Burgold

Standing during the Pledge or National Anthem

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Whomever does not remove there hat during the anthem let alone stand and put there hand over there heart is just so wrong in many ways.  to bring this about during a sporting event is classless.  leave politics out of sports, he just became public idiot and when he gets cut expect him to say well it was because I did this ....

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1 hour ago, boobiemiles said:

 I hope we start asking why people can set up businesses in the black community but you will never see a black business in a white, asian, or middle eastern community. 

 

Where you live?.... there are plenty here

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i think he should stand. But if he chooses to sit to make a statement, that's on him.

Now,, i don't really think we need to play the anthem before every game, i don't think we need to unfurl a giant flag every single game, and i don't think the NFL should pay the military to do fly-overs for every game, and i generally think that we are overly-nationalistic and militaristic.
I don't think it's necessary, and I really don't see where it has brought us together as a nation, it has never prevented American assholes from attacking other American assholes at NFL games, it has never given anyone a sense of basic respect for the people near them in the crowd.

i think it's part of the show, and i think those things should not BE a show. Should not be part of folly.

Sports is folly, entertainment. 
Honoring our services, supporting them, engaging the audience in any sense of national pride or unity..   it doesn't happen.

~Bang

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I guess my problem with it is that if no one asked him why he's sitting no one would have a clue what he's protesting about. If he sat, but raised his hand in a gesture or held up a BLM sign, or did something specific then I would see it differently. Just sitting is too, I suppose, but I don't know the flavor of that protest.

He has stated that it's about rejecting racial corruption and abuse in America. That's a worthy thing to protest. I guess to me there is a difference between a protest and a gesture.

Kaepernick is making a gesture not participating in a protest. I don't know if that makes sense. For those I've offended by trying to bring in the Pledge of Allegiance thing and why some choose not to stand or recite in school, I apologize. 

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3 hours ago, boobiemiles said:

I hope we start asking why people can set up businesses in the black community but you will never see a black business in a white, asian, or middle eastern community. 

:wtf:

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37 minutes ago, Hersh said:

What makes something a gesture vs it being a protest?

 

 

In my book, it's a gesture if you know they are making a statement, but it's undefined. A protest is organized and based on a statement or course of desired actions. Protests have specific complaints and hopefully (though not always) a list desired remedies.

By sitting... he could be trying to make a statement about the prison pipeline, it could be crumbling infrastructure, it could be police shootings, it could be any number of things. It could be all of it. But we don't really know what the sitting means. Even now, we don't really know what he's protesting about specifically and what remedies he is seeking.

Just my .02. I could be wrong in looking at this. I like to think of protests as an active way to seek a cure. Not just registering a complaint.

For example, by wearing a black lives matter t-shirt, WNBA players were demanding redress of police abuse. I think that was both a gesture and a protest.

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Regardless if we feel his stand is the right or the wrong way to handle it, he now needs to become actively involved in some sort of community efforts to work towards whatever change he is hoping to see come out of it or else he will look foolish in my opinion 

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This is the second half of the third verse:

No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Key wrote this section specifically about the black slaves who fought for the British during the War of 1812 in exchange for their freedom (and the chance to fight their oppressors).  While I stand during the anthem, it certainly has some racist roots and I won't begrudge anyone who doesn't stand.

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There are men wearing his same uniform who are far more aware of the struggle than he is, who have lived through it and overcome it.

They're standing.

Of course, they're also playing. I don't think it's a coincidence that Kaepernick is attempting to gain political/social relevance now that it is clear his football relevance has ended.

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When I see our flag I see a symbol of freedom and I think about those that sacrificed their lives for that freedom. You disrespect both when you pull a Kaeperdick. Of course, once again, political correctness comes to the forefront. Am I angry? No. Am I disgusted? Yes.

Edited by KingGibbs
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23 minutes ago, redskindan07 said:

Regardless if we feel his stand is the right or the wrong way to handle it, he now needs to become actively involved in some sort of community efforts to work towards whatever change he is hoping to see come out of it or else he will look foolish in my opinion 

I think that's exactly right. If this becomes an "and" situation where he sits and acts then while I may look sideways at the choice of sitting, I will respect it more.

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22 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

There is no reason for the national anthem to be played at domestic sporting events. Its stupid.

That's like your opinion or something.

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Has there been reporting that he is taking no other action? There seems to be that assumption by some. 

 

42 minutes ago, KingGibbs said:

When I see our flag I see a symbol of freedom and I think about those that sacrificed their lives for that freedom. You disrespect both when you pull a Kaeperdick. Of course, once again, political correctness comes tp the forefront. Am I angry? No. Am I disgusted? Yes.

 

Isn't he doing the opposite of political correctness?

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The fact that this is what we choose to get angry about or focus our energy on as a country is amazing.

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Do they play the National Anthem before every movie? Do they play the National Anthem before every concert? Do they play the National Anthem before every round of golf? Do they play the National Anthem before every night of drinking? No. They only play the National Anthem at sporting events. There is no damn reason for it to be played before every sporting event. The National Anthem was written in 1814. The Emancipation Proclamation was issued in 1863. The penned words did not mean the same thing to slaves as it meant to free men.  I am a vet of the Army with multiple deployments, and Kap sitting for the anthem doesn't register with me.

Count me in the end the National Anthem at sporting events crowd...

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I don't care about anything Kaepernick does.  He could pour gasoline on himself and light himself on fire before a game and I would just shrug my shoulders a go back to doing what I was doing.

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7 minutes ago, Springfield said:

So, what does this all accomplish?

 

Ask again in a few years when maybe the collective dissent of minorities in this country will help accomplish their fair treatment from law enforcement. 

39 minutes ago, Hersh said:

Isn't he doing the opposite of political correctness?

 

Minorities demanding their fair treatment is part of the "PC culture" that a select group of people get incredibly upset about. We're all supposed to shut up and be thankful for how good we have it now.

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We should  totally let Canada in on this "stop the anthem before events" idea.

I know patriot-shaming isn't a uniquely American pursuit, but it certainly seems that way some days.

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1 hour ago, redskindan07 said:

Regardless if we feel his stand is the right or the wrong way to handle it, he now needs to become actively involved in some sort of community efforts to work towards whatever change he is hoping to see come out of it or else he will look foolish in my opinion 

I'll ask the same thing I did in the ATN thread: how many people saying he needs to be doing stuff in the community have taken the time to look at what he's actually doing in the community?  I don't like that he choose to sit during the anthem, but I understand some of his reasoning and that he's not just sitting on the bench for attention to himself.  I find it unfortunate that I keep seeing the same bullet points in different ways:

 

1. He must hate America 

2. He's disrespecting our troops

3. He's ungrateful for what America has done for him

4. Why doesn't he do something besides just sit during the national anthem?

 

This should be a poll.  Again, I don't like that he did it, but I also don't like that instead of it bringing attention to issue he's protesting, the majority of reactions are to go after him personally.  If anything it should be a lesson for others going forward, because it doesn't look like this is really working or helping at all.  Everytime I try to talk about what he's protesting about, it keeps coming back to he shouldn't not stand for the national anthem.

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