The Gun Control Debate Thread

[TheGreatBuzz]

45 minutes ago, Larry said:

Their definition of "semiautomatic assault weapon", continued. 

 

I read that part as to be aimed at the "AR style pistols".  I'm cool with banning those.  But the handgun description at the beginning sure sounds like all semi-auto pistols.

48 minutes ago, Larry said:

And I note that their definition of a barrel shroud states that a slide that covers the entire top of the pistol doesn't coun

Not sure where you are getting that but the part I quoted would apply to rifles.

[Larry]

55 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I read that part as to be aimed at the "AR style pistols".  I'm cool with banning those.  But the handgun description at the beginning sure sounds like all semi-auto pistols.

 

 

Yes, at the beginning, they define what a semi automatic pistol is. Then they say that a semi automatic pistol that also meets these other criteria is a semiautomatic assault weapon. But only the latter are banned. 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 hours ago, Larry said:

 

Yes, at the beginning, they define what a semi automatic pistol is. Then they say that a semi automatic pistol that also meets these other criteria is a semiautomatic assault weapon. But only the latter are banned. 

Gotcha.  I must have misunderstood that part.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

@TheGreatBuzz where do you go to read all the specifics of the bill?  

 

Edit:  I found it.

 

Since the last ban expired back in 2004, was one able to take their grandfathered semi-automatic rifles to ranges to target shoot?  Or would under this new ban, be required to keep them locked in a safe or with trigger locks?

 

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Dont Taze Me Bro

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Reading more details of this S.66 bill, her changes would include some semi-automatic handguns based on their unloaded weight (more than 50 oz or 3.15 lbs).  That's ****ing ridiculous, imo.   

 

So, that would include say all regular size Desert Eagles (.50ae, .44 and .357 mag) because they are all over 4 LBs.   But I can buy a Desert Eagle .50ae revolver........or other semi-automatics that weigh less.  This senator that wrote this doesn't know her head from her ass.

 

Weight of the firearm shouldn't be included, imo.  

 

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Dont Taze Me Bro

[nonniey]

On 8/16/2019 at 12:55 PM, China said:

Another "controlled" gun making students safer:

 

First Graders Picked Up Gun Intended to Protect Ohio School

 

Two first graders found and removed a gun from an unlocked case that was brought to an Ohio school as part of a concealed-carry program to protect the school from gun violence, The Columbus Dispatch reports. The students at Highland Elementary, near the town of Sparta, reportedly picked up the weapon when a school official authorized by the district to carry it went to use a restroom. The school didn’t report the incident, which occurred in March—it only became public after the county sheriff found out about it through a resident’s Facebook post, which inspired community debates about whether school staff should be armed.

 

Click on the link for the full article

I assume the follow-up is the 1st Graders were expelled???? (Ok zero tolerance versus common sense is a different subject).

[StillUnknown]

 

cowardly ****

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

[Renegade7]

As much as I want this to stop, I can't help but have this feeling that the pendulum swung in one direction as a result of Obama and about to swing all the way in the opposite direction after Trump.  

 

That in general was in regards to everything, not just guns, but specific to guns the longer the Republicans refuse to meet in the middle on guns the less chance there will be a moderate approach to this when they are out of power.  There's a lot the country as a whole already agrees on, but if this doesn't get worked out by the time Dems take back over, the Liberal wing may end up making changes going further and leaving the otherside outside just like they are being left out now.

 

 You can make these guns illegal all you want, you have to be very careful how you go about trying to get them off the street, by force is going to backfire, why I support grandfathering certain weapons as long as you can't sell the guns or ammo anymore.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Renegade7

[tshile]

1 hour ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

Reading more details of this S.66 bill, her changes would include some semi-automatic handguns based on their unloaded weight (more than 50 oz or 3.15 lbs).  That's ****ing ridiculous, imo.   

 

So, that would include say all regular size Desert Eagles (.50ae, .44 and .357 mag) because they are all over 4 LBs.   But I can buy a Desert Eagle .50ae revolver........or other semi-automatics that weigh less.  This senator that wrote this doesn't know her head from her ass.

 

Weight of the firearm shouldn't be included, imo.  

 

 

 

Unfortunately this is what happens when the gun community doesn’t take charge. 

 

We’ve had years where we could have stood up and proposed something meaningful that was inline with what we think is right. We’ve done nothing. 

 

So when we finally get a bill it’s going to be full of stuff we don’t like for one reason or another (including that it won’t actually do anything)

 

and its what we deserve. Be a leader or a follower. The gun community chose to be neither so we’ll be relegated to follower. 

 

(As soon as the dems can actually pass something)

 

 

[visionary]

 

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Interesting.....

 

Quote

Democrats in the House Judiciary Committee approved a universal background check bill, but rejected an amendment to alert authorities when certain buyers fail a background check — even if the buyer isn’t a legal citizen.

Republican Rep. Greg Steube introduced the amendment to H.R. 8, the Bipartisan Background Checks Act of 2019, that would require notification to specific law enforcement agencies when an individual fails a background check, and would require Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to be notified upon the failed background check of an illegal immigrant, Fox News reported.

 

Rest of article at link below:

 

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2019/02/democrats-reject-gop-effort-to-alert-ice-when-illegals-fail-gun-background-checks/?fbclid=IwAR1Cmq0DuZUR11_ijKugzoPqd7Stf3pZnBlvCCn74GYeu46FQYaidKpliXw

[Springfield]

I can’t find anything that confirms that story on official congress websites.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

19 minutes ago, Springfield said:

I can’t find anything that confirms that story on official congress websites.

 

https://rules.house.gov/bill/116/hr-8

 

 

Was defeated 4-8.  It's under Rules Committee Record Vote No. 16 under the Committee Votes near the bottom of the page.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Dont Taze Me Bro

[Popeman38]

10 hours ago, Springfield said:

I can’t find anything that confirms that story on official congress websites.

https://steube.house.gov/media/press-releases/democrats-reject-steube-amendment-require-individuals-purchasing-firearms-fail

 

Story has links to both full bill and the proposed amendment. 

[Springfield]

Got it.  Reads to me like the democrats started a bill about mandatory background checks.  Republicans countered that with, "well hey, if an illegal fails a background check then ICE should know."

 

So now, republicans can claim that democrats care more about illegals than they do about white people  citizens.  Nevermind the fact that illegal immigrants aren't shooting up people in large numbers or anything.  Let's just shift the commentary to how democrats want to protect illegals.  Who cares that the bill will already notify "specific law enforcement agencies when an individual fails a background check", the democrats didn't say "lets deport illegals if they fail a background check".

 

Shameful of republicans and shameful of both of you if you're falling for this BS.

[twa]

what specific agencies will they notify w/o the amendment?

 

shameful is dismissing the deaths as not mass shootings.

[Springfield]

58 minutes ago, twa said:

what specific agencies will they notify w/o the amendment?

 

shameful is dismissing the deaths as not mass shootings.

 

The specific ones.

 

Show me some none Steve Miller numbers on illegal immigrant murders.  I'll give you a hint, there aren't any because it isn't being studied.  There are private studies but no official numbers.  I can tell you that the private studies suggest that illegal immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than citizens.  Not that it makes their crime OK in the least.  But trying to shift a universal background check bill to something that focuses on illegal immigrants is shameful.

[Larry]

Actually, I can certainly see the reasoning that if an illegal is trying to buy a gun, then maybe you should let ICE know.  

 

Although I could also see the notion that illegals should have the right to defend themselves, with a gun, too.  That maybe society is better if the illegals do not become a demographic that's safe for people to prey on.  

 

(Now, as a more practical matter?  We all now that not one single Republican will vote for the bill, with or without the amendment.  It's likely that enough Dems will vote against it that it doesn't pass, with or without.  The real reason the amendment was proposed was 1) In the hopes that it gets rejected, then it can be used as a talking point,.  and 2) if it gets included, then it might cause a few D votes to become "no", and kill the bill that the R's don't want passed, in the first place.)  

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Larry

[twa]

hr-8 will criminalize many routine actions by people like me and notifying ICE is a bridge too far?

 

There would be no SHIFT if the Dems did not object to a reasonable reporting requirement requested.

 

We could then focus on the bill's other flaws.

 

 

[Springfield]

It’s the same as adding a rider that authorities would be notified if you had any outstanding parking tickets, or didn’t pay your child support, or any number of other unrelated crimes.  That’s the point.

[twa]

8 minutes ago, Springfield said:

It’s the same as adding a rider that authorities would be notified if you had any outstanding parking tickets, or didn’t pay your child support, or any number of other unrelated crimes.  That’s the point.

 

I don't think it the same.

[Larry]

19 minutes ago, twa said:

hr-8 will criminalize many routine actions by people like me and notifying ICE is a bridge too far?

 

By "criminalize many routine actions", you mean "selling guns without a background check"?

 

You know.  Exactly what the bill is designed to do.  

 

You know.  Excatly like every other law has done, for the entire history of civilization.  It makes things illegal.  

 

But then, who said talking points have to make sense?  

 

24 minutes ago, twa said:

There would be no SHIFT if the Dems did not object to a reasonable reporting requirement requested.

 

"If only nobody objected to the amendment which my side attempted precisely because it was partisan, then there wouldn't have been an argument.  (Until we found something that we could do that they would object to.)"  

[twa]

2 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

By "criminalize many routine actions", you mean "selling guns without a background check"?

 

You know.  Exactly what the bill is designed to do.  

 

 

you obviously have not read the bill.