Culliver Released

[ThomasRoane]

How much savings on the salary cap?  My ideal solution would be to bring him back as a future FS. 

[Wellred93]

Where does this leave our cap space?

[CommDownMan]

I think we could release Roberts right now too, but we'd save $1 million more if we cut him after June 1st.

 

We'd have that mill on next year when we'll need it more I'd guess (unless so Reed/Cousins news is on the way).

 

Good luck to Culliver.  I didn't know much about him when we signed him and I don't feel like I know much better now.  Once Norman was signed, I was still leary about cutting him, but Fuller (and Craven to a degree), make this move one I expected to see at this point.

Where does this leave our cap space?

 

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/washington-redskins/

 

Takes 5.5 mill off this year.  After Norman I think we were at about 3-4 mill.  Draft picks will add 3ish once signed...so give or take 6 mill I believe.

 

edit:  from the link

Team Cap Space: $4,282,340 that is with Culliver and picks included.  Picks are listed as 450K each right now, so all under the 51 used to calc cap.  Doc and Cravens will probably crack top 51, not sure on others.  Call it 9 mill-ish.

[DC9]

Had honestly hoped for more from him.

 

Shame about the injury, but that's the business.  I wish him well.

 

Like we (ahem... some of us) talked about in the FA thread, as soon as Norman signed, you knew two things were going to happen.

 

1)  Cully had to go

 

2)  We had to take a WR in the 1st or 2nd round

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

In addition to the likely release of Roberts.  Perry Riley is probably on the chopping block.  With the draft of Su'a Cravens, that removes the likelihood of guys like Riley, Foster, Daniels, Speights, etc contributing in Nickel/Dime packages.  Riley hasn't shown the ability to be a Mike, call out plays and make audibles like Compton.  So I'm ruling him out of that role.

 

So Riley, Foster, Daniels, and Speights will be competing for smaller snap totals in base packages (3-4 or 4-3).  Riley's 5 mil cap hit is a lot for reduced snap loads.  The other guys could develop into something more, but Riley is who he is at this point.  Cutting him would save 4 million.

[CommDownMan]

In addition to the likely release of Roberts.  Perry Riley is probably on the chopping block.  With the draft of Su'a Cravens, that removes the likelihood of guys like Riley, Foster, Daniels, Speights, etc contributing in Nickel/Dime packages.  Riley hasn't shown the ability to be a Mike, call out plays and make audibles like Compton.  So I'm ruling him out of that role.

 

So Riley, Foster, Daniels, and Speights will be competing for smaller snap totals in base packages (3-4 or 4-3).  Riley's 5 mil cap hit is a lot for reduced snap loads.  The other guys could develop into something more, but Riley is who he is at this point.  Cutting him would save 4 million.

 

With Doctson, Roberts is definite (although I think it was before).  Perry, I'm thinking will play at least until camp cuts.  If there is an injury to Compton/Foster we don't have someone that has proven they can step in and be ready to go.  If Daniels/Spaight/Hayward/someone I'm forgetting I think, step up in training camp then I think Perry could go.  If the immediate need for money isn't there, then it's not a position that has definitive depth to replace like Cully and Roberts.  In that case, there's nothing wrong with the wait and see approach.

[SkinsGuy]

How much savings on the salary cap?  My ideal solution would be to bring him back as a future FS. 

 

$5.5 million since it is a pre-June 1st cut.

 

If they had waited till after June 1st, the savings would've been $8 million.

 

But I guess GMSM wanted to release him now. Make the other DBs that will take his spot the focus now.

[Renegade7]

This decision was likely made before the draft.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

$5.5 million since it is a pre-June 1st cut.

If they had waited till after June 1st, the savings would've been $8 million.

But I guess GMSM wanted to release him now. Make the other DBs that will take his spot the focus now.

Cant you release somebody now and designate it as a June 1 cut even if not technically after June 1?

I thought that was the rule

Roberts, Riley and Garcon...y'all boys are next...

[DJD2]

$5.5 million since it is a pre-June 1st cut.

 

If they had waited till after June 1st, the savings would've been $8 million.

 

But I guess GMSM wanted to release him now. Make the other DBs that will take his spot the focus now.

 

You always see teams designate cuts as post June 1 in order to save add'l cap space, even though they occur prior to June 1. Anyone have an idea if that was not possible here (i.e. maybe because of injury ??). Seems weird for the team to not take full advantage.

[CommDownMan]

$5.5 million since it is a pre-June 1st cut.

 

If they had waited till after June 1st, the savings would've been $8 million.

 

But I guess GMSM wanted to release him now. Make the other DBs that will take his spot the focus now.

 

With the ability to roll over the cap, does it make much difference?

 

Pre-June 1 we save 5.5 mill and no affect to cap next year.

 

Post-June 1 we save 8 mill and 2.5 mill pushed into next year.  (5.5 net)

 

If we did post June 1 and saved more this year, had an extra 2.5 mill to roll over, it balances out, right?  You couldn't always roll over the cap (if I remember correctly), so does this really matter much at this point?  Am I missing something?

[DJD2]

With the ability to roll over the cap, does it make much difference?

 

Pre-June 1 we save 5.5 mill and no affect to cap next year.

 

Post-June 1 we save 8 mill and 2.5 mill pushed into next year.  (5.5 net)

 

If we did post June 1 and saved more this year, had an extra 2.5 mill to roll over, it balances out, right?  You couldn't always roll over the cap (if I remember correctly), so does this really matter much at this point?  Am I missing something?

 

Ahhh

Makes sense

Didn't realize all you were doing was pushing money in to next year by designating it as post June 1.

I'd agree to take the medicine now.

[arftech]

Cant you release somebody now and designate it as a June 1 cut even if not technically after June 1?

I thought that was the rule

Roberts, Riley and Garcon...y'all boys are next...

GMSM is on record saying Garcon is not going anywhere this year.  He's said that several times and I believe him.

 

Hail Em Up!

[CommDownMan]

Cant you release somebody now and designate it as a June 1 cut even if not technically after June 1?

I thought that was the rule

Roberts, Riley and Garcon...y'all boys are next...

 

http://overthecap.com/explaining-the-june-1st-designation/

 

 

I think where many people get confused, though, is when they hear that “player x” could be designated a June 1 cut and immediately jump to conclusions that it means a spending spree in March. The league allows each team to designate up to two players per year as a June 1 cut for cap purposes prior to June 1. It’s the one concession that was given to the players as it allows a player to be cut in March and have time to explore free agency but have his cap hit spread out over two seasons, thus creating more cap space in the current year.   The issue though is the mechanism by which this works.

 

 

 

To illustrate this we see how the Kansas City Chiefs gave Steve Breaston a $5 million dollar signing bonus in 2011, which was accounted as $1 million in yearly expenses over the course of his 5 year contract. When he was released just the other day he had only completed 2 years of his 5 year contract meaning the Chiefs salary cap had only accounted for $2 million of the $5 million paid in 2011. The balance of $3 million dollars immediately accelerates onto the Chiefs 2013 salary cap.

 

After June 1 the NFL changes the way the acceleration works.  After June 1^st only the current years expense remains on the books after the player is released. The balance accelerates onto the following years salary cap. So in Breastons case had the Chiefs waited until June 1^st to release him his salary cap charge in 2013 would have been $1 million and in 2014 he still would be on the books at $2 million dollars.

 

Lot more info in the link above if anyone cares.

 

Basically, it is save 2.5 mill this year or save 2.5 mill next year.  As you read the entire piece, the June 1 designation gives teams that are cap strapped a way to break up the cash.  Having the space to eat all the money give us more in the future and means...wait for it...WE ARE NOT IN CAP HELL

[Momma There Goes That Man]

This was a big concern of mine that we wouldn't cut Culliver because of some dumb loyalty notion. I wanted him gone before we even signed Norman.

This makes me further believe that maybe Scot actually does know what he's doing

[goskins10]

I was hoping they would look at him as S. He has played it before and he could fill a hybrid FS/Slot CB role. But I can definitely see letting him go, especially after drafting Fuller. I said as much right after the pick.

 

I liked Culliver. It's really unfortunate he got injured. He tried to play but could not go. I hope this does not tarnish Scot's image with players. He had said at one time they would honor the contract as is and not use the opt-out clause.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

GMSM is on record saying Garcon is not going anywhere this year. He's said that several times and I believe him.

Hail Em Up!

Garcon probably stays but I think that's silly. His production and value could be easily replaced IMO at a fraction of His high salary that could be used toward other players that are going to need it

[SkinsGuy]

Cant you release somebody now and designate it as a June 1 cut even if not technically after June 1?

I thought that was the rule

Roberts, Riley and Garcon...y'all boys are next...

 

 

You always see teams designate cuts as post June 1 in order to save add'l cap space, even though they occur prior to June 1. Anyone have an idea if that was not possible here (i.e. maybe because of injury ??). Seems weird for the team to not take full advantage.

 

 

jsharrin55 explained it.

 

I guess they made the cut now so it would be completely off their books next year.

[TheGreek1973]

$5.5 million since it is a pre-June 1st cut.

 

If they had waited till after June 1st, the savings would've been $8 million.

 

But I guess GMSM wanted to release him now. Make the other DBs that will take his spot the focus now.

Man, this doesn't make much sense, we are not talking a few dollars here, but 2.5 million.  That is a lot of cap space wasted, I wonder why he did that, unless there is a push to bring him back at a lower salary.

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

Why would he come back here? He probably still thinks he can start somewhere. 

Personally, I think you need 3 starting outside corners in today's NFL. Its a luxury but winning team's luxury, especially if you can have 1 or 2 pieces under rookie contract control (like Bree). We are 1 injury away from trotting Blackmon out there for over 90% of the D snaps again. If Bree or Norman miss any significant time, Barry is going to be handcuffed and have to call plays to protect the secondary. 

 

To answer your question of why he may consider coming back - relationships and money. Scot said the door is open for his return, and if teams stay away from him bc of injury or their own cap tightness, we may have the best $ offer out there. 

 

A man can hope. 

[SkinsGuy]

Man, this doesn't make much sense, we are not talking a few dollars here, but 2.5 million.  That is a lot of cap space wasted, I wonder why he did that, unless there is a push to bring him back at a lower salary.

 

It was explained earlier.

 

Designating him a post-June 1st cut would just put off that $2.5 million to next season.

 

Scott evidently wants to clear it off the books now.

[pcbothwel]

Exactly. His signing Bonus is 1.25M each of the next three years (3.75M Total) and his cap number is 9.25M each of the next 3 years. So we have two scenarios:

 

1) Pre June Cut

- Eat all 3.75M now (Net 5.5M savings) and be off the hook completely.

 

2) Post June Cut:

- Take 1.25M hit this year (Net 8M savings) and another 2.5M next year.

 

With the amount of cap space we need next year, Scenario 1 is the obvious choice

[TheGreek1973]

Exactly. His signing Bonus is 1.25M each of the next three years (3.75M Total) and his cap number is 9.25M each of the next 3 years. So we have two scenarios:

 

1) Pre June Cut

- Eat all 3.75M now (Net 5.5M savings) and be off the hook completely.

 

2) Post June Cut:

- Take 1.25M hit this year (Net 8M savings) and another 2.5M next year.

 

With the amount of cap space we need next year, Scenario 1 is the obvious choice

Now I get it.  yea very smart move, especially since Norman's CAP hit next year is 18 million.

[SkinsGuy]

Now I get it.  yea very smart move, especially since Norman's CAP hit next year is 18 million.

 

Yep.

 

Not to mention signing Cousins, Reed, Gallette (if they are happy with him), the fate of Garcon and DJAX after this season, etc.

 

Gonna cost some money.

 

Also shows why Scott loaded up on 2017 draft picks this weekend. Not only because it is supposed to be a strong draft, but because this allows them to let go next year higher priced players they don't want to keep and backload the team with a lot of talent from the 2017 draft.

 

Always thinking that GM.

[CommDownMan]

Looking at the cap numbers for next year (listed as ~39 mill if you click on the 2017 tab)

 

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/washington-redskins/

 

Some rough estimates:

Cousins (~20 mill per)  http://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/ (Top 5 have SB rings)

Reed (~10 mill per) http://overthecap.com/position/tight-end/

Baker (~5 mill per) http://overthecap.com/position/3-4-defensive-tackle/(This puts him as highest paid, not sure he goes that much)

Gillette (~10-12 mill per?) Kerrigan at 11 and I have a feeling he'd want similar if he does well. http://overthecap.com/position/3-4-outside-linebacker/

 

That adds ~45-47 million to keep the 4 (they can reduce for next year, but more or less that's the math).

 

Without bumps in play level, I think Paea (3.3 savings), Licht (3.5) and Lauvao (4 mill) will be likely cuts.  Possibly add Hall (4.25 mill).  Perry next year if it doesn't happen this year.  Maybe a smaller Garcon contract (~5 mill per?)  I know some find him expendable, but Scot like's what he brings and I expect a vet in the group.

 

Even without Hall it's doable and leds to another boring FA offseason (which you should all expect) and we build through the draft and 9 picks.  (or 10 since hopefully conditions weren't met for Carrier...).