Kosher Ham Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Obviously a couple days behind by reading some comments on 6/21. Suicide should count ? Nope. Method of execution is irrelevant at that point. To blame that on guns is absurd. Same people that let their kids do whatever the heck they want, and turn around and say kids are going to be kids. Take away guns...they will simply start jumping off of buildings and such. Those people do NOT want to be saved, and where does it become our responsibility to save them ? Before it gets to that point. That is not even a gun issue to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Constitution guarantees a right to a speedy trial, explicit terms. Not sure it guarantees a speedy gun purchase. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I assume you feel the same way about the NSA spying on you, right? Got nothing to hide, so nothing will get picked up. Amazing how opinions change when it is a right you don't feel as strongly about. I'm raising this point because it's what I hear the Right saying all the time, just like you quoted in your post. I personally have a big problem with the "if you have nothing to hide" argument because it's used to dilute our personal freedom especially with regard to search and seizure. Look how the Right-leaning Supremes have eroded that right over the years in favor of the police. My post was using that argument in a sarcastic way. But I see no problem with putting some restrictions on buying weapons that can be used to kill people. And why should non-military people have access to military grade weapons? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 We take away a felon's right to purchase and own guns, so there are indeed restrictions on the 2nd Amendment. It's a matter of what restrictions we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I'm raising this point because it's what I hear the Right saying all the time, just like you quoted in your post. I personally have a big problem with the "if you have nothing to hide" argument because it's used to dilute our personal freedom especially with regard to search and seizure. Look how the Right-leaning Supremes have eroded that right over the years in favor of the police. My post was using that argument in a sarcastic way. But I see no problem with putting some restrictions on buying weapons that can be used to kill people. And why should non-military people have access to military grade weapons? Like my husband says...we have a lot more sand on this planet than wood, so why didn't we make houses of glass? Privacy isn't specifically guaranteed in the Constitution, but the pursuit of happiness is. And if your happiness is privacy, you should have it. (Jeez, I can't believe I'm trying to make this argument yet again.) And spot on, LSF, about the military grade weapons. They are specifically designed for hunting people. Why would anyone other than a KILLER need or want one? *I'll give Lindsey Graham's firing gloves & bonnet a pass, as he's a bit conflicted anyway, LOL* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofSparta Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) 1). How many people got killed with a ballot, last year? Directly? Like, murdered by a piece of paper? Probably nobody. Indirectly/metaphorically? Probably a whole bunch. Mostly foreigners though, so it's fine. -Though, to be fair, a bet of bunch of them were killed directly by our guns too, so I guess it's a wash? Edited June 23, 2016 by GhostofSparta 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MintHillSkinsFan Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I know I'm late to this thread but "military grade" weapons are already illegal for private citizens to own. You can't walk into Bass Pro Shops and buy a rocket launcher or a case of hand grenades or even an AUTOMATIC RIFLE. Those are military weapons and are illegal. People are way too hung up on what a rifle looks like. If you can only fire one shot with one pull of the trigger then it is not an automatic rifle and not a military weapon. Whether an AR-15 looks like an M16 is irrelevant. With that being said, I have no problem undergoing a stronger background check if I want to purchase any firearm. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I know I'm late to this thread but "military grade" weapons are already illegal for private citizens to own. You can't walk into Bass Pro Shops and buy a rocket launcher or a case of hand grenades or even an AUTOMATIC RIFLE. Those are military weapons and are illegal. People are way too hung up on what a rifle looks like. If you can only fire one shot with one pull of the trigger then it is not an automatic rifle and not a military weapon. Whether an AR-15 looks like an M16 is irrelevant. With that being said, I have no problem undergoing a stronger background check if I want to purchase any firearm. Modifications can be made. Surely you're aware? If not, please don't purchase any weapon ever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) Registration and insurance are the only sensible actions. I have to think that's where we're going to wind up anyway. Personal accountability. Certainly falls within the well regulated concept. As a gun owner I have no issue with either and I'm not paranoid enough to think it will lead to confiscation. Edited June 23, 2016 by KAOSkins 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 And spot on, LSF, about the military grade weapons. They are specifically designed for hunting people. Why would anyone other than a KILLER need or want one? Well I don't recall the Constitution giving gun rights so we can hunt deer........... Modifications can be made. Surely you're aware? If not, please don't purchase any weapon ever. Out of curiosity, do you have any clue what it would take to convert a modern AR-15 to an automatic weapon? And what the reliability of that weapon would be unless you changed a bunch of other parts also? And how much that would all cost? And just how illegal it is? And how far up your backside the ATF and FBI would be if you got caught? If not, please don't purchase any weapon ever. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 "military grade" and "modifications can be made" Oy vey Well I don't recall the Constitution giving gun rights so we can hunt deer........... The founding fathers foresaw the invasion species they would become Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 "military grade" and "modifications can be made" Oy vey e So much time spent arguing over whether or not a rifle is fully automatic.... And it's a complete waste. Most people will have a lot better luck massacring 2nd graders with semi auto rather than full auto. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Personal accountability. Certainly falls within the well regulated concept. As a gun owner I have no issue with either and I'm not paranoid enough to think it will lead to confiscation. BOOM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 So much time spent arguing over whether or not a rifle is fully automatic.... And it's a complete waste. Most people will have a lot better luck massacring 2nd graders with semi auto rather than full auto. so we are going to ban shotguns now?....or just the scary black ones 2nd graders is a rather low bar, which is where the good guy with a gun factors 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 But it wasn't inconsequential. It may have been less then the Left wanted but it was still something meaningful. I won't get into the assault weapon ban example because I suspect we have different opinions on why it was pointless. Realistically, it is hard to determine if it would be significantly consequential or not. As near as I can tell, the law would not have prevented any murder or even more generally any gun crime that has been committed. And as such it is unlikely we'd look back in 4 or 5 years and was it had a positive effect. Now, it is always possible that tomorrow somebody will shoot something up that the law would have triggered something to prevent them from doing it, but given my understanding of the law and history that seems unlikely. Well I don't recall the Constitution giving gun rights so we can hunt deer........... Out of curiosity, do you have any clue what it would take to convert a modern AR-15 to an automatic weapon? And what the reliability of that weapon would be unless you changed a bunch of other parts also? And how much that would all cost? And just how illegal it is? And how far up your backside the ATF and FBI would be if you got caught? If not, please don't purchase any weapon ever. http://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/guns/new-trigger-makes-ar-15s-nearly-full-auto/ (I know it isn't truly fully automatic, but I think the difference is relatively small in terms of killing people and it i is legal.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MintHillSkinsFan Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 so we are going to ban shotguns now?....or just the scary black ones Only if the have a front hand grip or a rail for a scope since that would make them (look) "military grade"......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) Obviously a couple days behind by reading some comments on 6/21. Suicide should count ? Nope. Method of execution is irrelevant at that point. To blame that on guns is absurd. Same people that let their kids do whatever the heck they want, and turn around and say kids are going to be kids. Take away guns...they will simply start jumping off of buildings and such. Those people do NOT want to be saved, and where does it become our responsibility to save them ? Before it gets to that point. That is not even a gun issue to me. blc05 addressed this directly. It just isn't true. People that suffer from depression and have easy access to a gun are much more likely to successfully commit suicide then those that don't. Privacy isn't specifically guaranteed in the Constitution, but the pursuit of happiness is. This isn't true. You've mixed the Constitution up with the Deceleration of Independence. Edited June 23, 2016 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 so we are going to ban shotguns now?....or just the scary black ones 2nd graders is a rather low bar, which is where the good guy with a gun factors I've heard the "scary looking" argument a quite a bit and it annoys me every time because frankly it's bull****. The AR15 isn't an issue because it's "scary looking." It's an issue because a single person can fire hundreds/thousands of rounds with minimal reloading time. This conversation was decent a few pages ago. We were discussing real, actual ideas that could do some good. Now it's back to the same old NRA bull****. Just need more guns to solve our gun problem. And military style guns are totally cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 blc05 addressed this directly. It just isn't true. People that suffer from depression and have easy access to a gun are much more likely to successfully commit suicide then those that don't. This isn't true. You've missed the Constitution up with the Deceleration of Independence. and most that try ,keep trying....80% of the people who die from suicide have made at least one previous attempt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 blc05 addressed this directly. It just isn't true. People that suffer from depression and have easy access to a gun are much more likely to successfully commit suicide then those that don't. And our responsibility to prevent that is for what reason ? I am not one that believes every life is to be saved. Those that want to die should be allowed to. Sure they may have issues. My point is, none of that has anything to do with guns. Those are issues that should have been addressed regardless of a gun. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 People who choose to modify don't care about cost or legality. And the alphabet soup is already up everyone's backside...or hadn't you heard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Someone fill me in why the Republicans don't want to put their vote on the record regarding Gun Control? They're all pretty vocal about it. Not sure what the difference is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 This isn't true. You've mixed the Constitution up with the Deceleration of Independence.Yes, "deceleration" is exactly how I would describe it as well. And "oops" on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) And our responsibility to prevent that is for what reason ? I am not one that believes every life is to be saved. Those that want to die should be allowed to. Sure they may have issues. My point is, none of that has anything to do with guns. Those are issues that should have been addressed regardless of a gun. Because it has societal costs that affects us all because of issues like kids end up growing up without a parent who if got proper medical care could be an effective parent and things like that? (Whether we should do things to prevent people that have a disease that they can recover from with help (which depression is) from killing themselves is a more complex question that gets into ethical and morality issues. But the basic idea of well, if they didn't have gun they would just use something else is as close to a factually incorrect you can get given the current information.) Edited June 23, 2016 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) And our responsibility to prevent that is for what reason ? I am not one that believes every life is to be saved. Those that want to die should be allowed to. Heaven forbid your adamance is ever tested. Edited June 23, 2016 by KAOSkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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