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All Things Star Wars Thread -- Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker


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20 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 teddy bears capturing Jedi Master Luke Skywalker

 

I want to point out that Luke essentially allowed them to be captured rather than blasting the Ewoks away, but even before that tries to stop Chewbacca from taking the bait that sets off the trap.   Han pulls out his blaster and is ready to start killing Ewoks and Luke tells him not to, and it'll be all right.

 

It is like he knows they are better off being "captured" by the Ewoks then starting a fight with them.

Edited by PeterMP
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Just now, PeterMP said:

 

I want to point out that, that Luke essentially allowed them to be captured rather than blasting the Ewoks away, but even before that tries to stop Chewbacca from taking the bait that sets off the trap.   Han pulls out his blaster and is ready to start killing Ewoks and Luke tells him not to, and it'll be all right.

 

It is like he knows they are better off being "captured" by the Ewoks then starting a fight with them.

Back when Luke looked for the good in people rather than trying to murder people in their sleep because there's a hint of darkness.

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3 minutes ago, Hooper said:

It's going to open at a lower number than TLJ and word of mouth is going to be mixed at best.

 

Internationally off to a really slow start.

 

I know Disney is terrified they have sucked the life out of this franchise. 

 

Expect major major changes, but I'm not sure it will matter.

 

No visionary will ever get the control they need to do something bold and new and exciting.

 

Hell, do kids even care about Star Wars anymore? Feels like nostalgia porn.

 

Move on to something new.

 

They're still going to make a ton of money.  They aren't going to move on.

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4 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

They're still going to make a ton of money.  They aren't going to move on.

 

Oh, Disney won't. They will squeeze every drop out of this lemon, but right now they are spending more money to make less than before. 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Hooper said:

It's going to open at a lower number than TLJ and word of mouth is going to be mixed at best.

 

Internationally off to a really slow start.

 

I know Disney is terrified they have sucked the life out of this franchise. 

 

Expect major major changes, but I'm not sure it will matter.

 

No visionary will ever get the control they need to do something bold and new and exciting.

 

Hell, do kids even care about Star Wars anymore? Feels like nostalgia porn.

 

Move on to something new.

 

 


LooK how well John Favreau is doing with the Mandolorian. Kevin Fiege is already signed up for a movie. As soon as they dump Kathleen Kennedy and put those dudes in charge it’s going to catch fire again. Everyone said Marvel was dead and look what those guys did in the last 15 years, 30 billion at the box office. They have the treatments from the Game of Thrones guys for the old republic storyline. The amount of content they can adapt from Legends, EU and the video games is pretty robust too. More adaptable source material than they had with Marvel. Kathleen Kennedy and Lucas were the weak links since the original trilogy. In the right hands this universe is ripe.

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I really like the movie, but I have different expectations for these movies. Don't get me wrong, I would have preferred they create a Star Wars universe more like they have with Marvel. Rey would have been great for a couple movies before TOS. Having her go off on other adventures. Training, getting stronger, with hints of who she really is could have been awesome. But for what this was, they did a good job toying with my emotions and most of the characters were great. Except Finn. They made him into a uselss character like @Dr. Do Itch Bigsaid. 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Those guys are no longer doing Star Wars


yes I know, but they did the treatments for an old republic storyline before they left for Netflix.

 

A treatment is a script precursor. A rough draft of events and characters/plot points.

Edited by SoCalSkins
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20 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Again, not at all what happened in the movie. 

 

Doesn't it depend on whose version of the story you believe?  In Kylo Ren's mind, he defends himself from certain death.  In Luke's it is just a fleeting moment, and the Kylo Ren turns on him.

 

We've two different perspectives of the same event, but we don't know where the truth lies.

 

(And that people don't get this is an indication of how poor of a story it is.)

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24 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Doesn't it depend on whose version of the story you believe?  In Kylo Ren's mind, he defends himself from certain death.  In Luke's it is just a fleeting moment, and the Kylo Ren turns on him.

 

We've two different perspectives of the same event, but we don't know where the truth lies.

 

(And that people don't get this is an indication of how poor of a story it is.)

 

It's weird that The Emperor is this legendary Sith for 75% of the movies, until someone still wet behind the ears comes along and foils his plans every time.  I understand in ROTJ it was really Vader who killed him so that is fine, but the way he was defeated in ROS was kind of like, "okay okay we get it she is jesus christ reincarnate" 

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1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

 

Only a sociopath would consider killing ones parents part of letting go of the past or that feeling bad about killing ones parents is an indication that you can't let go of the past.

 

Nobody considered those things to be part of the letting go of the past narrative from TLJ. 

 

Those parts are to suggest that's he's still redeemable.

 

And she doesn't hold onto the Jedi and the resistance because she's holding onto her parent issues.  Your making connections between things that aren't connected in the story.  She doesn't go with Kylo Ren because he's a bad guy.  Not because she can't let go of her parents.

 

(and you completely ignored the other theme)

 

Your grasping at straws.

 

Things can be more complex than simply meaning one thing.

 

It's a part of Kylo's arc. He killed his father to become whole because he was in conflict with himself being pulled to the light and that was what he thought would help him let go of his past identity of Ben and fully become the dark side user he wanted to be as Kylo. After doing that, in TLJ he is pushing Rey to do the same and "let the past die, kill it if you have to. That's the only way to become what you were meant to be." It is pretty obvious what he is referring to considering his actions.

 

Kylo would not be saying this if he hadn't just killed Han. When you acknowledge how killing Han fits into that idea it's easy to see how his inability kill his mother is also part of it. Yeah, he's also a sociopath and yeah it also works to help keep him redeemable leave the door open for Leia to get to him. Snoke tells him that killing Han tore him apart and he was unbalanced instead of resolving the conflict within him like he thought it would. It's what the movie is saying. Kylo despite his efforts is quite unable to let go of his past. It's a common theme throughout the trilogy and is also in the very first scene in TFA too. 

 

Quote
Kylo Ren: Look how old you've become.
Tekka: Something far worse has happened to you.
Ren: You know what I've come for.
Tekka: I know where you come from. Before you called yourself "Kylo Ren."
Ren: The map to Skywalker. We know you've found it. And now you're going to give it to the First Order.
Tekka: The First Order rose from the dark side. You did not.
Ren: I'll show you the dark side.
Tekka: You may try. But you cannot deny the truth that is your family.

 

Kylo is trying to run from his past, his upbringing, who he truly is, choosing to reject what he knows is within and trying to form a new identity as the heir to Vader and has been unable to do so despite his efforts. So yes, while letting go of the past is a theme of TLJ,  we kill Luke, our hero, we kill the new master sith in the 2nd movie, and other things that occur from a story structure that change Star Wars, from a character perspective, it's right in line with Kylo to propose this but not be able to follow through on it. 

 

As for Rey, her rejection of Kylo is both because he is quite clearly a bad guy in the moment and also because she is unwilling to let go of the things that he is telling her. She won't let go of her friends, of the resistance, of Leia, of the Jedi which is what he is explicitly asking her to do in that scene. Leave all that past nonsense behind and join him yet our hero cannot do it. It is a rejection of both leaving behind her past and a rejection of Kylo himself due to his intentions and what he wants, specifically as he mentions, ignore all the things she loves and let them die. Ignore your past. Stop worrying about your parents stop worrying about your friends, about being a Jedi, about this whole rebels/resistance vs empire/first order. Think of how we are introduced to Rey. She literally lives in an iconic symbol of the OT, an AT-AT. Symbolically, she is actually living in the past, wearing rebel helmets and learning about the war traumatized by being abandoned by her parents. 


This tracks consistently across all 3 movies for these two characters while the meta theme of killing the past works with TLJ, especially in contrast to TFA which is a remade ANH. That theme tells us this movie is going to be different. 

 

As for the other idea you mentioned, I really liked that up to this point, Rey had come from nothing. But i don't think that was necessarily a big theme of TLJ since it was always a question whether Kylo was telling the truth or not. Just like they both said they saw the other would turn, this was never treated as something so concrete that it became a theme. I've taken the theme across all movies being less that a hero can come from somewhere and more that your identity is determined by you and is a choice. Kylo has struggled to choose who he wanted to be, modeling his identity on Vader and rejecting the identity of Ben Solo. Rey comes from nothing. She doesn't belong in this story as Kylo says. "I'm no one" as Rey says in TFA. Yet she chooses to become a Jedi, she rejects her identity and fate as a scavenger and injects herself into the story. This pays off in the next when she again rejects her identity and chooses who she wants to be. She picks her own identity. That idea of choice again, is consistent across all 3 movies and is a popular idea in fantasy storytelling. 

 

 

 

 

46 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:


yes I know, but they did the treatments for an old republic storyline before they left for Netflix.

 

A treatment is a script precursor. A rough draft of events and characters/plot points.

 

I knew that I just didn't know they had written anything on it for Disney.  but I wouldn't trust anything written by those two

Edited by Momma There Goes That Man
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41 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Doesn't it depend on whose version of the story you believe?  In Kylo Ren's mind, he defends himself from certain death.  In Luke's it is just a fleeting moment, and the Kylo Ren turns on him.

 

We've two different perspectives of the same event, but we don't know where the truth lies.

 

(And that people don't get this is an indication of how poor of a story it is.)

 

I think the movie is pretty clear that Luke's story is the accurate account but we understand Kylo's perspective, waking up and seeing him standing over you with his lightsaber on, why he thinks that Luke was trying to kill him. That's why Luke's version explains both the truth and Kylo's interpretation of what happened. 

 

I had no idea that wasn't obvious to people and I can't fathom someone as smart as you didn't realize that. Sounds like you are nitpicking and grasping at straws. 

Edited by Momma There Goes That Man
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Just now, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

I think the movie is pretty clear that Luke's story is the accurate account but we understand Kylo's perspective, waking up and seeing him standing over you with his lightsaber on, why he thinks that Luke was trying to kill him. That's why Luke's version explains both the truth and Kylo's interpretation of what happened. 

 

I had no idea that wasn't obvious to people and I can't fathom someone as smart as you didn't realize that. Sounds like you are nitpicking and grasping at straws. 

 

Yeah because Kylo's mind had already been poisoned to a certain extent, the Luke incident is what drove him over the top.  (is how I read the scene)

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13 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

It's weird that The Emperor is this legendary Sith for 75% of the movies, until someone still wet behind the ears comes along and foils his plans every time.  I understand in ROTJ it was really Vader who killed him so that is fine, but the way he was defeated in ROS was kind of like, "okay okay we get it she is jesus christ reincarnate" 

 

He got arrogant. He cultivated Anakin's turn for a decade but tried to get Rey and Luke to turn in a single night. 

 

I wouldn't say she was jesus christ

 

Spoiler

but she harnessed the power of all of the jedi to finally defeat all of the sith. She reached out to them as she was shown trying to do earlier and in this moment she connected with them

 

1 minute ago, NoCalMike said:

 

Yeah because Kylo's mind had already been poisoned to a certain extent, the Luke incident is what drove him over the top.  (is how I read the scene)

 

If you see someone standing over you in the middle of the night holding a knife, you're going to draw some conclusions. When you are a powerful space wizard and that person is holding a light saber, you bring the entire house down upon you in an instant to save yourself then run away without further explanation..it's pretty easy to understand what happened. 

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Found this one to be a real disappointment. Felt like there was so much fanboy whining about the Last Jedi ("oh no, Rey isn't from one of the three families famous for force powers? How can that be?1?" "oh no, Luke actually had perfectly reasonable doubts about the Jedi after their multiple major failures? No, he has to be a pure unquestioning hero like he was as a teenager!") that they just decided to go back to repeating the original trilogy as much as possible.

 

(mild spoilers)

 

So, they basically attempted:

- A repeat of the "I am your father" moment

- A repeat of the MF coming to save a rebel air assault when all looks lost

- A repeat of Luke's ESB fall and survival

- A repeat of the 'enter the lair of the Empire to free a rebel prisoner' routine

- A repeat of Lando undercover in a mask

- A repeat of the Obi-Wan death to save (basically surrogate in his case) his child

 

Others I'm sure I'm not thinking of at the moment, plus cameos and callbacks galore.

 

People can like what they want to, I don't insult people for such. But for those who've been complaining about the Last Jedi, i really liked it largely because it was original. It had ideas, it found great places to take the story and came up with several of the most memorable moments in the entire series for me.

This one, on the other hand, felt like a soulless cash-grab. They were just lining up fan service moments and really not trying to challenge anybody. It was predictable and, amazingly for a Star Wars film, pretty boring. A sad way to end it. 

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4 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Found this one to be a real disappointment. Felt like there was so much fanboy whining about the Last Jedi ("oh no, Rey isn't from one of the three families famous for force powers? How can that be?1?" "oh no, Luke actually had perfectly reasonable doubts about the Jedi after their multiple major failures? No, he has to be a pure unquestioning hero like he was as a teenager!") that they just decided to go back to repeating the original trilogy as much as possible.

 

(mild spoilers)

 

So, they basically attempted:

- A repeat of the "I am your father" moment

- A repeat of the MF coming to save a rebel air assault when all looks lost

- A repeat of Luke's ESB fall and survival

- A repeat of the 'enter the lair of the Empire to free a rebel prisoner' routine

- A repeat of Lando undercover in a mask

- A repeat of the Obi-Wan death to save (basically surrogate in his case) his child

 

Others I'm sure I'm not thinking of at the moment, plus cameos and callbacks galore.

 

People can like what they want to, I don't insult people for such. But for those who've been complaining about the Last Jedi, i really liked it largely because it was original. It had ideas, it found great places to take the story and came up with several of the most memorable moments in the entire series for me.

This one, on the other hand, felt like a soulless cash-grab. They were just lining up fan service moments and really not trying to challenge anybody. It was predictable and, amazingly for a Star Wars film, pretty boring. A sad way to end it. 

 

If you liked the way TFA was heading down nostalgia lane, you probably like EP9.  If you liked the way TLJ was heading towards a very different and original direction, you might not like EP9.  To me, the central problem is that Abrams and Johnson seem to have a very different views of where they wanted to take this trilogy, so the movies don't really mesh well in a single arc.

 

With that said, I still liked it.  Objectively, I'll admit that it had a lot of shortcomings as a film, but lot of things I liked seeing on a big screen as a Star Wars fan.

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9 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

If you liked the way TFA was heading down nostalgia lane, you probably like EP9.  If you liked the way TLJ was heading towards a very different and original direction, you might not like EP9.  To me, the central problem is that Abrams and Johnson seem to have a very different views of where they wanted to take this trilogy, so the movies don't really mesh well in a single arc.

 

With that said, I still liked it.  Objectively, I'll admit that it had a lot of shortcomings as a film, but lot of things I liked seeing on a big screen as a Star Wars fan.

I don't like the idea of it being "nostalgia" or not as the choice. I don't think anyone had a problem with a Star Wars trilogy bringing back our old characters, locations, even themes. But resorting to only repeating plot points and story beats because you're afraid of fan backlash to anything new or original is just sad. 

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10 minutes ago, Barry.Randolphe said:

Spoiler?

 

  Hide contents

So what did Fin have to tell Rey in the quicksand, but told her he'd tell her later?

 

They never explained how Maz got Luke's lightsaber too 

 

 


It was pretty dumb that they put something like that in and didn’t resolve it. As if the story needed gimmicks like that.

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1 hour ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I don't like the idea of it being "nostalgia" or not as the choice. I don't think anyone had a problem with a Star Wars trilogy bringing back our old characters, locations, even themes. But resorting to only repeating plot points and story beats because you're afraid of fan backlash to anything new or original is just sad. 

 

Yeah, there's probably a happy medium somewhere.  

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Just got back from seeing it. Pretty much exactly what you would expect from Kennedy firing Trevorrow at the last minute, and then hiring Abrams

in a panicky, 11th hour move. Abrams did a yeoman's job for TFA, but his creative energies for Star Wars were spent at that point, and boy does it ever

show in ROS. What a crazy mess of a movie. And, probably the greatest sin of them all for a Star Wars movie, at times very boring. If there is one thing

that Star Wars should NEVER EVER be, its boring. Something Lucas didn't understand when he made the prequels.

 

I see there a number of "fire Kennedy" posts in the thread now, and I have to agree. That's two back to back bad movies in a row in TLJ and ROS. And of course

she mishandled Solo as well. Clearly the only way right this fast sinking ship is to relieve Kennedy from her duties at the helm. 

 

(BTW, trivial point here, but wasn't Matt Smith (of "The Crown" fame) supposed to be in this movie? Didn't see him.) 

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