No Excuses

The Brexit Thread

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For those in the US who think those who voted for Brexit are foolis: how would you like a "North American Union", headquartered in say, Ontario, run by unelected bureaucrats that can effectively make US law?  

 

So...stop using the Articles of Confederation, and start using...

 

USconstitutionWeThePeople.jpg

 

...a real constitution.

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Market is closed and I have returned and taken all of the calls at this point.  I am calling it a day....I will thank the UK for my hangover tomorrow morning.  :angry:

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1) C1, C2, and DE demographic groups (read: middle class and poor) voted to re-establish UK sovereignty 

 

Did they vote to leave the UN and NATO too?

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1. You entirely missed the point of shipping every elected official to Siberia. It's just so that we couldn't re-elect the dingdongs.

2. You're probably right about there being a no-confidence every 3-4 months. Hmmm. Ok, how about this: If you are an elected member, and you're sent to Siberia, you can't be re-elected ever. So, eventually, we'd just run out of people to elect, because we'd have moved everybody to Siberia?

I think that might work.

Eventually Siberia will get fed up with us sending them our rapists and murderers, and some presumably good people, and build a wall to keep our politicians out.

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Striking resemblance to those in the US who vote a certain way . . . against their own economic interests.

 

Economic interests aren't everything, and certainly aren't the only thing. 

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Personally, I'd say its more like the original 13 colonies giving up state powers to a federal government who gets to set some rules that trump the state rules.

Is that so? Honest question.

It doesn't sound to me like the EU gives member states representation the way our federal government gives individual states representation.

My understanding is that the EU consists of these 7 institutions: European Council, the Council of the European Union, the European Parliament, the European Commission, the Court of Justice of the European Union, the European Central Bank and the European Court of Auditors.

The legislature consists of The Council of the EU and The European Parliament (with budgetary oversight provided by the Court of Auditors). The executive role is filled by the the European Commission and European Council. The judiciary is the Court of Justice of the EU. The European Central Bank is a bit like the Fed.

Of these institutions, only the European Parliament is democratically elected. So it would be a bit like US citizens only being able to elect members to the House of Representatives (only with the House having even less power), but having no say in the Presidency or Senate.

That's my limited understanding anyway. Admittedly I don't know much about this, so I'd welcome any corrections.

Edited by s0crates

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Don't they have a trans-national election to elect the President and parliament of the EU? Don't all the member states participate in said election?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_election,_2014

 

There is another one in 2019. UK has a say. So does Germany. So does France. So does all the other members. 

 

Or am I missing something?

Edited by The Evil Genius

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You really imagine that went into this? You think old people sat around saying "well we've only got 10 years of life left so we can stand to ruin everything with minimal discomfort, let's do it!" Honestly, I find this particular argument to be completely ridiculous.

There are valid arguments for wanting the UK to stay in the EU, "old people don't have to live long" is not among them.

u_zpsljyucxpe.jpg

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https://www.buzzfeed.com/borzoudaragahi/iran-wants-to-brexit-and-chill?utm_term=.xx5oggYj2#.dmL9nnpyG

Iran Sees Brexit And The Potential Collapse Of The EU As A Historic Opportunity

 

While global stock markets plummeted and gloomy U.S. and European policymakers gnashed their teeth in despair, Iran’s leaders were overjoyed that the United Kingdom voted on Thursday to leave the European Union.

 

Political and military officials in Iran applauded the results of the U.K. referendum, with one official calling it a “historic opportunity” for the Islamic Republic.

 

“Stars in the flag of unity are falling in Europe; Britain’s exit from the EU is an historic opportunity for Iran,” Hamid Abutalebi, deputy chief of staff of the presidential office for political affairs, was quoted as saying by the semi-official Tasnim news agency. “We should take advantage of this new opportunity.”

 

Abutalebi said the EU had lost the trust of Europeans and that economic troubles in southern Europe, terror attacks, and refugee arrivals “are signs of the collapse of the EU.”

 

Neither Abutalebi nor others detailed the exact reasons why Iran viewed the potential demise of European unity as a win for Iran. Though Europe is an important trading partner of Iran, Iranian officials have long believed they would fare better in relations with individual European countries if they were untethered from the generally pro-U.S. policymakers in Brussels. It was under U.S. pressure that the EU ultimately imposed trade sanctions on Iran that led to the dismantling of its nuclear program.

 

Brigadier General Massoud Jazayeri, deputy chief of staff of Iran’s armed forces, characterized the U.K. vote as a rejection of U.S.-style policies.

 

“The only way for the European Union to survive is to state openly its independence from the White House,” he was quoted as saying by Iran’s semi-official Mehr news agency. “The desire of the people of England to exit the European Union in fact means that the majority of the people in that country are saying ‘no’ to the British government continuing to impose the will of America on the country.”

Edited by visionary

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Let's not jump to conclusions at the joy of Putin and Iran. They are misunderstood and probably have the UKs best interests at heart.

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Eventually Siberia will get fed up with us sending them our rapists and murderers, and some presumably good people, and build a wall to keep our politicians out.

I dunno, I'm a good negotiator. They'll build the wall to keep them in, and pay for it.

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Don't they have a trans-national election to elect the President and parliament of the EU?

Don't all the member states participate in said election?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_election,_2014

There is another one in 2019. UK has a say. So does Germany. So does France. So does all the other members.

Or am I missing something?

Again my understanding of this is quite limited, so I welcome any corrections, but I don't think there is really such a thing as "President of the EU." Each branch of the EU government has its own president, so they have at least these four "presidents":

1. President of the European Council

2. President of the European Commission

3. President of the European Parliament

4. President of the Council of the European Union.

My understanding is that the European Parliament is the only elected body, and their power is quite limited. The executive role is mainly filled by the European Commission.

It seems you're right that European citizens did have a vote on President of the Comission for the first time in 2014, although apparently the rules stipulate that said votes only need to be "taken into account."

To be honest, it is awfully unclear to me how the Kafkaesque EU government works. I have a hard time blaming Brits who want out of the bureaucratic nightmare, but I'm not very confident in my opinion here. I'm open to being corrected by people who understand this mess better than I.

Edited by s0crates

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Let's not jump to conclusions at the joy of Putin and Iran. They are misunderstood and probably have the UKs best interests at heart.

I think that if your enemies are toasting in the streets the next day, it's a clear indication you've ****ed the dog.

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It is pretty crazy that a simple majority in a single vote can trigger the withdrawl. They should have mandated 2/3 vote in government or referendum to trigger article 50.

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And here I thought that guy who tried to steal the police officer's gun at a Trump rally was the dumbest Brit alive.  

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GMTA

 

I'm wondering if we should be buying pounds and Euros, for our trip now.   

 

flights half price and the the currency rate is the lowest in 31 years.  are you serious!!

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Have we worked the 'racist isolationist nativist idiots' out of our system yet?

Can I ask, for people more informed on the area, how much of this might have to do with Germany and its austerity measures during the global recession? Or maybe, in general, how much they might dislike Germany's control of the euro?

I honest don't know, and am curious.

Edited by tshile

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