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Nothing about the Casino plot line is worse than teddy bears capturing Jedi Master Luke Skywalker and the whole C3po is their god bull****. Or the waste of time in ESB with the Falcon landing on the asteroid and being inside a moon worm. Or the Raccor escape in TFA. 
 

They are all pointless wastes of time that add nothing to the story. 

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32 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

Nothing about the Casino plot line is worse than teddy bears capturing Jedi Master Luke Skywalker and the whole C3po is their god bull****. Or the waste of time in ESB with the Falcon landing on the asteroid and being inside a moon worm. Or the Raccor escape in TFA. 
 

They are all pointless wastes of time that add nothing to the story. 

 

Han: "Come on, Chewie. Let's see if we can get closer to one of those asteroids."

 

Leia and 3PO: "CLOSER?"

 

Hardly a waste of time. Builds up the already enormous tension from the chase through the asteroid field. Plus once on the asteroid,

you've got the Minocs, and a little alone time for Han and Leia.

 

Not a good idea to pick on ESB. That's one battle you can't win.  

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Mournblade said:

 

Han: "Come on, Chewie. Let's see if we can get closer to one of those asteroids."

 

Leia and 3PO: "CLOSER?"

 

Hardly a waste of time. Builds up the already enormous tension from the chase through the asteroid field. Plus once on the asteroid,

you've got the Minocs, and a little alone time for Han and Leia.

 

Not a good idea to pick on ESB. That's one battle you can't win.  

 

 


It’s pretty pointless. The movie overall and the individual characters suffer nothing if it’s entirely taken out 

Edited by Momma There Goes That Man
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On 12/18/2019 at 1:46 PM, Bacon said:

Unpopular opinion time:

 

Rogue One was so boring that I could hardly stay awake. Cardboard characters that were never properly developed, a passive, boring protagonist (what was her name?) that just has things happen to her, an endlessly protracted plot that only kept me slightly engaged because I knew Vader was going to show up eventually, forced humor and references that fail to land, and it's straight up ugly too. It's one of those dark, muddy movies with the overused blue/beige color palatte that's supposed to look gritty and serious and in the end it's just a dreary viewing experience. 

 

I'm not surprised that it's the diehard Star Wars nerd favorite from Disney though. The only risk it takes with the franchise is being more dour than usual. Plus, Vader is a badass for a few minutes, which was like a tiny beam of light in a deep, dark well. Even I can admit that ending makes it worth a rental. 

 

And, of course, Solo was even worse. Can't wait until they start churning out side movies with no meaningful stakes every year. 

 

I agree on Rogue One.  The only characters I really cared about it was that blind pseudo Jedi guy and his buddy.  Their motivations for opposing the Empire were very clear.  For the other characters, everything was muddled.

 

Disagree on Solo.  It was the best of the bunch in my opinion. 

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3 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:


It’s pretty pointless. The movie overall and the individual characters suffer nothing if it’s entirely taken out 

 

Although it was extremely campy and had some of the worst dialog in the entire movie/series, the relationship between Han and Leia needed time to develop. 

 

Going directly from Hoth, in which they are entirely at odds with each other, the to the Cloud City where they are immediately betrayed, does not line up the scene where  Leia has a "last chance" to tell Han before he's frozen in carbonite. 

 

Basically, they had to be forced through circumstance to work closely and and face danger together with one another. 

 

Compared to The Clone Wars, where there is zero relationship development, ESB makes look Lucas look like Ovid.

 

Also, "Apology accepted, Captain Neida", one of the best one-liners the series.

 

 

Edited by DCSaints_fan
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Well...it was fine. It was safe. It was expected. Visually it was pretty good but nothing special imo. The story like I said was pretty safe. I was fine with the direction it went overall. Lots of fan service. Still better than any of the prequels. Don’t get me wrong, I did like it a lot. But it should have been so much more if they had the freedom to take risks but they simply didn’t.  It’s held hostage by the past and a fear to do anything different for reasons I think we all know. 

 

i hope you TLJ haters are happy. We could have had something fresh, bold, and interesting. Instead we got a by the numbers Star Wars clinging to the past and afraid of the status quo . I think they tiptoed up to the line where things could have gotten really fun and then stopped. They did this several times. 
 

I do love Rey and I love Kylo. They are my favorite characters in the series along with Luke and I think they are the best written too, especially Kylo. 
 

I don’t think it really retcons as much from TLJ as people think. I think the TLJ flows pretty well into this and the decisions made still make sense with everything that happened in TLJ. 

Edited by Momma There Goes That Man
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6 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

Nothing about the Casino plot line is worse than teddy bears capturing Jedi Master Luke Skywalker and the whole C3po is their god bull****. Or the waste of time in ESB with the Falcon landing on the asteroid and being inside a moon worm. Or the Raccor escape in TFA. 
 

They are all pointless wastes of time that add nothing to the story. 

 

You are dead to me for the next few minutes. The Casino plot line was the worst of everything you mentioned and it's not close. 

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Much like others have said so far, it was fine.  The biggest weakness IMO is that it had to spend so much time & energy on "course correcting" certain characters and plot points from TLJ that despite being over 2 hours, it felt rushed in a lot of aspects.  

 

At this point I really wish JJ Abrams, despite his own flaws tackling the material, could have just been the director of the entire trilogy.  As 3 stand alone movies I think episodes 7-9 are fun and entertaining in their own ways, however the problem lies in watching them collectively as a trilogy/saga.  It just doesn't work as a coherent piece. 

 

I can elaborate tomorrow, but I am tired, and I sort of want to wait for more people to chime in as well.

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930 showing on West Coast.  I avoided all spoilers and others opinion. Except the first 15 minutes I loved it.  The first 15 minutes had me thinking, "this is going to be Episode 8 level, lame" and then from a certain act (15 min or so) it just got rolling and became a Star Wars movie.  

 

Jedi vs. Sith, space battles, the Force... well done and tied the OT very well.  If I think hard I can probably think of plot holes... one thing particular just annoys me about the "First Order"... but it was good. 

 

It is hard to beat Episodes IV and V as far as plot, pacing, story and adventure movie --- but those benefit from a simpler set or preconceived rules and notions.  The more episodes you make the more rules and boundaries are introduced.  This was more on their level than I, VIII and VI.  

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5 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

The biggest weakness IMO is that it had to spend so much time & energy on "course correcting" certain characters and plot points from TLJ that despite being over 2 hours, it felt rushed in a lot of aspects.  


how did it do this? 

 

5 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

As 3 stand alone movies I think episodes 7-9 are fun and entertaining in their own ways, however the problem lies in watching them collectively as a trilogy/saga.  It just doesn't work as a coherent piece. 


I think it works as a trilogy really well. It doesn’t feel jarring going from 1 to the other and it tells the coherent story of Ben Solo and Rey 

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2 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:


how did it do this? 

 


I think it works as a trilogy really well. It doesn’t feel jarring going from 1 to the other and it tells the coherent story of Ben Solo and Rey 

 

Without going into details if you just think big picture thematically, the two big themes from TLJ were let go of the past and heroes/greatness can come from anywhere.  This movie took those two themes and said shove it.

 

(And then you can't do that without having "course correct" story wise from the last movie, and then they also have issues in terms of fitting together.)

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2 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:


how did it do this? 

 


I think it works as a trilogy really well. It doesn’t feel jarring going from 1 to the other and it tells the coherent story of Ben Solo and Rey 

 

Well for one, the Luke Skywalker we learned about in TLJ was basically erased with 1 single line of dialog in ROS and then just kind of moved on from like his entire demeanor and reasoning for everything he did and said in TLJ was rendered meaningless.  Which in theory I am okay with because I felt the Luke character in ROS is a more accurate reflection of what the character is at heart, it just came off a little weird the way it went down (the transition back to OT Luke).

 

Also, I think the Snoke explanation was downright absurd and for me it questions why there ever was a Snoke in the first place when it seems like The Emperor could have basically been in TLJ in Snoke's place to begin with.

 

Without getting into too many spoilers just yet, when I say "course correcting" what I also mean is that a good handful of ROS plot and story telling felt a bit jettisoned as if JJ Abrams was saying "had I been the director of TLJ, this is what I would have done different in order to setup ROS, oh but we also have to make ROS at the same time, so lets jam it all into this movie"

 

This one is a much more minor nitpick but I was a bit shocked they actually said The Emperor by name in the opening text scroll.  I totally get that because the trailer features his laugh at the end everyone assumes he is going to show up at some point, but bringing back Palpatine seemed like it should have been some huge unveiling but when you are told right up front that he is there it kind of took some anticipation away.  Why not just say "A voice from the past calling out to Kylo Ren" and keep it a bit more of a mystery?

Edited by NoCalMike
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56 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Without going into details if you just think big picture thematically, the two big themes from TLJ were let go of the past and heroes/greatness can come from anywhere.  This movie took those two themes and said shove it.

 

(And then you can't do that without having "course correct" story wise from the last movie, and then they also have issues in terms of fitting together.)

 

But the idea from TLJ is to let go of the past (which from a story and character structure on a meta level of Star Wars, it does) but we knew even in TLJ that Kylo was struggling with doing this. He couldn't kill his mother and was torn in half by killing his father. He tried to let go but couldn't. Same with Rey. She was hung up on her abandonment and parents and even after being encouraged by Kylo was unable to let go of the resistance and the Jedi. 

 

Which works pretty well in ROS where neither are able to escape their past and are forced to confront it.

 

Spoiler

Rey is ultimately able to overcome her own past by denying the dark side but still embraces the past with her choosing her own identity and choosing to be a Skywalker after her mentors. 

 

Edited by Momma There Goes That Man
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38 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Well for one, the Luke Skywalker we learned about in TLJ was basically erased with 1 single line of dialog in ROS and then just kind of moved on from like his entire demeanor and reasoning for everything he did and said in TLJ was rendered meaningless.  Which in theory I am okay with because I felt the Luke character in ROS is a more accurate reflection of what the character is at heart, it just came off a little weird the way it went down (the transition back to OT Luke).

 

I don't see how that's the case. Luke acts this way in TLJ after listening to Yoda. He acknowledges and accepts his failure and his fear as part of the teaching process that can be passed down which is why he returned at the end to save his friends. This was simply a continuation of the end of TLJ

 

39 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Also, I think the Snoke explanation was downright absurd and for me it questions why there ever was a Snoke in the first place when it seems like The Emperor could have basically been in TLJ in Snoke's place to begin with.

 

Spoiler

He is alive but not in a living form. That is why he is hooked up to that apparatus that entire time. he can't leave that area which is why he had to create Snoke which was essentially a clone/husk that he could control. He doesn't return to living form and actually walk on his own until he absorbs Kylo and Rey's energy. It makes complete sense with the questions surrounding Snoke. It may even have been part of his training of Kylo to strike down his master Snoke all along which is why at that moment he was ready to reveal himself to the galaxy and beckon Kylo to return to him. 

 

43 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

This one is a much more minor nitpick but I was a bit shocked they actually said The Emperor by name in the opening text scroll.  I totally get that because the trailer features his laugh at the end everyone assumes he is going to show up at some point, but bringing back Palpatine seemed like it should have been some huge unveiling but when you are told right up front that he is there it kind of took some anticipation away.  Why not just say "A voice from the past calling out to Kylo Ren" and keep it a bit more of a mystery?

 

I agree with this. 

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3 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:


how did it do this? 

 


I think it works as a trilogy really well. It doesn’t feel jarring going from 1 to the other and it tells the coherent story of Ben Solo and Rey 

I think their story arc was the only planned thing in the entire trilogy.  

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12 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

i hope you TLJ haters are happy. We could have had something fresh, bold, and interesting. Instead we got a by the numbers Star Wars clinging to the past and afraid of the status quo . I think they tiptoed up to the line where things could have gotten really fun and then stopped. They did this several times. 

 

This is what happens when a huge behemoth publicly-traded company pays $4 billion for a property.  They have to play it safe.  

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I liked it way more than I thought I would. Went in with low expectations. It was entertaining as hell in my opinion. Some plot holes but somewhat fixed the Mary Sue Rey flaws. I really disliked her until this one. 
 

They need to end all of these characters going forward. No more side stand alone movies set in this timeline. What are we going to get out of the Obi-wan on Tatooine spin off they are making?

 

I want to see some old republic stories. That’s where Rian Johnson would have been good. TLJ as a stand alone would be a really good movie but can’t give the finger to what preceded it and what’s coming next when you are the caretaker for a single installment. JJ cleaned it up pretty well.  Kind of like the South Park episode when they bring him in to fix the national anthem. 😂

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1 hour ago, SoCalSkins said:

I liked it way more than I thought I would. Went in with low expectations. It was entertaining as hell in my opinion. Some plot holes but somewhat fixed the Mary Sue Rey flaws. I really disliked her until this one. 

 

It was definitely entertaining and had some of those wow/ unforgettable "moments" namely 

 

Spoiler

Kylo throwing his lightsaber away and coming back to the light and Rey giving Kylo the lightsaber through the force for his fight against the Knights of Ren. 


But every time they had a chance to do something bold or challenge the characters or chart something truly unexpected they walked it back like 

 

Spoiler

Rey giving in to her darkness and rage and accidentally killing Chewie.

 

Rey killing Kylo.

 

Rey becoming a Sith.

 

Kylo living in the end and Rey dying. 

 

C3PO having his memory wiped. 

 

which were all disappointing though I am ok with them walking back Kylo because it led to his redemption and impacted Rey's story too. 

 

 

Edited by Momma There Goes That Man
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2 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

But the idea from TLJ is to let go of the past (which from a story and character structure on a meta level of Star Wars, it does) but we knew even in TLJ that Kylo was struggling with doing this. He couldn't kill his mother and was torn in half by killing his father. He tried to let go but couldn't. Same with Rey. She was hung up on her abandonment and parents and even after being encouraged by Kylo was unable to let go of the resistance and the Jedi. 

 

Which works pretty well in ROS where neither are able to escape their past and are forced to confront it.

 

 

Only a sociopath would consider killing ones parents part of letting go of the past or that feeling bad about killing ones parents is an indication that you can't let go of the past.

 

Nobody considered those things to be part of the letting go of the past narrative from TLJ. 

 

Those parts are to suggest that's he's still redeemable.

 

And she doesn't hold onto the Jedi and the resistance because she's holding onto her parent issues.  Your making connections between things that aren't connected in the story.  She doesn't go with Kylo Ren because he's a bad guy.  Not because she can't let go of her parents.

 

(and you completely ignored the other theme)

 

Your grasping at straws.

Edited by PeterMP
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It's going to open at a lower number than TLJ and word of mouth is going to be mixed at best.

 

Internationally off to a really slow start.

 

I know Disney is terrified they have sucked the life out of this franchise. 

 

Expect major major changes, but I'm not sure it will matter.

 

No visionary will ever get the control they need to do something bold and new and exciting.

 

Hell, do kids even care about Star Wars anymore? Feels like nostalgia porn.

 

Move on to something new.

 

 

Edited by Hooper
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