Tommy-the-Greek Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 I wanted to know how everyone here would rank them and if Dick Vermeil has a chance to break the top ten if he wins the superbowl this year? Here are my top ten. 1. Vince Lombardi 2. George Halas 3. Curly Lambeau 4. Tom Landry 5. Don Shula 6. Paul Brown 7. Chuck Noll 8. Joe Gibbs 9. Bill Walsh 10. Bill Parcells Guys who are in the top 10-25 Dick Vermeil George Allen Hank Stram Weeb Ewbanks Marv Levy Bud Grant George Seifert Dan Reeves Tom Flores Mike Shanahan Mike Holmgren Jimmy Johnson John Madden Who did I forget that should be in this group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Your list is pretty good, IMO, I would only move Shula up to #3, possibly 2. If Vermiel wins a SB in the next couple of years then YES, he is surely on that list. At this time, IMO, Vermeil is the best coach in the league PERIOD, bar none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 where's Norv? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy-the-Greek Posted November 15, 2003 Author Share Posted November 15, 2003 I thought 3-5 and 6-10 could be debatable. I think there is a good argument to put Allen in the top ten and drop out Brown also. Many of Browns accolades were in college but I think he still won 2 NFL championships. I am biased of course on Allen but I think he is the greatest coach to never win a championship and because he never won the big one that's why I had a hard time putting him in the top ten. The Landry /Shula argument is a classic, but I would still put Curly ahead of both of them based on some of the things I have read in the past. I started this wondering if Vermeil made it into the top ten if he won the Bowl this year. I wanted to know where history would place him. If he wins it this year I think he atleast matches Parcells accomplishments and if he goes undefeated and wins the bowl he surpasses Parcells. I am also 2 men short of 25 top coaches of all time. Who else should be mentioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCS:BraveCaringSoul Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 8. Joe Gibbs You blaspheme. 1. Joe Gibbs: The only head coach to win three Superbowls with three different quarterbacks-- now that takes some coaching.. 1a. Lombardi: good coach, but he's no Gibbs. Yes, I'm a "flaming homer"!! Which 'aint a bad drink, assuming you add enough Crusty cough syrup to give it some kick. The rest of your list is ok I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleSteve Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 I would also tend to raise Gibbs a bit higher. If Vermeil is able to go to the SB with three different teams and win it with two of them, he clearly surpasses Parcells and probably Gibbs and a number of others on the list. I think 16-0 is more luck at this point than coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy-the-Greek Posted November 15, 2003 Author Share Posted November 15, 2003 BCS, I tried to make the list as non-biased as I possible could being a diehard skin fan. If I dropped out Brown from the top ten Gibbs would slide up to 7. If we had beat the Raiders and he had won 4 I would put him ahead of Noll but he didn't. I think the top 2 are written in stone and can't be changed. I can see someone arguing to move Lambeau down the list and putting Landry and Shula ahead of him. In the end however I can't see Gibbs being higher then 6th. That Raider superbowl loss is the only thing from keeping him out of the top 5 in my opinion. I also wish he had coached another 5-10 years. How would you rank them? Also Blazers, I think Vermeil would have to win 4 to surpass Gibbs. Remember he won 3 with 3 different qb's. That is an amazing feat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy-the-Greek Posted November 15, 2003 Author Share Posted November 15, 2003 Does anyone know of a web page that has the coaches lifetime record and what years they won there divisions and championships? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yank Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Chuck Noll was 4-0 in SBs in what 6 years? He had alot of talent to work with, true, but the Steelers dominated and he kept that team in the zone. Walsh also was 3-0 in the SB. I don't get Landry and Shula both 2-3 in the SB. They got there 5 times each but they also lost more than they won and they coached a real long time (vice Gibbs and Walsh). So I'd go: 1. Vince Lombardi 2. George Halas 3. Curly Lambeau 4. Paul Brown 5. Chuck Noll 6. Joe Gibbs 7. Bill Walsh 8. Tom Landry 9. Don Shula 10. Bill Parcells Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Another thing to consider with Gibbs, is that his playoff record was phenomenal. Something like 16-3 if my memory serves me correct. Landry and Shula as I recall were barely over .500 in playoff games, compared to Gibbs, although they won a lot of division titles. Gibbs also won 3 Super Bowls, with 3 good QB's, but none were Joe Montana's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rydost Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Ok, I can't believe that Gibbs is not getting enough respect on a Redskins board. Even an unbiased person should put Gibbs higher. The stats speak for themselves: Gibbs - RS 124-60 (.673) PS 16-5 (.761) SB 3-1 (.750) Landry - RS 250-162-6 (.598) PS 20-16 (.556) SB 2-3 (.400) Schula - RS 328-156-6 (.669) PS 19-17 (.528) SB 2-4 (.500) Knoll - RS 193-148-1 (.564) PS 16-8 (.667) SB 4-0 Brown - RS 166-100-6 (.610) PS 4-8 (.334) SB N/A Halas - RS 315-148-31 (.638) PS 6-4 (.600) SB N/A Lambeau RS 227-133-22 (.594) PS 3-2 (.600) SB N/A Not including Lombardi, Gibbs leads in regular season and post season winning percentage and is second only to Knoll on SB percentage and wins. Come on guys. Give the man some respect. He is the only coach to win SuperBowls with 3 different QBs and only had 1 losing season in 12 years. We have had 5 losing seasons in the 10 years since he left. Maybe you are afraid of seeming like a homer, but the way I see it, Gibbs should be #2 (to Lombardi). The only thing he does not have is the longevity of the others, but if you not holding that against Lombardi, you shouldn't hold it against Gibbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rydost Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Oh, by the way....my source for stats: http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/teams.nsf click on the team, then the coach to get the coach's all time stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 I think John Madden is being underrated here for consistently winning. Madden as I recall was one of the few coaches who had over 100 victories within 10 seasons. I also think Gibbs achieved this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yank Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Originally posted by rydost Ok, I can't believe that Gibbs is not getting enough respect on a Redskins board. Even an unbiased person should put Gibbs higher. The stats speak for themselves: Gibbs - RS 124-60 (.673) PS 16-5 (.761) SB 3-1 (.750) Landry - RS 250-162-6 (.598) PS 20-16 (.556) SB 2-3 (.400) Schula - RS 328-156-6 (.669) PS 19-17 (.528) SB 2-4 (.500) Knoll - RS 193-148-1 (.564) PS 16-8 (.667) SB 4-0 Brown - RS 166-100-6 (.610) PS 4-8 (.334) SB N/A Halas - RS 315-148-31 (.638) PS 6-4 (.600) SB N/A Lambeau RS 227-133-22 (.594) PS 3-2 (.600) SB N/A Not including Lombardi, Gibbs leads in regular season and post season winning percentage and is second only to Knoll on SB percentage and wins. Come on guys. Give the man some respect. He is the only coach to win SuperBowls with 3 different QBs and only had 1 losing season in 12 years. We have had 5 losing seasons in the 10 years since he left. Maybe you are afraid of seeming like a homer, but the way I see it, Gibbs should be #2 (to Lombardi). The only thing he does not have is the longevity of the others, but if you not holding that against Lombardi, you shouldn't hold it against Gibbs. Bill Walsh was conspicuously absent by his omission. His postseason record is 10-4 (.714) and his SB is 3-0 Great debate question by the way !! Your data is illuminating. Three of the 4 coaches listed at the top of my previous list (Lombardi, Halas, Brown) were instrumental in the days that the NFL was emerging as a premier sports league in this country. Their contributions to the league have, from a historical viewpoint, transcended the more recent coaching gurus. Not to knock Gibbs because I'd never trade him for another coach, but he had the backing of a billionaire that could stash players for years on the "IR" until they were ready for prime time. When that scenario ended with free agency he was wise to retire. He also had an OL (and Riggins for alot of it) that could control games - two of them were free agents (Jacoby and Bostic) and Donnie Warren was a very late rounder. He had a genius of equal quality in his DC - Ritchie Petitbon. He had a GM of inconsistent results that when his hunches panned out (see OL comment above plus Dexter) the team had spectacular results. I love the guy for sure. But the other top 3 or 4 did it all - GM and coach. Not sure that's fair the include that other stuff in a coaches poll but that probably why they get major props - plus their impact to growing the league in the earlier years. I'd still rate Noll above Gibbs because he was 4-0 in the SB in 6 years - an awsome achievement. Just to get to 4 in 6 years is unparallelled. To win them all is, well, super. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Shula is overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrnewbomb Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 I AGREE WITH YOUR LIST BUT THINK THAT JOE GIBBS SHOULD BE NUMBER 5. ALSO THINK DICK VERMEIL SHOULD BE IN THERE SOMEWHRER IF HE GOES TO THE SUPER BOWL THIS YEAR. I THINK JIMMY JOHNSON SHOULD BE TAKEN OUT OF THE TOP WHATEVER BECAUSE HE WAS NOT THAT GOOD AND I HATE HIM!!!!!!!!!:puke: :hammer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Shula is the ONLY coach to have a team go undefeated. Until someone else does it, he's not overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montilar Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 something that might be interesting to find out. and might be a bit relevant here. What was the records of the coaches on that list that were coaching in the strike games? Gibbs was perfect, with 100% scabs. And the Dallas game, Dallas had A LOT of players cross the licket line, including if memory serves, Danny White, and 3 of 4 starting DLmen. What was Knolls record with the scabs, or Landry's? Or Vermiels? Those three games showed how good a coach Gibbs was. I couldn't put Knoll up there above gibbs. sure he won more super bowls. but he did it really based on one team. Bradshaw, Swann, Franco harris, and essentually the same team. Without those players did he go back? Gibbs went back with essentually different teams. sure some players like Darrell green were constants. But Lachey replaced Jacoby, R. C. Thielemann wasn't at guard for all three super bowls, Grimm wasn't either, Starke wasn't, Riggons was in two of the four, Timmy smith and byner were at Rb in the other two, the Dl switched around, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtandler Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 As long as you're going back to guys like Lambeau and, for that matter, Halas, don't over look the Redskins' other Hall of Fame coach, Ray Flaherty. In seven seasons with the Skins, he went 54-21-3, a .712 winning percentage. The Redskins won the NFL title twice under Flaherty, in their first season in DC in 1937 and again in '42. The latter title was one of the greatest upsets in league history as the Skins stunned to unbeaten and supposedly unbeatable Bears. He's not a top 10 guy, but he certainly belongs in the conversation of coaches in that second tier, with the likes of Flores, Stram, and Ewbanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoDak Cowboy Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Wow. Great thread. Alot of interesting takes from everone, on why someone should be either higher or lower. Can't remember who posted it, but they had the coach of my beloved Cowboys way down the list. Either 8th or 9th. Whew!! Not to sound too much like a homer, but that is way too low. IMO, Landry at the very least is top five. And maybe top two or three. After all, he did go to five super bowls. And that isn't even his biggest accomplishment. Twenty straight winning seasons. Wow! Think about that. Twenty straight winning seasons. Boggles the mind. Other coaches might take their teams to five super bowls. But one thing is certain. No coach will EVER have a stretch of winning like that again. Coach Gibbs winning three different super bowls with three different starting QB's is quite impressive. But IMO, it doesn't measure up to those twenty seasons. Just for arguments sake, let's say Parcells wins another super bowl. Then there would be two coaches with Gibbs' claim to fame. (Simms and Hostetler) I realize I will not change anyones opinion. Not my intention. Just my two pennies.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WallyG3 Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Walsh has to be higher. How many of his disciples and even their disciples are now head coaches. He revolutionized NFL offences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC4 Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Gibbs is NO 1 in MY book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisbob74 Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 I also think Shula is overrated, ok, he had an undeafeated team but in the mid to late 80's/early 90's he had Marino and the Marks brothers and done little with them, he made poor assistant coaching appointments and kept his job because of his past. He coached to break the record, a bit like Smith is playing with us now to break the record. Don't get me wrong, he's a top 10 coach, but give me Gibbs any day. Imagine Gibbs coaching a Dan Marino....scary!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway66 Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Parcells up to #2.. he is amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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