panel Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Because, I really don't know why people are all of the sudden mad at Snyder . What has he done differently in the past few weeks or years to cause this sudden uproar, besides just be the owner of a team that is 3-5 rather than 3-1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman56 Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Because we gave it a few years and now its like: here we go again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy-Jumbo Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Let's face it, there's enough anger to go around. ALL THE WAY AROUND! As far as Snyder goes there's not much to like about the guy beyond his open wallet and who wants such a pariah as the owner of your team? Many people dislike the skins for no other reason than Snyder owns them and that's galling to be sure but many of us have our own reasons to dislike him and the fact that were sooo bad right now gives us all the motivation we need to let it all hang out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidPennSkin Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Snyder's most recent dumb move was to cut Watson and Wuerffel over Spurrier's strong objections. Now we really need Watson to block blitzers, which he was good at, and we need Wureffel to play a game or two and let Ramsey heal up and watch how an experienced (albeit untalented) QB should play in the FunNgun. During the season, the owner/GM needs to let the coach make the decisions on who should be cut. Also, cutting those 2 guys pulls the rug out from under Spurrier with the team, they see that and know that Snyder has Spurrier on a short leash, and they react by not having any respect for their coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Watson a good blocker? thats a bit sketchy. Though we still need: A GM A Coach Better Assistant Coaches I dont know if Snyder is willing to do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidPennSkin Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Originally posted by Equality Watson a good blocker? thats a bit sketchy. The idea comes from several sources including most recentlyJim Ducibella who said in today's article in the Virginian-Pilot: The two best pass-blocking backs Washington has had since Spurrier came — Stephen Davis and Watson — now play elsewhere. None of the remaining backs handle those assignments well, a major cause of Ramsey’s discomfort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Cold Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 i honestly think we're giving way too much credit to watson. he was at best marginally better at blocking than our other backs...not saying much because they all are poor in pass protection. what they all had in common was shiftiness and the ability to catch the ball out of the backfield. if ramsey progresses and doesn't get killed in the process, our ol will only have to block for 3-4 seconds...all that is needed. right now, he's too unsure. if not for his physical ability and heart, we'd be worse off. therefore, a slightly better blocking rb is not our problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Am I just stupid? Sorry, I thought this was a poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Originally posted by Stone Cold i honestly think we're giving way too much credit to watson. he was at best marginally better at blocking than our other backs...not saying much because they all are poor in pass protection. what they all had in common was shiftiness and the ability to catch the ball out of the backfield. if ramsey progresses and doesn't get killed in the process, our ol will only have to block for 3-4 seconds...all that is needed. right now, he's too unsure. if not for his physical ability and heart, we'd be worse off. therefore, a slightly better blocking rb is not our problem Agreed. I'm amazed how people seem to be annointing Kenny Watson the greatest blocking RB of all time .. I'd like to still have him on the roster, but spare me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Watson and Wuerffell aren't the answer. Get realistic. Look, the breakdowns in blocking trace to whoever teaches them blocking. They are so fundamentally BAD at it, that whoever is in charge of teaching it to them is clearly a failure and must go immediately. Snyder has been remarkably stable through this mess, to be quite honest. There's no threats of Spurrier's job, there's only speculation fueled by a COmCast Cable network sports report that keeps the sharks sniffing for blood. The team is struggling, but Snyder's not to blame. The players he bought this offseason are performing. Anyone want to complain about Randy Thomas, even though the OL as a whole has sucked? Anyone want to complain about Coles? How about Hall? Matt Bowen has played like a lower round draft pick occasionally, which is what we gave up to get him. Maybe we could complain about how Snyder should have realized Brandon Noble would destroy hs leg. Sure, he could have done things to help us with pass rush, but truly, with ALL the holes the team had, does anyone think that any other strategy would have filled as many of them as were filled? Sure he could have not signed Fiore, but that's a calculated risk, and really, there isn't that many linemen out there with a few years under their belt that haven't had a surgery or two. It goes with the territory. Mark Schlereth had roughly 4,958 surgeries, but would anyone have argued signing him in his heyday? Fiore was a risk that hasn't worked out, and that happens to every team. Now, if Snyder has indeed stepped in and prevented the firing of Kim Helton, that may be something to complain about, but the reasoning behind it I have to think are grounded in trying to establish some stability. And as much as I want to see Helton ridden out of town on a rail, You can't fault Snyder for that kind of thinking. He may be incorrect in his assesment of that individual, but it goes against the reputation he has of being an impetuous little Napoleon, running around lopping off heads at the slightest breeze. No sir, gents and ladies. The owner is not to blame for the play of this team. He was asked for players, and he provided them, and good ones, too. Granted, he couldn't provide all of them,, not having a pass rush stands out like a sore thumb. But with as MANY holes as this team had, does anyone truly think they could have ALL been filled in one offseason? If it turns out that Spurrier is just going to fail in the NFL and his scheme truly won't work, then YES Snyder is to blame for hiring him in the first place, but it was a decision that seemed really good at the time, and he did what he thought was best, and complaining about that, you'd have to complain about every owner the Redskins ever had except Mr Cooke. (Remember,, this team were the league doormats for almost 40 years until Allen came to town.) As to Kenny Watson... what's he doing for money these days? Movie theatre usher? Squeegee boy? I don't see his butt on any rosters anywhere. But hey,, he could SAVE the Redskins. Come on now. Calm down and see the forest for the trees. Big article in the Post yesterday details the inexperience of the Redskins coaching staff. (As if their inexperience isn't obvious to anyone with eyes.) Clearly adjustments need to be made to staff. But at the same time, if you hire the young new maverick (like Spurrier) then you place a degree of faith in him. If it doesn't work outright, then you have two options. One you can junk it totally, and give up. (at which point you become the impetuous little tyrant everyone thinks you are) Two you can give it time to see if your original trust was well placed. (Guys who are self made billionaires tend to go with choice 2, because most decisions they make have tended to be right anyway, and if they're wrong, they have enough money to overcome what happens). So I say give him the benefit of the doubt. This has been a really bad storm, and so far he's weathered it fairly well from a PR standpoint. That's all he can do during the season ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Fever Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Bang - Watson was picked up by the Bengals. I agree with you though. The addition of Watson and/or Wuerffell would not change where this team is right now at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesome Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Originally posted by MidPennSkin Snyder's most recent dumb move was to cut Watson and Wuerffel over Spurrier's strong objections. Bingo, and now those moves have come back to have a very negative affect on the team and once again shows that this team would benefit from Snyder staying out of his coach's way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Originally posted by Bang Watson and Wuerffell aren't the answer. Get realistic. Bang you are wrong in a way. No they are not the answer to all of our problems, but they do help. Last week we gave up 4 sacks, and each sack was because the RB couldn't block We should have put Sultan on IR or the pratice squad and kept Watson. Now because of both our RB's getting hurt we lost Morton because he tried to play RB last week. This was one of the stupidest moves our FO has ever made. Woeful would have been if not #2 should have been #3. Last year when Woeful played we didn't have the same problems we are having now. He knows the offense as well as OBC. Woeful would have been positive for at least Ramsey to help him on the sidelines and coach him. According to Ramsey's quote the other day it sounded like Rob was no where to be found watching film. I think releasing Rob to get Tim is going to be a blessing in disguise. Woeful would have made Patrick more comfortable with the offense and a buffer with Spurrier. Both of these decisions are on the pathetic football knowledge of our GM :puke: Some people say yes we have drafted good players, but were they good TEAM players. Remember football is a TEAM sport, we have to many "Me" players on our team and that is because our FO only looks at talent not the whole package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OURYEAR#56 Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Damn didnt Snyder just buy the team four years ago. Whats the heck is wrong with you people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Fever Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 I can see your point jbooma and agree that they should not have been cut over Steve's objections but I don't think the addition of either would have been worth a single extra W at this point. A better argument could be made for Wuerffel based on your points but Watson? That's a marginal call. Sure we could use him NOW that we have most of the RBs on the team beat up but how much palying time would he have seen otherwise? Not much I'll bet. This is comming from me, a guy who liked Watson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitnskins Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 It's not even the point of what Bang thinks, or anyone else thinks for that matter..the point is, that's who Spurrier wanted, and didn't get to have on his team because of the owner and Vinny C.......all of you who are saying this and that about Watson are no different than Snyder............but then again, none of you are Head NFL Football coach just like Snyder, which there in lies the problem..........there are a bunch of know it all types around here, just like what we have running the Redskins front office......maybe when Vinny C. Steps down, some oof the people on this board could step right in, and fix all the problems! Let the people who know football, do their jobs!!!! Spurrier has been been successful everywhere he's coached..........even Duke, where he didn't have good talent.......so don't tell me that he can't coach, or that he doesn't know what he's doing!!!! There are plenty of poeple with extensive Pro Backgrounds, that support him! Even if some of the know it alls around here don't!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 I think the difference between Watson and his blocking and what we have now is akin to saying that some duct tape will patch the holes in the dam. It may catch a leak or two, but overall things are so bad I don't know how much difference it makes. One thing I notice is that when teams blitz from the left, often our help chips right. And often they flat out miss. I guess to me the differences between Wuerffel and anyone else don't really matter because nobody back there can stand up long enough to make anything happen. It doesn't matter if Danny knows the offense, because we can't operate it before we get the QB hit. I see your points about Watson, and I liked Watson anyway, see my numerous posts over the summer defending and wanting to keep him (Hell, I thought we shouldn't have made a play for Morton based on what we had in Watson, for which the board duly chastised me ) After it became clear it was between he and McCullough, I felt that McCullough was the better option based on potential. I still do, I think what you see out of Watson now is about as good as he's going to get, while I think McCullough has better raw material to try to mold. Frankly, I think when you get down to your fourth string RB, you have problems anyway. McCullough broke his hand in the game,, so I don't know that we got a fair assessment of him. (I forgot Cincy picked Watson up.) I guess to me, the bottom line was 'can Snyder be the blame', and to me, the problems are so basic, so fundamental, that no, the owner isn't to blame. And I refuse to believe that a backup QB and a backup RB are the big make or break differences. Canidate and Betts also block matador style, and the fact that all of the offense blocks like garbage, including watching guys like Jansen and Samuels regress as they have, that tells me it's clearly whoever is teaching the blocking that is the chief blame, and likely would have regressed Watson's ability too. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Originally posted by MAP16 Bingo, and now those moves have come back to have a very negative affect on the team and once again shows that this team would benefit from Snyder staying out of his coach's way. So then why bother having a GM that stays out of the coach's way? If that's the case, Spurrier should be the head coach AND general manager of the team. Is this what everyone wants? Do we have that much confidence in Spurrier at this point that if he was given completely autonomy to do whatever he wanted to... we'd be in any better position right now? If you are going to criticize Snyder for neglecting the defensive line... I'd hate to see what you'd do to Spurrier for completely neglecting the entire defense. I'm pretty sure Snyder can at least name players on either side of the ball. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Sure Snyder didn't get us a pass rush, but hey,, this is life in the NFL nowadays.. you have such a limited amount of time to build a team, you have to do it in chunks, and last offseason was spent upgrading the overall team speed and the bllocking problemsd (we thought... I don't think it's personel that is the problem) Can't do it ALL overnight. He didn't neglect the DL, just the DE. They signed several DL players before cutting Wilkinson, and before Noble got hurt. I can say they should have drafted DE instead of Jacobs, but hey, overall the offseason still has to be scored a B+ at minimum. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins24 Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Snyder's most recent dumb move was to cut Watson and Wuerffel over Spurrier's strong objections Dumb move? If you think back in the preseason we had 4 backs. Morton Watson Betts and Trung Morton - Return man Betts - 2nd round pick, (semi)power back, looked good in rookie year, many believed to be best of the bunch Trung - Most experienced, came in to be starter?, back typical of fun n gun offense Watson - Was used as trade bait, most people had a feeling he was the odd man out what do you do? As far as Wuerffel... and we need Wureffel to play a game or two and let Ramsey heal up and watch how an experienced (albeit untalented) QB should play in the FunNgun. Well the team hasn't given up on the season yet, so there's no way Danny comes in to play "a game or two". Besides Ramsey can take the beating...Wuerffel cannot. He wouldn't last a series behind our O line. Keeping them would not have made us any better than we are right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Something about those preppie under 40 billionaires that cause the green eyed monster to rear its head if he is associated with the skins but not the 49ers back in the day and he was a dirtbag and law breaker. I like danny we are still under a cloud of bad luck and a funk from the era of he whose name wont be spoken here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Originally posted by Dolemite Let the people who know football, do their jobs!!!! That is what we try to tell the FO but the problem is we don't have anyone working there that fits that category :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 I agree with Die Hard on this one. Unless you let your coach handle all the GM duties himeslf, an approach which hardly ever works by the way, any GM you hire is going to make decisions the HC disagrees with from time to time. This is why Norv and CC weren't speaking to eachother when Snyder bought the team. This is why Beathard left town. This is why Holmgren left Green Bay. Personnel people and coaches clash all the time. Even the best of them. Snyder is perceived as meddling and 'digging a tunnell under Spurrier' or whatever because he's the owner, but if he hired a GM, that GM would be doing the same thing. That's a GM's job. That doesn't mean that I don't want Snyder to actually hire a GM at this point. Just that Spurrier isn't being undercut any more than any other HC who has to deal with a Personnel guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Originally posted by Henry Snyder is perceived as meddling and 'digging a tunnell under Spurrier' or whatever because he's the owner, but if he hired a GM, that GM would be doing the same thing. That's a GM's job. But at least the GM would understand football. That is like me sitting in with a bunch of doctors in a hospital meeting. I can read and learn as much as I could but if i have NO experience I am worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 I agree jbooma. I'd be more comfortable if he hired a GM instead of trying to do it himself. Though it could be argued that Ceratto understands football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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