Ross Tucker was among the greatest sports talk pairings ever.

I haven't heard his comments on the Kap thing, sounds like I would disagree with him.  But I still love him (and Ross T) :)

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Yea- Booger is good. It's just these guys are good at sports commentary and they're shifting gears to discuss sociological matters and their whole tone changes. It's not their forte but they keep the same air about themselves as if they're discussing the SEC.

Edited by Bonez3
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2 minutes ago, tshile said:

Yet 78% of them are dead or have declared bankruptcy within 2 years of leaving a sport where the average salary is $2 million a year, the median salary is $860,000, and the minimum salary for last year's players was $435,000 (8 times the median household income in this country)

Take issue with the idea that they'll be burger flippers all you want, because some of them are actually smart people, but the numbers show the majority of them are athletes with little ability to make anything close to reasonable decisions with money much less do anything of reasonable success outside of play a game.

Not to mention that this goes hand in hand with most people's experiences growing up with star athletes and the observations you can make about them.

Oh, and the numerous reports we see about how inept the average college player is and investigations into university wide scandals when it comes to tests, grades,classes, etc.

 

I agree. People are stupid...

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It's a mixed bag when athletes try and make political stands.  On the one hand, their celebrity brings a ton of attention to the issues they protest about.  On the other hand, they're usually complete novices when it comes to politics and public relations and public policy so they blunder into these intricate political issues like a bull in a china shop and do more harm than good.

Case in point is Kaepernick.  His message and actions were muddled and immediately construed as anti-military and anti-American.  Doh.  OK, so now try to find a way to get back on message and avoid the anti-military stuff.  But now the message is straying into this silly "the anthem is racist" territory that is going to go nowhere and will totally distract from the original message of being against police killings of black men.

Kaepernick is no Kareem.  Kareem can hold court on an hour long NPR show on civil rights issues that effect black people and Muslim Americans with unimpeachable dignity and eloquence.  There aren't many Kareems.  That's why I think Kaepernick should find and join an advocacy organization that does the politics of these issues for a living and take guidance from them.  Trying to do this on his own is not working.

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I also think there's a valid issue in discerning between a sports start using their celebrity to get into political issues, and a sports start using their sport to get into political issues.

Sports is a nice distraction from work, worries in life (finances, health issues, etc), and yes - politics. As I've grown older (and maybe it's because I've grown older, not because anything has actually changed) politics has infested damn near every part of life - family get together's (be it saturday bbq or an actual holiday), work lunches, etc. Sports seemed to be one of the few things where a group of us could get together and thoroughly enjoy ourselves without someone stepping into politics (a topic that can cause friends to start yelling at each other.)

I've already grown sick of how political news coverage has taken over sports coverage, the two are identical in their worthlessness, absurdness, and how they dumb down the discussion.

I really don't want to be in the stadium during the anthem and having to deal with people booing players because they're using the anthem to protest, or listening to press conferences after the game be taken over by this stuff, or anything else. It's just not what I want.

(and there's a difference between not liking/wanting something, or having something impact how much you enjoy something, and being the various ridiculous things some of you have called others for not liking this.)

 

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