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CNN: Supreme Court strikes down Texas abortion access law

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1 minute ago, MartinC said:

 

Speaking as a father (and grandfather) I do think the man should have a say - but not the final say/decision. That’s the woman’s prerogative in my opinion. 

 

Coming to think about it that rule applies to pretty much any subject you care to mention in our house.

So if he doesn't get final say (which is really the only say that matters on this topic) should he have to pay etc?  

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Just now, TheGreatBuzz said:

So if he doesn't get final say (which is really the only say that matters on this topic) should he have to pay etc?  

 

Do you mean child support or the cost of the abortion?

 

In the case were he gets a woman pregnant  but wants her to abort but she won’t then yes he should still be liable for child support IMO.  But if he does not want her to have an abortion but she decides to go ahead I don’t think he should have to pay for that abortion. 

 

As ever what I think plus $5 will get you a latte at Starbucks.

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1 hour ago, MartinC said:

 It’s not about who shares these views - it’s about who within that population has the power to impose their view on the rest. 

 

Aren't there more female voters than male?

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5 minutes ago, twa said:

 

Aren't there more female voters than male?

 

No. And it was increased female turnout and voting patterns which were a big part of the Democratic gains in the last mid terms. A pattern to watch in 2020.

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20 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I have a question for the group.

 

Since abortion rights almost always include discussion about a women's body autonomy, control over her own body/health, etc. do you all think the father should get any say whatsoever in this?

 

 

 

I think the guy  (assuming it's not a rapist or incest situation), should have a say and consult with the woman and they should try their hardest to come to an agreement, but ultimately the decision is going to fall on the person that is pregnant.  It might be a double standard or considered "unbalanced" giving the woman the ultimate decision-making power in this situation, but there is really no other way to go about it.  It's not like the man has to carry the fetus/baby for 50% of the term.  

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9 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Do you mean child support or the cost of the abortion?

 

In the case were he gets a woman pregnant  but wants her to abort but she won’t then yes he should still be liable for child support IMO.  But if he does not want her to have an abortion but she decides to go ahead I don’t think he should have to pay for that abortion. 

 

As ever what I think plus $5 will get you a latte at Starbucks.

I meant pay child support.  

 

We'll see what more people say but I find it interesting that you two think the women should get full control of the decision but the man should be responsible for the next 18 years after laying down for 20 minutes of fun.

 

Just now, NoCalMike said:

 

I think the guy  (assuming it's not a rapist or incest situation), should have a say and consult with the woman and they should try their hardest to come to an agreement, but ultimately the decision is going to fall on the person that is pregnant.  It might be a double standard or considered "unbalanced" giving the woman the ultimate decision-making power in this situation, but there is really no other way to go about it.  It's not like the man has to carry the fetus/baby for 50% of the term.  

Wouldn't another option be for the father to have to make his wish known by a certain time then the female has the choice of a aborting or keeping the child knowing she would be going at it alone?  The father still wouldn't be getting final say of whether the child is born or not.

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1 minute ago, MartinC said:

 

No. And it was increased female turnout and voting patterns which were a big part of the Democratic gains in the last mid terms. A pattern to watch in 2020.

 

?

 

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1 minute ago, twa said:

 

?

 

  •  

I meant to say no there are not LESS women voters. Replied with a negative when I meant a positive. You are right there are more women voters - and they being pissed (overall) about this subject will not play well for the GOP.

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1 minute ago, MartinC said:

I meant to say no there are not LESS women voters. Replied with a negative when I meant a positive. You are right there are more women voters - and they being pissed (overall) about this subject will not play well for the GOP.

 

So they are the majority imposing their will on us helpless males?

 

:pint:

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24 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

 

Wouldn't another option be for the father to have to make his wish known by a certain time then the female has the choice of a aborting or keeping the child knowing she would be going at it alone?  The father still wouldn't be getting final say of whether the child is born or not.

 

 

No I think the guy who participated in getting a woman pregnant should support her decision and live with the ramifications of it either way. Like I said, is it sort of hypocritical? Sure, but I will go to bat being a hypocrite on this specific issue.

 

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51 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I have a question for the group.

 

Since abortion rights almost always include discussion about a women's body autonomy, control over her own body/health, etc. do you all think the father should get any say whatsoever in this?

 

If you said no, do you think a father who wanted the women to get an abortion should still be responsible for paying child support?  Or if he wants her to keep the child and and she doesn't want to, should his opinion matter at all?  

 

Is there a way to make the situation more "fair"?

 

@LadySkinsFan I'm very interested in your opinion on this? 

Hard question, I think the father should have a say, but no one should be forced to do anything they don't want to do. If the father wants the baby and the mother doesn't, sorry dude, no baby for you. If the mother wants the baby and the father doesn't, sorry dude, you have a baby. I don't know what to say about that or how to "fix" it, but the government should have no say in how they decide to come to a conclusion.

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20 minutes ago, twa said:

 

So they are the majority imposing their will on us helpless males?

 

:pint:

 

No the minority are (elderly white males - of which I’m one). That’s my point. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, MartinC said:

 It’s not about who shares these views - it’s about who within that population has the power to impose their view on the rest. 

 

Women are voting for these men, no? 

 

Jumped the gun a bit. Stull as much as I dislike how the system works, these people are voted in and largely by women. Not sure that's the same as men imposing their will on women who have no say. 

Edited by grego
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40 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I have a question for the group.

 

Since abortion rights almost always include discussion about a women's body autonomy, control over her own body/health, etc. do you all think the father should get any say whatsoever in this?

 

No, labor is painful AF, if a woman doesnt want to go through that she should have to. The crazy thing is that's not even why so many people want to ban it.

 

40 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

If you said no, do you think a father who wanted the women to get an abortion should still be responsible for paying child support?  Or if he wants her to keep the child and and she doesn't want to, should his opinion matter at all?  

 

Is there a way to make the situation more "fair"?

 

@LadySkinsFan I'm very interested in your opinion on this? 

 

That's because the government doesnt want to pay anymore them it already does to supplement incomes for childcare and theres a lot of money made in keeping people in jail for child support.  Its hard to say that system is working considering how many people in poverty are getting child support and the kids are still getting failing grades perpetuating the cycle.

 

Dont think fathers or mothers should pay child support because I think it does more harm then good, big picture.

 

But back to fathers having a say, this isnt like normal issues that people can make reasonable comparisons to because your talking about telling someone to give birth to another person.  Couples have discussions about health choices all the time, but the husband cant tell his wife how many kids he wants and make her do that, that feels dehumanizing AF.

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Just now, grego said:

 

Women are voting for these men, no? 

 

Yep. But they came out and voted in increased numbers last Nov and guess what we got a record number of women and minority candidates voted into office. Mainly democrats. 

 

Something to think about.

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If Males were the ones that got pregnant, imagine them asking permission to terminate the pregnancy. LOL.

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3 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

No the minority are (elderly white males - of which I’m one). That’s my point. 

 

But women obviously elected those elderly white males since they both outnumber and outvote us.

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Just now, twa said:

 

But women obviously elected those elderly white males since they both outnumber and outvote us.

I'm drunk, so I'll just say it: they're stupid.

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53 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I have a question for the group.

 

Since abortion rights almost always include discussion about a women's body autonomy, control over her own body/health, etc. do you all think the father should get any say whatsoever in this?

 

If you said no, do you think a father who wanted the women to get an abortion should still be responsible for paying child support?  Or if he wants her to keep the child and and she doesn't want to, should his opinion matter at all?  

 

Is there a way to make the situation more "fair"?

 

@LadySkinsFan I'm very interested in your opinion on this? 

 

I think there are many cases where the father should get a say in this but the ramifications (IMO) should be interpersonal and not legal.

 

If a woman wants to get an abortion but the father doesn’t, the woman ultimately has the say and they should probably also terminate their relationship while they’re at it.

 

The inverse gets trickier because women are allowed to birth a child that the man doesn’t want.  Legally, the man is also responsible for the child even though he wanted the pregnancy terminated.  As we call it, “the trap”.

 

Trap babies are a tough subject.

6 minutes ago, grego said:

 

Women are voting for these men, no? 

 

Often they aren’t given the option of a woman.

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Just now, twa said:

 

But women obviously elected those elderly white males since they both outnumber and outvote us.

 

To date. Keep pissing them off and let’s see how that works out - alienating young people, people of colour and women is an ‘interesting’ electoral strategy - no wonder voter suppression is rampant.

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Just now, Simmsy said:

I'm drunk, so I'll just say it: they're stupid.

 

Since my wife (a feminist,abortion rights warrior, is a damn Trumpist) I'm gonna agree with you.

 

Don't let it go to your head

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1 minute ago, Springfield said:

 

I think there are many cases where the father should get a say in this but the ramifications (IMO) should be interpersonal and not legal.

 

If a woman wants to get an abortion but the father doesn’t, the woman ultimately has the say and they should probably also terminate their relationship while they’re at it.

 

The inverse gets trickier because women are allowed to birth a child that the man doesn’t want.  Legally, the man is also responsible for the child even though he wanted the pregnancy terminated.  As we call it, “the trap”.

 

Trap babies are a tough subject.

We will 

 

1 minute ago, twa said:

 

Since my wife (a feminist,abortion rights warrior, is a damn Trumpist) I'm gonna agree with you.

 

Don't let it go to your head

Sorry, you lost me at Trumpist.

 

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1 minute ago, Simmsy said:

 

Sorry, you lost me at Trumpist.

 

 

She is a rabid Trump supporter.

She plays the piano and French horn, not the trumpet.

 

Did I mention I have been drinking?

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1 minute ago, Simmsy said:

 

Sorry, you lost me at Trumpist.

 

 

Dont be alarmed, I’m pretty sure TWA’s wife is in the orchestra.

 

B2044-B43-4928-4384-93-C6-D5336449-A986.

 

We will see how long Atlanta lets this law lay on the books, it’s going to cost them a lot of money....

 

Some limitations on abortion are fine, but at first sign of a heartbeat? Nah.... 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I have a question for the group.

 

Since abortion rights almost always include discussion about a women's body autonomy, control over her own body/health, etc. do you all think the father should get any say whatsoever in this?

 

If you said no, do you think a father who wanted the women to get an abortion should still be responsible for paying child support?  Or if he wants her to keep the child and and she doesn't want to, should his opinion matter at all?  

 

Is there a way to make the situation more "fair"?

 

@LadySkinsFan I'm very interested in your opinion on this? 

 

Males shouldn't have any say in women's bodily autonomy, period. They have their say in the process before conception, and if they don't want to be fathers and financially responsible for a child once it's born, they can exercise their own bodily autonomy using birth control methods available to them. This way, they practice positive and responsible choices for themselves. Too many males leave birth control decisions in the hands of females. Males can also practice abstinence, that way ensuring that they won't supply sperm without their express consent.

 

No one has the right to force females to complete a pregnancy. That's slavery.

 

 

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