WP: No NFL team got more from 2015 draft class than Redskins, ESPN’s Mel Kiper says

[skinfan2k]

Moses looked like a turnstile the first year he was here.  We need to get a LG and C through the draft or FA and Callahan will work his magic.  Scheff only missed 1 play the entire play. 

[SkinsGuy]

That's one way to look at it. The other is that without more of a scale, we are left with a very binary evaluation: did they contribute or didn't they. If that's the case, every draft pick would essentially be a pass/fail evaluation. 

 

Again, I don't agree with the guy's actual assessments of the players, but they are fair for him to have. For example, Scherff played well from everything I could see (granted, I'm not a OL expert). But, it's very reasonable for some to have wanted a play-maker who is much more dynamic with the 5th overall pick in the draft.  

 

 

Maybe, but to me that is more of the "moving target" on this board that the Redskins can never hit to satisfy anyone.

 

For years on this board (and in other Redskin fan enclaves), the loudest mantra from everybody is "BUILD THE LINES! BUILD THE LINES!" through the draft. And not in the 6th and 7th round, either, but with top of the draft talent.

 

Now with a GM like Scott and a pick like Scherff, the Redskins are doing that. Yet now the mantra being yelled is "DYNAMIC PLAYMAKER! DYNAMIC PLAYMAKER!".

 

See, the Redskins can't win. They just can't hit that target to satisfy anybody because the target is always being moved.

 

 

 

The year we drafted Kerrigan, we traded down to do so. Kerrigan has been very good for us, but we traded away our shot to grab Watt. So, even if Kerrigan continues to be solid, we lost a dynamic player at the same position. 

 

I'm not familiar about Watt's history pre-draft, but did everybody know beforehand that Watt was going to be this dynamic playmaker, or is this just sour grape hindsight about a player that nobody could've known would be that good?

 

 

 

So, from everything I've seen, I'm thrilled with the draft. But simply contributing to a 9-7 team may not be the end-all for everyone's evaluation. 

 

 

Maybe some wanted more from a bunch of rookies, but what?

 

1991 Hog-like o-line play from Scherff?

 

16 sacks instead of 8 from Preston Smith

 

89 catches instead of 59 from Crowder?

 

I mean, what are people looking for?

[Butters20]

I gotta agree with kool. Moses stepping up took a ton of pressure and scrutiny off of the scherff debacle. They were very solid on the right side, as opposed to having scherff and leribeus on that side which would have been a major problem and probably Dulled the year Kirk ended up having.

I loved the Jarrett and spaight picks. Somewhat small guys who play hardnosed defense. Jarrett surprised in a great way and should be with the team for years barring injury. I thought it was odd spaight got Ir'd for concussion. Hope he turns out ok. At minimum would be special teamer.

Crowder did very well for year one. Sure djax being out helped his stats, but it's widely accepted that WR is a position that most picks take at least 2 seasons to develop into their roles.

Matt jones imo remains a mystery. Had moments of brilliance, mixed with injuries and fumbles.

Preston smith killed it. He's obviously a dynamic pass rusher, hopefully he can progress and be counted on in the running game too.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Maybe, but to me that is more of the "moving target" on this board that the Redskins can never hit to satisfy anyone.

 

For years on this board (and in other Redskin fan enclaves), the loudest mantra from everybody is "BUILD THE LINES! BUILD THE LINES!" through the draft. And not in the 6th and 7th round, either, but with top of the draft talent.

 

Now with a GM like Scott and a pick like Scherff, the Redskins are doing that. Yet now the mantra being yelled is "DYNAMIC PLAYMAKER! DYNAMIC PLAYMAKER!".

 

See, the Redskins can't win. They just can't hit that target to satisfy anybody because the target is always being moved.

 

I see your point and I'm not really talking about public opinion. I'm talking about someone who could objectively and unemotionally grade a draft. Anyway, I'm not upset with the draft at all, I just wanted to meet somewhere in the middle due to two things:

 

1) It's very early to grade anything

2) Just getting production from someone doesn't mean you optimized that pick

 

But, I can't stress this enough, if we let McCloughan do his thing for 2-4 more years I think we'll be in great position! 

[The Consigliere]

What could you possibly not like that Jarret provided as a 6th round pick.? His play this year would seem to guarantee himself a future with the team as a 6th rounder. Great pick and not sure how it can be viewed otherwise. I do understand he was pressed into action due to a multitude of injuries, but I thought he handled himself well, especially in coverage.

 

Completely justifiable take, in the process of writing long winded posts like that, there are moments where you can be intellectually lazy and I definitely was there, as I graded him more on my long term expectations in both valuations, rather than in terms of what he actually did after we drafted him. It would probably be a lot more fair to grade him with a B- or a C+ in terms of production, but in the process of grading I conflated his actual performance with my long term expectations of the player which are largely uninspired (I think he's basically a roster depth guy that is a replacable piece, and not a starter you'd ever want to rely on if not for injuries, and roster depth issues). Jarret was highly productive considering where he was picked at, and in general, I just view his future similar to Horton's from half a decade ago, but much worse (as I felt Horton had a lot of potential, while I think Jarrett is a guy who might be able to stick on rosters, but not a guy I expect to ever be a difference maker, or a reliable consistent starter season to season).

 

As to criticism of my grades in general, I welcome it, and as long as it's based on evidence and reason, like the criticism of my Jarrett, I feel it's totally warranted, and even if it isn't based on that, all's fair in evaluations, we aren't going to agree on everything and often on many things at all.

 

For those wondering, the vast bulk of my reasoning for disliking large chunks of the draft was in my disagreement with the valuations, and relative upside of the picks, especially considering how high we picked. When you have three top 70 picks, you need to get at least one elite difference maker, especially when you have major problems not only with depth and talent, but also difference making talent, and I felt we clearly did not do that. Scherrf was a pick that could have easily been addressed via FA, and much better addressed s Guards usually aren't hugely expensive, I also was leery of Scherrf because he did not appear capable of playing OT at the next level, and had serious issues on the tape we could see, suffering awful performances against multiple poor teams, and middling talents while he managed to avoid ever blocking against elite talent in his '14 season (Maryland and Indiana games being particularly poor). I hated that pick, especially with Leonard Williams there (and I didn't have Scherrf in my top 13 anyway).

 

After the draft I felt on the positive side, Preston Smith sounded to be at bare minimum productive in the way of Kenard Lang back in the day and maybe better, especially if we could switch to a 4-3, I thought Crowder was solid value, as he definitely looked like an inexpensive replacement for Garcon, but a pick we could have made w/our second 4th rounder while we addressed interior line play or a developmental OT in fast falling Tre Jackson and Clemmings. So it was a kind of either/or pick. Kouandiji was a decent enough speculative pick, betting on a 4 star Alabama recruit, 15th ranked OT in the '10 class with long term potential, but definitive flaws. I liked that pick, and don't care that he didn't contribute this year, as I prioritize long term upside anyway and he was clearly a pick where McC was basically adding a long term OG prospect to go with Spencer Long probably with hopes that he might be able to step into the lineup as a starter or backup depth guy by the middle of '16 or early '17. I also loved Spaight as a prospect, and considered Mitchel interesting, if not the corner I would have taken.

 

On the bad side I thought the Scherrf pick was god awful and remain convinced of that (though I do believe he'll be able to contribute as a solid starter on the OL), I hated the Matt Jones pick, thought it was a huge reach, and made zero sense especially considering the other talent available even at RB, but I can be honest about where I was wrong (like Jarrett), and I will argue that I was wrong about Jones. It doesn't look like it right now, but I believe that our running game fell apart because basically 4/5's of our starting OL for the bulk of the season were different starters from last year, and 2/5th's of the line had no business being out there (LeRiebius, Long etc), but were forced into playing due to injury. If McC were to have his first choice guys that he thought were legit long term fixtures on the OL by say '17 (Right now it looks like we have 3/5's of that), then Jones would be a monster. They simply weren't holes for those guys, and with an inexperienced line, there wasn't veteran savvy either. It was a worst case scenario for Jones and Morris when Lavaman went down, and we were forced to start a raw and maybe not so talented Long, and a hopeless LeReibius. I am convinced that the Jones we saw in September will be the Jones we typically see once Lava is back and healthy, and we get a replacement at Center (and if the rest of the OL can stay healthy). All the talent in the world on the outside won't matter if you can't provide quality blocking up front (just as lacking talent at QB will render a talented OL irrelevant), and you see that in N.E. having abandoned the run game entirely after injuries forced them to start third string and 4th string RB's, and forced them to switch up starters on the OL virtually every week.

 

Lastly as DB's fell late I expected us to go after guys like Ekpre Olomu, and Shepard , falling potentially elite corners but instead we drafted luxury guys in Reiter, immediately cut, and taking an Evan Spencer who was never involved in OSU's passing game beyond pass blocking, and a nice ST's guy, and in Mitchel and Jarrett, two guys I felt were inferior to the aforementioned corners, and Derron Smith.

 

I think in terms of second contracts down the line and basic valuation, by '19 we'll be trying to resign Scherrf, Smith, Jones, and Crowder, and I think Kouandiji, and Spaight are long term developmental roll's of the dice. 3 guys making a roster from a draft earns a passing score, and if the latter 2 also make the roster and contribute as starters it's even better, but it's not what I expected then, or now. At the time I probably graded it a D+ or C-, and currently I'd probably grade it overall as a C+ with the only guy likely to be an elite difference maker being Smith, who could be one, maybe, we'll see, regardless he definitely looks at least good enough to be a legit long term starter which is great, just wish we did a lot more in terms of elite talent with so many early picks, instead, we just got a DE/OLB who could be special or at least above average, and a RB I have a hunch I was completely wrong on, but who clearly hasn't proven it yet.

 

I look forward to this coming draft, I dont expect McC to be looking at DL or DB specifically early, I suspect he'll go into that 21st pick with a collection of prospects that might make it there on his board, and the vast bulk of those players I'm betting our DE's, DT's, WR OL and DB's. My suspicion is he'll trade down from round 1 or 2, pending on who falls so he can take multiple shots at those positions in particular and I wouldn't be surprised if he took a QB in round 3 or 4, or if those second tier guys keep falling, on day 3 in round 5 or 6 (. maybe Hogan, or a Sudfeld perhaps) Four months from now if we stay at slot I suspect we'll have drafted the best defensive player on the board available at our slot in round 1, and if there just isn't one there, I wouldn't be surprised by a trade creep scenario so we can just throw darts at the best DL's, MLB's, DB's, interior OL's, and a WR.

[The Consigliere]

Biggest line from the whole article, to me:

 

 

Whoa.  I bet about 90% of talking heads would disagree; the Cowboys have been anointed the NFCE's champ apparent for 2016 barring romoSUCKS injury.  That he's saying we could compete, I mean, I agree, but I didn't expect it from him.

 

Still a couple years too early to evaluate the draft class (how did we feel about '12 between the end of last year and now?), but evaluation at each step isn't a bad thing.  This year's rookie class has excelled.

 

Personally, I don't mind if all Scherff is is a right guard, a RG is a RG, if he and Moses can anchor the right side, that's some good stuff.  Preston Smith has been a nice surprise, hopefully he continues to develop as an OLB.  If he reaches Kerrigan-level, that'll be a nice duo.  Matt Jones has potential, he needs to keep growing though.  He probably has the highest chance of the performers in this class to just disappear.  Crowder has been decent, and continued growth could drag him out from DJax's shadow.  That and Crowder can probably just outlast DJax by virtue of age.  Jarrett was a very nice surprise and hopefully continues to grow.

 

The rest of the class is up and down, Spaight is one of those picks we seem to have a lot where there's potential but something scraps the rookie year and we have to hope he pans out later.  I'd really like Kouandjio to develop too, having someone ready and capable to jumping in and taking over for Lauvao in a year or two would be very nice.

 

I am betting Dallas will be the odds on favorite next year with a healthy Romo back, but I also think long term, we're in the best position which is pretty shocking to say. We have the best GM, easily, in division. There are no special coaches in the division, all would be ranked somewhere between the middle and the back end of the league if ranked, and we also have one of the youngest teams, with the youngest QB at the helm. Manning and Romo are old for QB's, and Philly has nothing at the position. Cousins is still a question mark, but he certainly produced a quality season and if he produced seasons along those lines going forward, we'd be set at the position, at least in terms of regular season play. I'm not sold, but I'm definitely more excited about him than I was six months ago.

 

It's a good situation, really the first case for optimism since Gibbs II, and even that was compromised by Gibbs unwillingness to make his return contingent on Cerrato being s canned.

How arrogant are you? Wow.

 

Is this not the place for opinions? Isn't that the point? I couldn't find anything anywhere about Reiter other than that he scored well in a SPARQ sense. There were loads of interesting prospects available at the time and we took a guy that was an extreme long shot to make the team. Pick didnt make any sense to me at all.

[RedBeast]

Consig...a well thought out and written response, although I somewhat disagree to a point.

A few points:

1. Hindsight (for everyone) is 20/20...we all have a "few passes we would like back."

2. None of us are in that room when the pressure is on.

3. None of us know what the draft board looked like, or the holistic team approach/strategy

4. GMSM did get 10 picks

5. None of us are ex or current NFL staff

Overall, I was pretty happy with our draft, but kind of shocked when we picked Scherff. I swore Williams was gonna be a Redskin. Glad we got OL though. Smith is turning out well and I think Jones will as well (with OL improvement). Crowder did well this year and I think will grow. Kouandjio and Spaight? High hopes...along with the rest.

I think we did well, but see #1 above. Sometimes it just takes a few years to see value. But I am a rook when it comes to evaluating College recruits so WTH do I know?

Just my two cents...

[Burgold]

On the Scherff value thing-- Am I the only one who remembers the center of our line being a sieve? Ramsey, Campbell, Grossman, RGIII, McCoy all getting killed with blitzes up the middle and third and shorts always getting stuffed?

Giving Cousins a pocket and the ability to step up or to the side is huge! Having stabilized the middle of our line and making it a strength is a great thing.

To me, that was worth a fifth of Jack at least.

[The Consigliere]

That is a pretty narrow, if not silly way to look at it, though.

 

I mean, constantly pining for what you think might have been (but you don't really know). With that approach, you would never be satisfied with a player drafted because you will always be wondering about the hundreds of other players eligible in that draft.

 

 

 

And criticizing a draft based off of rank speculation of what a different player MIGHT have done if Scott had selected them is intelligent debate?

 

McCloughan selected these players, many of them were forced into long-term play probably way earlier than the Redskin coaches wanted them to be. They played well, and contributed to the Redskins' division championship success, and, for now, have a bright future with the team. 

 

What more do you want for a draft after one season?

Leonard Williams at 5, La El Collins with our 3rd rounder, Tre Jackson w/our first 4th rounder. Jacorey Shepard, Derron Smith, and Ekpre-Olomu with our 6th/7th rounders are a couple examples of what I would've wanted.

 

That being said, he killed it with undrafted free agents, and midseason waiver wire pick ups, and the class contributed to changing the atmosphere of the locker room along with the FA signings which was excellent.

[RedBeast]

On that day? Collins was a HUGE risk. Suspected for murder? Kinda understand why we passed. We coulda had him at 7.

[johnboy99]

and Ekpre-Olomu with our 6th/7th rounders are a couple examples of what I would've wanted.

 

You're the second poster talking about Ekpre-Olomu - I don't get it - his knee is chopped ham and he hasn't played this year - there's potential/upside and then there's what might have been - he's done.

[Butters20]

we could have drafted him (lael Collins) but apparently he made it known that if he wasn't drafted by round 3, he would not sign a contract.

[The Consigliere]

The one major thing you left out of your post is who you would have taken instead (outside one or two spots). It’s easy to talk about this player would have been better in hindsight, but who was on your board? Since you have such definite opinions about who we took, clearly you have your own “board”. But be honest.

 

For example, since you don’t like the Scherff pick due to not enough value for the pick (a really horrible reason to be honest, but more on that later), if you say at that point you would take anyone but L Williams, you are not being honest. To date, our 2^nd rd pick Preston Smith is outplaying LW, and it’s not really close. Also, the Jet’s #2 pick was Devin Smith – 9 catches for 115 yds and 1 TD. Our first 2 picks have for outperformed their first two picks. It’s not even a conversation.

 

Here are my thoughts:

 

Brandon Scherff – I like this pick a lot. It’s who I wanted pre-draft and nothing has changed my mind. We so desperately needed help on the Oline. And that crap about “value pick” is just that, crap. We needed a guy who you could plug and forget. Yea, they looked at him at T to start but everyone knew he was a G. He was the best Oline in the draft. WE got him and I am glad.

 

Preston Smith – I was not excited about this pick to start. I just did not see a need for another OLB. Not saying we were great there, but we had other needs. I really wanted Landon Collins but the Giants moved up and took him. The next person for me was Jalen Collins. I really wanted secondary there. However, Preston Smith has for outperformed even the most pessimistic expectations on limited snaps. He has unique skillset that makes a good hybrid LB that can play both the 4-2 and 3-4.

 

Matt Jones – I like the trade back to get more picks. As for the pick itself, another head-scratcher on draft day. Just did not see a need at RB. I would have taken most anyone at most any other position available. I still wanted CB. I was hoping Jeff Heurrman TE would fall to us, but he did not. I still think we need TE. I like Reed, but he is a little fragile and we clearly have depth problems. It’s a bit disingenuous to say Matt fell off. The run game has been a problem since SL and KL went down. So is the lack of production him? The blocking? The game plans (later in the season we were heavy pass)? It’s just too early to say if he was a good pick or not.

 

Jamison Crowder – Since he had not taken secondary yet so I wanted either Clayton Geathers (SS) or Ibraheim Campbell (SS). However, this looks to be a very good pick. Of course his production goes down with DJax in. If you were the QB who would you throw to? That will change as time goes on and it’s nice to have another option if DJax goes down.

 

Arie Kouandjio – Again I was looking for Campbell since he was left but I liked this pick. We need competition at Oline. He is on the practice squad and I believe will push for playing time next year. Too early to tell.

 

I did not follow the rest as close. I trust the FO. I typically look later. I will say a few things though –

 

I liked the Spaight pick. Still do. He was beast in STs during PS.

 

Kyshoen Jarrett – He has exceeded any realistic expectations for a 6^th rd pick! Not sure what you could possibly have a problem with here.

 

Tevin Mitchell – He would have been put on IR had he cleared waivers. It is very unusual for players to not clear waivers under this situation. Colts poached him. That will be remembered and will cost them later.

 

7th-A. Reiter –Your comment – “Some picks just reek of stupid and this pick did except for the athletic measurables.”  With all due respect, I have to agree with another poster that this just comes off as arrogant. You provide no reasoning, no alternatives, nothing. You just says it’s stupid, a pretty harsh assessment of a 7^th rd pick!

 

Oh, okay, no problem, here's my draft at slot with our picks including the trade where we got the best "value" trade in the draft when McC swung that deal with Seattle (i think PFF, or Outsiders or something grades trades for pick value and that popped out the following week).

 

1st: Leonard Williams-DT

2nd: Interesting, I had Jalen Collins, Randy Gregory, Kikaha, Ameer Abdullah, Ali Marpet and Green-Beckham rated the highest at this slot. If Gregory's med checks were good he would have been the pick, otherwise. I think in the end I would have been too leery of tabbing Gregory there without the med checks, Green-Beckham was the best value, but major knucklehead concerns and raw as can be (but a chance much like Marcus Peters to be the best prospect in the class who fell below tons of guys). In the end all the guys I liked here carried major risks-Collins only 10 starts, Randy Gregory Bi-polar? ODD? BPD? Who knows, Kikaha might just be a try hard guy, Abdullah fumbles a ton and is a slight figure, Marpet is a small college kid. Probably would have pulled the trigger on:

 

Jalen Collins.

 

Early returns definitely say Preston Smith would have been wiser pick.

 

3rd: La'El Collins-By the tail end of the late third round I would have grabbed Collins. W/the cops saying he was simply an interview subject (background), i would have pulled the trigger in round 3. The guy had top 10-15 talent, and I actually liked him a bit better than Scherrf, and like Scherrf he could swing back and forth between RT and OG, and was a better long term OT prospect too.

 

4th: Tre Jackson-This pick shifts entirely based on the Collins pick, I would have had Collins/Jackson/Clemmings my priorities for the 3rd and the two 4ths, Clemmings drops off the board if Collins is picked because the selection would be a lesser redundant selection.

 

4th: J. Crowder-I was fine with crowder w/our second fourth and I think he would've been there.

 

5th: Spaight-I loved Grady Jarrett, Michael Bennett though bad fits, Spaight and Hundley here. I would have cosigned on Spaight without a problem.

 

6th: Jacorey Shepard-Fav CB on the board

 

6th: Derron Smith-Fav Safety available

 

6th: Tre McBride-Fav WR available

 

7th: Ifro Ekpre-Olomu-1st round grade pre-ACL injury

 

7th: Busta Anderson-Really interesting developmental TE at the time.

 

That's basically what I would have done.

[The Consigliere]

Serious question.  Is this where the acid kicked in and you lost your mind?

probably.

[The Consigliere]

The one major thing you left out of your post is who you would have taken instead (outside one or two spots). It’s easy to talk about this player would have been better in hindsight, but who was on your board? Since you have such definite opinions about who we took, clearly you have your own “board”. But be honest.

 

For example, since you don’t like the Scherff pick due to not enough value for the pick (a really horrible reason to be honest, but more on that later), if you say at that point you would take anyone but L Williams, you are not being honest. To date, our 2^nd rd pick Preston Smith is outplaying LW, and it’s not really close. Also, the Jet’s #2 pick was Devin Smith – 9 catches for 115 yds and 1 TD. Our first 2 picks have for outperformed their first two picks. It’s not even a conversation.

 

Here are my thoughts:

 

Brandon Scherff – I like this pick a lot. It’s who I wanted pre-draft and nothing has changed my mind. We so desperately needed help on the Oline. And that crap about “value pick” is just that, crap. We needed a guy who you could plug and forget. Yea, they looked at him at T to start but everyone knew he was a G. He was the best Oline in the draft. WE got him and I am glad.

 

Preston Smith – I was not excited about this pick to start. I just did not see a need for another OLB. Not saying we were great there, but we had other needs. I really wanted Landon Collins but the Giants moved up and took him. The next person for me was Jalen Collins. I really wanted secondary there. However, Preston Smith has for outperformed even the most pessimistic expectations on limited snaps. He has unique skillset that makes a good hybrid LB that can play both the 4-2 and 3-4.

 

Matt Jones – I like the trade back to get more picks. As for the pick itself, another head-scratcher on draft day. Just did not see a need at RB. I would have taken most anyone at most any other position available. I still wanted CB. I was hoping Jeff Heurrman TE would fall to us, but he did not. I still think we need TE. I like Reed, but he is a little fragile and we clearly have depth problems. It’s a bit disingenuous to say Matt fell off. The run game has been a problem since SL and KL went down. So is the lack of production him? The blocking? The game plans (later in the season we were heavy pass)? It’s just too early to say if he was a good pick or not.

 

Jamison Crowder – Since he had not taken secondary yet so I wanted either Clayton Geathers (SS) or Ibraheim Campbell (SS). However, this looks to be a very good pick. Of course his production goes down with DJax in. If you were the QB who would you throw to? That will change as time goes on and it’s nice to have another option if DJax goes down.

 

Arie Kouandjio – Again I was looking for Campbell since he was left but I liked this pick. We need competition at Oline. He is on the practice squad and I believe will push for playing time next year. Too early to tell.

 

I did not follow the rest as close. I trust the FO. I typically look later. I will say a few things though –

 

I liked the Spaight pick. Still do. He was beast in STs during PS.

 

Kyshoen Jarrett – He has exceeded any realistic expectations for a 6^th rd pick! Not sure what you could possibly have a problem with here.

 

Tevin Mitchell – He would have been put on IR had he cleared waivers. It is very unusual for players to not clear waivers under this situation. Colts poached him. That will be remembered and will cost them later.

 

7th-A. Reiter –Your comment – “Some picks just reek of stupid and this pick did except for the athletic measurables.”  With all due respect, I have to agree with another poster that this just comes off as arrogant. You provide no reasoning, no alternatives, nothing. You just says it’s stupid, a pretty harsh assessment of a 7^th rd pick!

 

Just on pick 1. It's not crap. Guards are signifigantly cheaper on draft day, and in FA than OT's, DT's and edge rushers are far more expensive and much harder to find in terms of FA to boot. Going Guard at 5 was a terrible waste of resources in that sense. Just look at this year and last year for further emphasis, the next interior OL to go off the board was picked basically 15 slots later, this year the first interior lineman to be picked is projected to go 25-40. That's just how the position is valued, and it's your job as a GM to maximize the value of your resources, don't minimize them. If you loved an interior lineman that much, trade down for Marpet, or Erving or Collins a bit later, and snag the #1 rated prospect in the draft post-college season.

 

7th rounder. I tend to post really long winded arguments, by the time I hit the 7th round I already thought my post was more than long enough, hence the short comment. I explained my reasoning after getting hit on the arrogant argument. Remember when Casserly talked about day 2 picks as "Fun" picks? GM's make mistakes, especially bad ones like him, and even great ones like McC. I'm nowhere in his universe but the Reiter pick seemed to be based on athletic measurable grades and his personality/temperment, rather than talent, and just like him the Spencer pick seemed to be exclusively made on mental make up, and ST's/Blocking, rather than actual talent at his position. Those kinds of picks are when philosophical approach becomes louder than basic talent evaluation, much like the Scherrf pick (I'm completely and utterly convinced that Scherrf wasn't the 5th or 3rd or whatever pick on our board, I believe firmly that McC thought it was crucial to rebuild the line, and set the tone with attitude and approach and getting a lunchpail worker with a mean streak to line up opposite a monster like Silverback was far too attractive to McC and meant more value to him, than simply taking an elite interior lineman prospect who could play at DE in a 3-4 too. Williams might not change the complexion of the team or mentality in the locker room, Scherrf could help set the template for the rebuild, especially if he came anywhere close to his evals which suggested Pro Bowl caliber talent if moved to Guard).

 

I can understand that reasoning, but I believe in best guy on the board and maximizing cap and draft pick resources, and that's why I hated the pick (as well as not being as high on him as a prospect as many).

[Butters20]

Do me a favor and don't quote a novel on the responses

[The Consigliere]

Maybe, but to me that is more of the "moving target" on this board that the Redskins can never hit to satisfy anyone.

 

For years on this board (and in other Redskin fan enclaves), the loudest mantra from everybody is "BUILD THE LINES! BUILD THE LINES!" through the draft. And not in the 6th and 7th round, either, but with top of the draft talent.

 

Now with a GM like Scott and a pick like Scherff, the Redskins are doing that. Yet now the mantra being yelled is "DYNAMIC PLAYMAKER! DYNAMIC PLAYMAKER!".

 

See, the Redskins can't win. They just can't hit that target to satisfy anybody because the target is always being moved.

 

 

 

 

I'm not familiar about Watt's history pre-draft, but did everybody know beforehand that Watt was going to be this dynamic playmaker, or is this just sour grape hindsight about a player that nobody could've known would be that good?

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe some wanted more from a bunch of rookies, but what?

 

1991 Hog-like o-line play from Scherff?

 

16 sacks instead of 8 from Preston Smith

 

89 catches instead of 59 from Crowder?

 

I mean, what are people looking for?

 

I was never a part of that OL at all costs group. I was always a BAFP (best available football player) other than C/FB/S/TE/G/C with top 15 picks. I don't believe in prioritizing need over talent though I'm willing to consider prioritizing position groupings (for instance at 21 I'm in favor of just tabbing the best player available who plays CB/S/OG/DE/DT/MLB at slot. Doesn't appear there are any guards, or MLB's worth the pick though, so probably just CB/S/DE/DT and maybe WR.

 

As for Watt, some individuals were very high on him, I wasn't, just based on scouting reports (I hadn't had a chance to watch his games), his write ups reminded me of loads of try hard/work hard guys who never became special at the next level. Needless to say that half-arsed eval was even stupider than my recent take on Jarrett .

You're the second poster talking about Ekpre-Olomu - I don't get it - his knee is chopped ham and he hasn't played this year - there's potential/upside and then there's what might have been - he's done.

 

We'll see. He had no chance of playing in '15 considering what happened in December of '14, but if he didn't pass med checks, he's off the board anyway as you note, and I just would have drafted another guy I liked.

[Conn]

Is this not the place for opinions? Isn't that the point? I couldn't find anything anywhere about Reiter other than that he scored well in a SPARQ sense. There were loads of interesting prospects available at the time and we took a guy that was an extreme long shot to make the team. Pick didnt make any sense to me at all.

 

Please tell me you have the self awareness to know how the phrase "reeked of stupid" sounds from a guy on a message board. Please. 

[The Consigliere]

On that day? Collins was a HUGE risk. Suspected for murder? Kinda understand why we passed. We coulda had him at 7.

 

He wasn't suspected of murder. He wasn't even a witness and that was known at the time. Was not a rae carruth situation, teams were terrified of bad press after the ray rice and associated situations and just didnt think he was worth any of the trouble despite the top 15 eval. Word at the time was that the cops wanted to talk to him for background because he had dated her in the semi-distant past, and might have names/met people that might actually help their case. Never any suggestion that he was a suspect from police quotes ahead of draft day 1, and after.

Please tell me you have the self awareness to know how the phrase "reeked of stupid" sounds from a guy on a message board. Please. 

 

Again, the whole point of message boards is to express opinions, that pick struck pretty much everyone as, "What?!?!?! Can anyone find anything about this guy?!?!" Eventually an intrepid poster elsewhere dug up his OL Sparq oriented data which was excellent, but preceeding that nobody knew who the heck he was, and that's still pretty much the case.

[Going Commando]

Losing Spaight for the year was the real disappointment of the class for me. Especially since our ILB situation fell apart mid season. He would have gotten to play a lot of snaps. And we really needed him on Special Teams after we lost all of our best players in the unit.

The kid has talent and I hope he gets a chance next season. Hopefully he's been able to get healthy during the time off. But it's hard to come back from serious rookie year injuries because they put you so far behind that it's hard to establish yourself on a depth chart moving forward.

One fortunate thing about this season was we got to see so many of our rookies in action, and thus we have a really good picture of what their role can be moving forward. A lot of keepers so far. The remaining unknown I'm looking forward to watching most is Arie Kouandjio. He was a steady player at Alabama, and I still think he has the potential to be a starter.

[skinny21]

Not to minimize concussions, but I assume Spaight is fully healthy at this point Steve... as to how far behind he is, the good news is that at least he won't be having to focus on rehabbing this offseason.

Yeah, looking forward to seeing Kouandijo as well.

[bobandweave]

Not sure if this is widely known but when drafting in the first round of any draft some positions are historically safer to draft then others.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2441018-which-positions-are-the-safest-riskiest-at-the-top-of-the-nfl-draft

 

There's a link that breaks this down easier then I could but the takeaway here is that when drafting in the first round of any NFL draft, generally drafting interior offensive linemen tends to be a very good idea.

 

When we drafted Brandon Schreff last year my initial reaction was hallelujah, maybe honestly not so much as to me pretending like many of you out there that I "knew" that he would be a good player, rather it was a hallelujah in the sense of hell ya that makes sense to me and was the first time I thought damn we just turned the corner here

 

Why does Schereff make sense? First off I know a lot about the NFL and one thing I knew, drafting interior offensive linemen in the first half of the first round was a very safe and smart pick. They are the lowest position likely to bust out of the NFL, they make up 3-4-5 in rankings of positions that are most likely to have success in the NFL, and really what this team needed then (still does but this pick showed it to me) was a leader that understands this game better then my arm chair Qbing self.

 

By taking Brandon Schreff as the first pick in the Scot Mccloughan tenure it addressed a need, it showed that he was building from the line out which imo is the best way to create a successful sustained winning football team program, and that making splashy draft picks to sell jerseys wasn't in his mind the right thing to do. I loved the Brandon Schreff pick last year and still do.

 

Those with a problem with that pick imo just don't understand football too well. Argue all you want about a 5th overall pick has to be a future HOFer and I'll argue you nor I have any idea who is and who isn't going to be a HOFer from any draft class and playing Nostradamus with pretending you know the future to me is a foolish game. And anyone arguing that we didn't draft for need and I'll argue we most certainly had a desperate need to improve the offensive line and we did with that pick. Argue to me that he was a reach that day and I will say that every single expert that day had him going 9th overall to the Giants (4 picks higher then we took him) and that's not really any argument about reaching to me I'm open to listening to. And argue to me that he's not the best player available and I will say your foolish to think you know more about this game then our GM and obviously he was the best player on his board that day. There isn't really any argument I can think of to dislike the pick in any sort of way shape or form to me

[TK]

Figure this out before bans start getting handed out.

11. Please do not use the “Quote” feature to quote pics, gifs, vids, or any large sections of text.

It unnecessarily extends and clutters threads and is annoying. Edit them out.

If you would like to respond to the contents of a particular post, simply quote the sentence or idea that you're commenting upon, not the entire post if it's lengthy.

[Conn]

We could arguably use a small culling.

[DC9]

7th-Evan Spencer-F/F

 

A WR that can't catch? Clearly a character pick, but character doesn't matter if talent doesn't exist, just seemed like a guy who had little shot to make the team unless we had room for a ST's specialist who can really block.

 

All that insider info and you never knew that Spencer had family on our scouting staff?

 

That's the attention to detail that keeps you from getting a legit front office job.