The Gun Control Debate Thread

[twa]

43 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Not mine.  Trying to sell an AR right now and no biters.  Whether or not the concern was real, Trump has driven the prices down now because people are less worried about the government coming to take their guns.

 

How old are you?  I'm only asking because I want to see aged based opinions on the AWB.  I'm 37 so I was just really starting to learn about guns right when it came into effect.

 

I'm 58 and think the AWB was simply a nuisance, and it certainly didn't stop people I know from getting comparable weapons.

 

I'll give you $250 for it....delivered 

[Hooper]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

New Zealand has a more competent govt. than America.

 

New freaking Zealand.

New Freaking Zealand is amazing.

 

It's like America except 100 times nicer.

 

I highly recommend visiting and going from one side of the country to the next. Holy smokes, best trip of my life. 

 

There's a reason every billionaire has a house there. Spectacularly beautiful and full of nice people. 

Edited March 21, 2019 by Hooper

[visionary]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/21/new-zealand-brings-in-sweeping-gun-law-changes-in-wake-of-christchurch-attacks?CMP=share_btn_tw

Quote

Assault rifles and military-style semi-automatics have been banned in New Zealand after Jacinda Ardern, the prime minister, announced sweeping and immediate changes to gun laws following the Christchurch mosque shootings.

 

“I absolutely believe there will be a common view amongst New Zealanders, those who use guns for legitimate purposes, and those who have never touched one, that the time for the mass and easy availability of these weapons must end. And today they will,” said Ardern.

 

Parts that are used to convert guns into military-style semi-automatics (MSSAs) have also being banned, along with high-capacity magazines and parts that cause a firearm to generate semi-automatic, automatic or close-to-automatic gunfire.

 

Quote

The ban on the sale of the weapons came into effect at 3pm on Thursday – the time of the press conference announcing the ban – with the prime minister warning that “all sales should now cease” of the weapons.

 

Ardern also directed officials to develop a gun-buyback scheme for those who already own such weapons. She said “fair and reasonable compensation” would be paid.

 

The buyback scheme is estimated to cost between NZ$100m and NZ$200m (£52m-£105m). Ardern said the government was still working out how to fund it.

 

New Zealand, a country of fewer than 5 million people, has an estimated 1.2-1.5m firearms. The number of MSSA weapons is not known, but there are 13,500 firearms that require the owner to have an E-category licence, which the government is using to estimate the number of MSSAs.

Quote

The announcement was welcomed by the New Zealand opposition leader Simon Bridges, who said his National party would “work constructively with the government” on the issue.

 

“We agree that the public doesn’t need access to military-style semi-automatic weapons. National supports them being banned along with assault rifles,” he said.

 

Quote

“These are weapons that have been used to slaughter innocent children, women and men while they were at their most vulnerable – at prayer. It is a move we, as a community, can be proud of,” said Chris Cahill, president of the Police Association.

 

New Zealand’s police commissioner, Mike Bush, urged people to surrender to police any weapons that had been reclassified as illegal.

 

Police are asking people to contact them online to register firearms they need to surrender. Those who prefer not to do this online can call 0800 311 311. Bush urged New Zealanders not to walk into a police station carrying their weapon without calling ahead and warning police first.

 

“The first step is to encourage people to do it voluntarily,” said Bush. “I’m sure that the majority of people will do so. We will then be working with people to ascertain if they haven’t complied and once that period of grace or amnesty goes those people can, and in all likelihood will be prosecuted.”

 

One of the challenges facing New Zealand as it seeks to close loopholes in its gun laws and recover the now-banned weapons, is that it does not have a centralised register of guns in circulation.

A second series of reforms will be presented to cabinet on Monday, including issues such as licensing, registration and storage.

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by visionary

[tshile]

They're about 5x the size of fairfax county.

 

I think we could do a lot of things if our country was that size, that we can't do now and might not ever be able to do.

 

I'm happy for them but I'm not really impressed they were able to do this. We have plenty of states with larger populations that have passed pretty strict rules (compared to the rest of the country.)

[TheGreatBuzz]

I still want to see the actual definitions.  I feel like this should be easier.

[Springfield]

So I’m here at the gym listening to Tupac while I work out (I switch it up every day, but today is Tupac).  All Eyez On Me - 1996.

 

Tupac rapping about AR-15’s all the way back then.  Man was ahead of his time.  I don’t think he was talking about hunting deer or protecting his kids either...

[tshile]

I wonder how effective a tax would be on owning a <insert class of weapon here> would be. 

 

So say gas powered weapons is a 1k/year tax. 

 

Or you could do semi auto rifles. Or all semi autos. Where ever you want to draw the line. 

 

As as I said earlier, I think the cheapness of the ar-15 has been a huge contributor to the gun culture. 

 

There’s an issue of enforcing it. But in a hypothetical conversation I would only be interesting in assuming it was effectively followed/enforced. 

[twa]

excessively taxing a right probably would not pass legal muster

[TheGreatBuzz]

11 minutes ago, tshile said:

I wonder how effective a tax would be on owning a <insert class of weapon here> would be. 

 

So say gas powered weapons is a 1k/year tax. 

 

Or you could do semi auto rifles. Or all semi autos. Where ever you want to draw the line. 

 

As as I said earlier, I think the cheapness of the ar-15 has been a huge contributor to the gun culture. 

 

There’s an issue of enforcing it. But in a hypothetical conversation I would only be interesting in assuming it was effectively followed/enforced. 

Yea I don't think that would work.  It would be seen as trying to only allow the wealthy to have X type weapon.  While a vote doesn't kill thousands of people each year (though a debate could be had there), it would be seen as the same as a poll tax.

[Burgold]

14 minutes ago, tshile said:

I wonder how effective a tax would be on owning a <insert class of weapon here> would be. 

 

So say gas powered weapons is a 1k/year tax. 

 

Or you could do semi auto rifles. Or all semi autos. Where ever you want to draw the line. 

 

As as I said earlier, I think the cheapness of the ar-15 has been a huge contributor to the gun culture. 

 

There’s an issue of enforcing it. But in a hypothetical conversation I would only be interesting in assuming it was effectively followed/enforced. 

I think applying a sin tax to guns and ammunition is a really interesting idea. I do know a few people who actually quit smoking because they just couldn't afford the habit. 

Edited March 21, 2019 by Burgold

[Captain Wiggles]

13 minutes ago, twa said:

excessively taxing a right probably would not pass legal muster

 

https://www.google.com/amp/nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2019/03/florida-gop-pushes-poll-tax-to-nullify-felon-voting-rights-amendment-four.html

 

[tshile]

29 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Yea I don't think that would work.  It would be seen as trying to only allow the wealthy to have X type weapon.  While a vote doesn't kill thousands of people each year (though a debate could be had there), it would be seen as the same as a poll tax.

Yeah.... I didn’t even think of that. 

 

I was too too busy convincing myself the cheapness of the gun was a big factor. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 minute ago, tshile said:

Yeah.... I didn’t even think of that. 

 

I was too too busy convincing myself the cheapness of the gun was a big factor. 

Dont know how it posted my quote of you before I typed anything. 

 

I wonder if it has ever been looked at the value of each gun used in a mass shooting. 

Edited March 21, 2019 by TheGreatBuzz

[tshile]

44 minutes ago, twa said:

excessively taxing a right probably would not pass legal muster

 

I’m not interested in arguing that because it would be a long drawn out process. 

 

But yeah, that’s a concern  

[twa]

39 minutes ago, clietas said:

 

https://www.google.com/amp/nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2019/03/florida-gop-pushes-poll-tax-to-nullify-felon-voting-rights-amendment-four.html

 

 

Except felons don't have the right to vote......until..... 

 

now if you wanna tax someone who doesn't have the right to buy firearms it might fly....but you seem fond of felons and not inclined to play with them. 😉

 

Quote

 

Here is where things get a little strange. If a state restores a convicted felon's civil rights -- including the right to vote, serve on juries and hold public office -- then the federal ban no longer holds [sources: Luo; 18 USC § 921(a)(33)(B)(ii)]. However, if a state restores a felon's gun rights, but not the other listed rights, then possessing a gun remains a federal crime, and the feds can arrest that person and charge him or her with possession [source: Luo].

https://people.howstuffworks.com/can-felon-own-gun-in-united-states3.htm

 

 

[Springfield]

51 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I think applying a sin tax to guns and ammunition is a really interesting idea. I do know a few people who actually quit smoking because they just couldn't afford the habit. 

 

I know a lot of poor smokers.  In fact, most of the smokers that I know these days are not well to do.

[Captain Wiggles]

2 minutes ago, twa said:

 

Except felons don't have the right to vote......until..... 

 

 

Yes they do. In most states their voting rights are restored after completing their sentence or probation. Which is what amendment 4 in Florida does. Except for sex offenders and murderers.

 

 

 

[twa]

1 minute ago, clietas said:

 

Yes they do. In most states their voting rights are restored after completing their sentence or probation. Which is what amendment 4 in Florida does. Except for sex offenders and murderers.

 

 

 

 

fines and court costs are part of the sentence though, so is it complete w/o doing so?

[Captain Wiggles]

4 minutes ago, twa said:

 

fines and court costs are part of the sentence though, so is it complete w/o doing so?

 

Imo yes its complete. Court costs and fines are just more tactics to disenfranchise the poor. If the judge ordered some restitution that should be part of the sentence tho.

[twa]

2 minutes ago, clietas said:

 

Imo yes its complete. Court costs and fines are just more tactics to disenfranchise the poor. If the judge ordered some restitution that should be part of the sentence tho.

 

the law includes them in the sentencing though.

 

It does suck to be poor and under the laws thumb.....among other things

[Captain Wiggles]

7 minutes ago, twa said:

 

the law includes them in the sentencing though.

 

I thought amendment 4 didnt include anyting about fines and court costs. Which is why the GOP House bill is being pushed.

 

Either way i done derailed this thread enough.

Edited March 22, 2019 by clietas

[bcl05]

The US has approximately 4.4% of the world's population.

 

Of all the children worldwide who died of gun shots in the world, 91% were in the US.  91%.  We should be so ashamed.  We are a pathetic and embarrassing culture that we tolerate this degree of slaughter.   

 

 

Source:  https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(15)01030-X/fulltext

Edited March 22, 2019 by bcl05

[twa]

You have different reporting standards in other countries for such records, but it is certainly a problem here.

Kids shooting kids is certainly far too normal

[China]

I know, let's arm teachers!

 

Blountsville Elementary substitute teacher’s gun accidentally goes off in 1st-grade classroom

 

 

[twa]

1 minute ago, China said:

I know, let's arm teachers!

 

Blountsville Elementary substitute teacher’s gun accidentally goes off in 1st-grade classroom

 

 

 

Preferably not 74 yr old ones