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Tesla Model 3 Release


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does the oil industry get subsidies? did the government give the auto industry a ton of money to help keep it afloat during a tough time? should the government invest in an industry to promote overall scientific/technological progress?

which industries are you okay with receiving free lunches?

 

are you disputing the subsidies and road taxes would need changing if half the cars were electric?

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because the govt and funding, same reason they put out a few battery swap locations.....$$$$$

if so we would need to reduce subsidies and change road use taxes.....no free lunch

From what I've read, the company currently operates at an loss. Tesla nearly went under and the government stepped in and saved them which was a good move in my opinion.

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Of course transportation taxes would have to change

I am not sure why that is a bad thing

exactly. "but the subsidies" argument doesn't work when your pet industry has received its own subsidies for year.

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exactly. "but the subsidies" argument doesn't work when your pet industry has received its own subsidies for year.

 

it most certainly does if you compare subsidies ....I would not object to equality

 

but here is a downer while we wait for reality to intrude

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/31/tesla-s-model-3-could-destroy-elon-musk-s-company.html?via=twitter_page

 

This cynically exploitative strategy may come as a surprise to anyone who has bought into Tesla's remarkably durable media halo, but behind the “save the world” headlines and unabashed Elon Musk worship there have long been signs that Tesla is not living up to its “save the world” image.

The company has failed to deliver on some of its biggest promises, such as the promise that all Tesla Superchargers would be solar-powered and zero-emission net energy generators. Behind the gushing praise for the Model S (which is undoubtedly an impressive car in many respects), massive quality problems lurk. Surveys and feedback at forums show that the majority of Model S drive units have already needed to be replaced, and some like Edmunds.com have had to replace the drive unit on their Model S multiple times. Problems with sunroofs, door handles, window seals, and other issues fill Tesla owner forums but go largely unreported by the fawning press corps. Fans have even begun generating delivery checklists that are more extensive than those done at the quality-control phase in traditional car factories, so buyers of Tesla’s six-figure luxury cars can do the quality assurance that Tesla apparently can not.

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Luxury car brands have had middling reliability so it's nothing new. People who buy that stuff don't care, it's about being able to show you own that brand. The value shopper is going to be a different story.

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Luxury car brands have had middling reliability so it's nothing new. People who buy that stuff don't care, it's about being able to show you own that brand. The value shopper is going to be a different story.

Not all people. In my experience, there is a large number of people who own luxury cars but can't afford to fix or maintain them. I see these cars when they are 5-10 years old, sometimes 2nd owner. Those are the ones who buy them as a status symbol because they can't buy them new. I regularly talk to people who bought a 3 series BMW 2nd hand and can't pay the $500 it costs to get their drivers door to open correctly.

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and early adopters are more willing to bear the burden of lower reliability. you can't throw innovation on the junk heap because it isn't perfect (or even as perfect as a product with a century of tinkering to get things right). i'm not jumping in line for a T3 and wouldn't spend $80k on a car for a TS, but i'm going to be cheering tesla on from the sidelines and enjoying the general progression of mankind from cavemen to enlightened beings.

if people want to point and laugh from the sidelines, i guess that's their prerogative. at some point, though, you become the old crazy guy shaking his fist at the sky while you cling to the past. if you wait long enough, you might even become a retro hipster driving around your gasonline powered car.

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I just don't see why driving a gas powered car is a negative.

it isn't now. as things improve in the electronic car world (most specifically battery disposal/recycling and infrastructure of charging stations) and people can reasonably move to e-cars without being inconvenienced, removing gas powered cars will remove (or significantly diminish) a source of pollution from the planet. lots of environmental benefits to not using oil and gas as much.

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it isn't now. as things improve in the electronic car world (most specifically battery disposal/recycling and infrastructure of charging stations) and people can reasonably move to e-cars without being inconvenienced, removing gas powered cars will remove (or significantly diminish) a source of pollution from the planet. lots of environmental benefits to not using oil and gas as much.

Does switching from gas to electric cars eliminate or significantly cut down on pollution or does it just shift it elsewhere? Serious question.

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Does switching from gas to electric cars eliminate or significantly cut down on pollution or does it just shift it elsewhere? Serious question.

battery technology and recycling has to improve. as more and more players get into the field, improvements to batteries should logically follow. our current cars are much more efficient than those from the 60's.

same thing with the recharging stations. musk wants them to be solar eventually. they are not now. that would be a huge improvement to the footprint of an e-car.

again, just because this has not sprung out of musk's gigafactory fully developed and perfectly carbon neutral doesn't mean we need to scuttle the project (e-cars in general) altogether.

i think it is worth trying.

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battery technology and recycling has to improve. as more and more players get into the field, improvements to batteries should logically follow. our current cars are much more efficient than those from the 60's.

same thing with the recharging stations. musk wants them to be solar eventually. they are not now. that would be a huge improvement to the footprint of an e-car.

again, just because this has not sprung out of musk's gigafactory fully developed and perfectly carbon neutral doesn't mean we need to scuttle the project (e-cars in general) altogether.

i think it is worth trying.

I don't believe that solar technology (or wind for that matter) is efficient enough at this point to sustain a large scale shift to electric cars. Not that it isn't worth pursuing, the technology just isn't there at this time.

Right now, gasoline (or diesel) engines are the most efficient on a large scale basis. They too, will continue to be more efficient as technology increases and I don't think that is worth discounting even in the presence of all electric technology.

Again, I'm interested. I'm just not screaming rainbows and unicorns about Tesla.

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I don't believe that solar technology (or wind for that matter) is efficient enough at this point to sustain a large scale shift to electric cars. Not that it isn't worth pursuing, the technology just isn't there at this time.

Right now, gasoline (or diesel) engines are the most efficient on a large scale basis. They too, will continue to be more efficient as technology increases and I don't think that is worth discounting even in the presence of all electric technology.

Again, I'm interested. I'm just not screaming rainbows and unicorns about Tesla.

i largely agree, though i suspect i'm more optimistic about it than you are (not a dig at you). maybe e-cars are not the end game, but the pursuit of e-cars could develop the technology needed to make that next jump... maybe even something revolutionary with oil-based cars. it's a little like the moon shot and everything that developed from the lunar program's technology.

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I don't see EV's as revolutionary , fuel cell tech may change that as the battery becomes less critical

 

nothing wrong with different efforts as long as you don't overburden.

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Someone is thinking about job security here. I don't blame you bro. 

 

Solar power coupled with electric would work just fine...I think ???

 

Being independent from oil would have probably saved many lives. That's another topic however. 

 

Insurance companies, Police, and tin foil folks are probably all against Autonomous vehicles. I have been looking forward to it for many years. I saw a clip about them years ago where they were driving around a rode track. Six or seven cars all going about 70 MPH, maybe 3 feet away from each other. Back then the technology had not reached the point of not having a  controlled environment. 

 

I am sure plenty of people really would love to see this happen. 

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The important thing Tesla has done is push Chevy, Ford, Nissan, Honda start to roll out EV's or EV hybrids

 

You can get a plug in Accord, get a Volt that will get you 51 EV miles, the Nissan Leaf and soon you will have the Bolt, which will be a competitor to the Tesla Model 3.

 

The innovation and risk Musk has taken with Tesla has pushed all of the other major auto makers to jump into the EV pool.

 

This is good thing for everyone. 

 

But man, I do suggest everyone at least test drive a Tesla. It is a fun drive. 

Edited by SkinsHokieFan
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We could have got off ME oil long ago, yet we would still be involved in ME wars.

 

No.

 

There is a reason we don't send 200k ground troops into central Africa. Dick Cheney wouldn't make money there :)

 

EV subsidies have been in the billions? Maybe? 

 

Global fossil fuel subsidies are 5.3 trillion, with a T, per year according to the IMF

 

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2015/NEW070215A.htm

 

EV subsidies are maybe 10 billion a year (depending on what report you read)?

 

And considering the horrible negative externalities of oil in general, EV subsidies are a drop in the bucket for a cool technology. 

 

The good news is the Model 3 already has surpassed over 200k in deposits

 

http://evannex.com/blogs/news/114987333-tesla-model-3-wall-street-whispers-spy-photos-and-undercover-video

Edited by SkinsHokieFan
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