Cooked Crack Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 11 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I am paying attention. But to say there is more regulation is still false. And it hurts any future argument you make on this subject. There certainly are regulations on a uterus. But they pale in comparison to gun regs. I think you're only looking at this as a guns sold in a store require IDs and background checks. Not really taking into account that some states are trying to ban abortions with bureaucracy. Imagine if you had to travel 500 miles to the last gun store in the state. It's a different type of regulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Senate trying to pass federal legislation to ban abortions after 20 weeks. If it passes, they will chip away at 20 weeks. It's never ending. From Faux News today. http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/10/04/rep-trent-franks-late-abortion-bill-deserves-straight-up-or-down-vote-in-senate.html I won't post again about abortion in this thread, my point has been made. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 21 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said: I think you're only looking at this as a guns sold in a store require IDs and background checks. Not really taking into account that some states are trying to ban abortions with bureaucracy. Imagine if you had to travel 500 miles to the last gun store in the state. It's a different type of regulation. Actually I would say you are looking at it this way about sold in stores. How many laws are there dictating where I can carry, when I can carry, what type of gun I can carry, etc. Not trying to say abortion isnt regulated more than it should be. Im just saying there are more gun laws than uterus laws. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 10 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Im curious what the other pro gun people here think about bump stocks and how much they should be available...... I'm not a fan of bump fire. Just a work around for the full-auto ban for most states. The accuracy is crap and it's a waste of ammo. Also, makes it a lot easier for a d-bag like Paddock to get a lot more rounds down range towards innocent people a lot faster. I'm 100% against it and should be outlawed. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 59 minutes ago, youngchew said: I'm 100% against it and should be outlawed. I agree. Was just wondering if i was the only pro gun guy who felt that way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busch1724 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 26 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I agree. Was just wondering if i was the only pro gun guy who felt that way. You're certainly not. I'm one of those. I'm also a recovering Republican. Registered Independent 12 - 14 years ago or so. I just don't see the need to have bump stocks. As a civilian, what is the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 As a means of household defense, I'm all for a mechanism that will rapidly spray bullets in almost random directions. 1 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said: As a means of household defense, I'm all for a mechanism that will rapidly spray bullets in almost random directions. i would generally agree with the sarcasm but most of what i'm reading says the bump stocks are actually pretty accurate; relative to true automatic fire accuracy, that is. given my understanding of the mechanism, it makes sense. the ar15's gas recoil system is supposedly pretty light, so utilizing that to fire round after round probably is pretty accurate (relatively speaking) so long as you spend some time practicing with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, tshile said: the bump stocks are actually pretty accurate; relative to true automatic fire accuracy, that is. Maybe 223/556? I'd think full auto/bump fire 762 would kick like a mule. Though I've never fired anything bump fire before. I know the custom bump stock eats much of the recoil, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 1 minute ago, youngchew said: Maybe 223/556? I'd think full auto/bump fire 762 would kick like a mule. Though I've never fired anything bump fire before. I know the custom bump stock eats much of the recoil, but still. No idea. I'm basing it off some light reading. I've never fired anything with it. I'm sure it's something that would be fun to try once, but I otherwise have no real desire in regards to those things. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, tshile said: No idea. I'm basing it off some light reading. I've never fired anything with it. I'm sure it's something that would be fun to try once, but I otherwise have no real desire in regards to those things. Me neither And I was going to say the same thing. Probably fun to do a couple times, but seems like a waste of ammo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I don't have an answer, but the question is, here we are in America and we have a ridiculously disproportioned percentage of mass shootings... what the hell is wrong with us? Why us? What is it that is causing this? I get the idea that guns are inanimate objects and don't kill. People do. But why do we have this disproportionate number of incidents? People say gun laws only keep these weapons out of the hands of criminals. Again, I don't know the answer, all those counter arguments make sense. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, codeorama said: I don't have an answer, but the question is, here we are in America and we have a ridiculously disproportioned percentage of mass shootings... what the hell is wrong with us? Why us? What is it that is causing this? I get the idea that guns are inanimate objects and don't kill. People do. But why do we have this disproportionate number of incidents? People say gun laws only keep these weapons out of the hands of criminals. Again, I don't know the answer, all those counter arguments make sense. Well its because we allow anyone who wants a gun to have one. Plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Just a little "good guy with a gun" story to remind people it does happen. http://fox17.com/news/local/tennessee-city-honors-young-man-who-stopped-gunman-in-nashville-church-shooting 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 47 minutes ago, codeorama said: I don't have an answer, but the question is, here we are in America and we have a ridiculously disproportioned percentage of mass shootings... what the hell is wrong with us? Why us? What is it that is causing this? I get the idea that guns are inanimate objects and don't kill. People do. But why do we have this disproportionate number of incidents? People say gun laws only keep these weapons out of the hands of criminals. Again, I don't know the answer, all those counter arguments make sense. we have a mental health problem, we have a problem doing the things to try to keep guns out of the wrong peoples' hands (seriously, go look up all the work the NRA has done to hurt the ATF's ability to police the gun dealer industry), we have a culture that glorifies guns (movies, music, video games), we have an economic problem where segments of the population are falling further and further behind, we have a community problem where more and more people are not really members of their community, we have a bullying problem, we have an access to guns problem, we have advances in guns that allow for indiscriminate killing or many people in crowded areas and our politicians are bought and paid for by lobbyists and special interest groups, thrive on controversy without actually doing anything about a particular issue, and in many cases don't seem very informed on those issues and our voter base is full of misinformed or uneducated people that are more interested in defending their rhetoric than being a net-contributor to political discourse (listening to experts, open to different opinions, etc), and are susceptible to good-sounding arguments that fit their bias as opposed to actually well founded and reasoned arguments supported by facts, data, and sound logic. many of the problems that have led to this can be found in other areas, like why are young men more likely to be radicalized these days? when you step back and look at the bigger picture it's really quite sad and scary, because I don't see how you get the nation to have real, meaningful self reflection on this, and that must be done before any real change can take place. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooHog Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 37 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Just a little "good guy with a gun" story to remind people it does happen. http://fox17.com/news/local/tennessee-city-honors-young-man-who-stopped-gunman-in-nashville-church-shooting How many “good guys with guns” would’ve been shot during the LV incident? Probably would depend on how many were non-white. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) careful - don't want to pull a muscle trying to get your rhetoric into play Edited October 4, 2017 by tshile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Its not that hard. The easier guns are to access, the more likely you are to have massive gun violence. Look at all the countries that passed massive gun control legislation. Sudden drop in gun violence to almost nil. Don't overthink it. It's a horse, not a zebra. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Warhead36 said: Its not that hard. The easier guns are to access, the more likely you are to have massive gun violence. Look at all the countries that passed massive gun control legislation. Sudden drop in gun violence to almost nil. It's not as easy as just banning guns and problem solved. To name just a few obstacles: there are 300 million privately owned guns in the country already. The right to bear arms is built into the constitution itself. And the party that will absolutely not pass any form of gun control (and is actively trying to undo existing regulations) is currently in control of every branch of the Federal government as well as most state governments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 yeah you can say it's not that hard, but all that means is you haven't really thought that much about it. removing guns from society isn't an option barring a significant culture shift. sorry, your easy solution isn't something that can implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Llevron said: Well its because we allow anyone who wants a gun to have one. Plain and simple. The very smart people at Harvard looked at this question. Turns out your right. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 18 minutes ago, MartinC said: The very smart people at Harvard looked at this question. Turns out your right. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/ Clearly I am also a very smart person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 2 hours ago, tshile said: when you step back and look at the bigger picture it's really quite sad and scary, because I don't see how you get the nation to have real, meaningful self reflection on this, and that must be done before any real change can take place. You are saying we have a culture problem and not a gun problem. Almost as if gun violence like this is a symptom and not the actual problem. That's actually a very good vantage point. I had not seen it that way previously but I think I agree with you. Damn. That is scary. 31 minutes ago, tshile said: yeah you can say it's not that hard, but all that means is you haven't really thought that much about it. removing guns from society isn't an option barring a significant culture shift. sorry, your easy solution isn't something that can implemented. Right cause we ain't about to change our culture. The NFL protests are a clear and easy example. Anything that threatens 'MURICA is the enemy and to be resisted at all cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 2 hours ago, HooHog said: How many “good guys with guns” would’ve been shot during the LV incident? Probably would depend on how many were non-white. Did I say that a good guy with a gun have helped during the LV incident? No. Actually a few pages back I said EXACTLY the opposite. But thanks for trying to disprove a point I wasn't making while also throw in a little bit of rhetoric about racism. I'm curious why you didn't throw in something about the GOP in there. You could have gotten the "this is why conservatives don't listen to me" trifecta. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Llevron said: You are saying we have a culture problem and not a gun problem. Almost as if gun violence like this is a symptom and not the actual problem. That's actually a very good vantage point. I had not seen it that way previously but I think I agree with you. Damn. That is scary. I think we have a culture problem that prevents us from having an honest and meaningful discussion about our gun problem. And about a lot of other problems we have; police, general racial/ethnic/religious tensions, poverty or other economic issues, etc. The same barriers show up all over the place. The bonding moment following a national tragedy has become a very short-lived thing - within hours everyone's back in their trenches. There's so many thoughtful ways to discuss these topics and so much common ground to find and start with. Yet look how majority of the discussions go. Look what you see on TV from the media and our political leaders. People don't understand statistics, they don't understand research, they don't understand whatever the topic at hand is (in this case guns, look at how much crap people say that just isn't true about guns, rights, the history of this country, or data.) Worse, they lack empathy or the ability to consider any perspective other than their own. 12 million people in this country think there's an alien species of lizardmen who have assumed human form and are living amongst us. We're a country full of stupid, selfish people and our political establishment is void of any real leadership. We're a rudderless ship and have been for a while. Edited October 4, 2017 by tshile 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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