The Gun Control Debate Thread

[China]

Shocking moment a homeowner pulls a gun on teens who attempt to rob him as he waters his lawn - before one of the suspects, 15, is shot by another neighbor while fleeing through their backyard

 

This is the moment a homeowner pulled his gun on two teens who tried to rob him in his own front yard.

 

The suspects had allegedly been terrorizing the Tulsa, Oklahoma, with a spate of robberies on Wednesday, when they approached the victim. 

 

Surveillance footage, shot from a doorbell camera, showed the man, who is not named, responding by casually pulling a gun out of his pocket and aiming it at the two robbers who fled to their car. 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7290183/Armed-Tulsa-Homeowner-Confronts-Robbery-Suspects.html#v-5708615480583473299

 

Police caught up with the getaway car as the suspects were fleeing the scene, and there was a brief chase before the teens crashed.

 

Andrew Payton, 20, and a 17-year-old were arrested at the scene of the crash but their 15-year-old accomplice fled. 

 

The teen was running through a neighbor's backyard when he opened fire on him. The juvenile is not seriously injured.

 

Zachariah Cook claimed that the boy was running at him when he shot him, then refused to speak any more to the cops.

 

He has been arrested on a complaint of shooting with intent to kill. Police said there is a chance the homeowner used justified force, and the judge may decide to drop the charge.

 

Click on the link for the full article and video

[China]

Another good guy with a gun?

 

Camper: Alleged Bigfoot sighting prompts gunfire at park

 

CAVE CITY, Ky. (AP) — Federal officials are investigating a report that a man fired a gunshot while camping at Mammoth Cave National Park, an incident that another camper says was prompted by an alleged sighting of Bigfoot.

 

Mammoth Cave said law enforcement rangers responded early Sunday to a report of a person with a firearm at one of the Kentucky park’s backcountry campsites.

 

Brad Ginn told news outlets he and his girlfriend were camping nearby and were awakened about 1 a.m. by a man with his son. The man said they were going to investigate strange noises he kept hearing. Ginn said he heard a gunshot minutes later and the man returned to say Bigfoot had emerged from the woods, so he fired.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Well... i think the fact that he had faster access to a gun that he had to his smartphone’s camera says a lot about the state of gun control in this country.  

Edited August 2, 2019 by CousinsCowgirl84

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

[Warhead36]

The NRA is a terrorist organization.

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

^^^in my opinion, they don't.  But has one ever been used in a mass shooting?  I can't recall.

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

 

 

 

[No Excuses]

4 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

^^^in my opinion, they don't.  But has one ever been used in a mass shooting?  I can't recall.

 

It was used in Dayton.

[Larry]

6 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

Claymore.  

 

[Bozo the kKklown]

 

 

 

 

Quote

No other developed country has anywhere near this level of both gun violence and mass shootings. A 2016 study, “Mass Shootings: Media, Myths, and Realities,” found that between 2000 and 2014, the United States had 133 mass shootings, while Finland had just two (killing 18 people in total) and Switzerland had one mass shooting (killing 14 in total). In 2019, America has had more mass shootings than days. In The Atlantic, David Frum, like so many other commentators, called it “a uniquely American determination to ignore the obvious,” pointing out that nations like Italy are home to white supremacists and even fascistic leaders, but not mass shootings. “More guns, more killing. Fewer guns, less killing,” he wrote in conclusion. “Everybody else has figured that out. Americans—and only Americans—refuse to do so.”

 

That’s not quite right, however. For all the talk of America’s obsession with guns and propensity for violence, only 30 percent of Americans actually own them, according to Pew Research. A solid majority—57 percent of Americans—support stricter gun laws, with 80 percent of Democrats and Democrat-leaning independents versus 28 percent of Republicans. Blue states, like California, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Connecticut, Maryland, Hawaii, and New York, have passed stricter gun-control laws—and even though it’s relatively easy to purchase firearms and bring them across state lines, those states have lower rates of gun violence than those with lax standards, according to the Giffords Law Center. On the federal level, the Democrat-controlled House of Representatives passed two bipartisan gun-control bills earlier this year: H.R. 8 (a bill prohibiting person-to-person firearms transfer unless a background check can be performed) and H.R. 1112 (a bill extending the time firearms dealers have to wait for a response on background checks to 10 days).

 

That legislation has been held up in the Republican-controlled Senate, where Majority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky has not brought them to the floor for a vote. It is not merely a problem of obstructionism at the federal level either. Nine of the ten states with the highest gun-death rates—Montana, Wyoming, Alaska, Missouri, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and West Virginia—have both Republican-controlled state legislatures and weak gun laws. So it is not, as Frum asserts, that “Americans express befuddlement, and compete to devise ever more far-fetched answers.” It is largely a Republican determination to do so.

 

Read the rest here: GQ - America’s Mass Shooting Epidemic Is the Result of Republican Minority Rule

[Bozo the kKklown]

 

 

Link for think for those that cannot click through my post

https://www.gq.com/story/americas-mass-shooting-republican-rule

[twa]

 

[tshile]

Last paragraph is key

 

Quote

In order for them to be willing to do so, gun owners need assurance that liberal gun reform advocates will not march down a slippery slope from red-flag laws, regulating semi-automatic weapons and large capacity magazines and closing the gun-show loophole to intrusive regulations that start to break down a culture that millions of people value greatly—one that enriches their lives and whose roots go back before America's founding.

 

 

I dont know how you do that. In addition to the NRA and it’s various allies pushing that this ultimately will happen, there is a strong and growing contingent within the pro-control movement pushing repeal of the 2nd amendment. 

 

Ive seen quite a few posters here bounce back and forth between “no one wants to take your guns away” and “repeal the second”. 

 

So pretending that there isn’t a strong and large group of people that see universal background checks and red flag laws as just a start to implementing a long list of regulations (up to and including outright repeal of the 2nd) is silly and fooling no one. 

 

You can’t have it both ways. You can’t spend time demeaning everyone that supports gun rights, mocking everyone that owns guns (and plenty of you here do all of that), and pasting hashtags about repealing the second amendment (some of you do this too) then go on about how it’s not a slippery slope and people concerned about the desire endgame are crazy, paranoid, etc. 

 

 

[mcsluggo]

[TradeTheBeal!]

If the “NRA and it’s various allies” are pushing a specific “slippery-slope” narrative, then any reasonable, sane person can comfortably assume that such a narrative will never come to pass and has no actual basis in reality...considering the source.  

 

In the end, one either has the fortitude and intellectual courage to rise above the fear-mongering or you’ll be left paralyzed by it and unable to see a way forward.  Which is the very specific intent of such fear-mongering.

[twa]

Rising above the fearmongering from both sides would be good.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Good point, bothsidesbot.

[twa]

4 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Good point, bothsidesbot.

 

I'll consider the source.

[No Excuses]

The tide is turning. It's slow but it's going against the bull**** narrative that the extremists have been pushing for the past decade.

 

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

8 minutes ago, twa said:

 

I'll consider the source.

 

Thats very encouraging.

[visionary]

1 hour ago, tshile said:

Last paragraph is key

 

 

 

I dont know how you do that. In addition to the NRA and it’s various allies pushing that this ultimately will happen, there is a strong and growing contingent within the pro-control movement pushing repeal of the 2nd amendment. 

 

Ive seen quite a few posters here bounce back and forth between “no one wants to take your guns away” and “repeal the second”. 

 

So pretending that there isn’t a strong and large group of people that see universal background checks and red flag laws as just a start to implementing a long list of regulations (up to and including outright repeal of the 2nd) is silly and fooling no one. 

 

You can’t have it both ways. You can’t spend time demeaning everyone that supports gun rights, mocking everyone that owns guns (and plenty of you here do all of that), and pasting hashtags about repealing the second amendment (some of you do this too) then go on about how it’s not a slippery slope and people concerned about the desire endgame are crazy, paranoid, etc. 

 

 

There’s a difference between some posters on Extremeskins saying something and important politicians proposing something.  I’ve yet to see many important gun control advocates call for repealing the second amendment.  Of course there could be a day where the public feels differently enough that guns become a thing of the past, but I doubt it would be anytime soon.

Edited August 6, 2019 by visionary

[PleaseBlitz]

14 hours ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

 

 

This seems to cut against the argument that automatic weapons are no more dangerous than knives, cars, and I believe someone on here (twa) has argued coffee tables .....

8 minutes ago, visionary said:

There’s a difference between some posters on Extremeskins saying something and important politicians proposing something.  I’ve yet to see many important gun control advocates call for repealing the second amendment.  Of course there could be a day where the public feels differently enough that guns become a thing of the past, but I doubt it would be anytime soon.

 

The way that overwhelming public opinion gets to "repeal the second amendment" if for gun groups to kill all moderate and reasonable intermediate reforms like universal background checks.  

 

If I'm a gun owner, I'd be very supportive of gun control measures that wouldn't affect me, a law-abiding citizen.