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US Soccer thread.


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27 minutes ago, DC9 said:

 

You have to have a certain amount of players in the premier league, I think it's 17 of your 52 or something like that.  Is that crap because teams like City are never going to have more than one Brit play in their 11?  Sure, but it's still there.

 

I'm not sure the MLS rules, I'll get more into that next year when DC United open their new stadium.

 

The 'home grown' quota? 

 

PL squads are made up of a maximum 25 over 21-year-old players. (Under 21's at that season age cut off point don't need to be registered as part of the squad.), Of those 25, 8 of those need to be 'home grown.' Which basically means, irrespective of Nationality, they have to of had 3 years before the age of 21 at an English/ Welsh club. 

 

If you can't fulfil that criteria, then you have a smaller squad.

 

Hail. 

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1 hour ago, DC9 said:

It would be AWFUL to have a generation of youngins not have the ability to watch the US play in the world cup.  That is what I mean by death stroke.  It's not like when the US lost in basketball to Argentina or whomever playing mainly college kids and then Coach K and the pros said "enough is enough,' it's the opposite... it's that the "pros," aren't good enough to get it done and the youth that we have to turn to is unseasoned because they've watched from the bench so much.

 

Simply put...How many folks only come in this thread every 4 years?  If the US aren't in the world cup, they aren't here.  The casual interest isn't here.  That means the kids of that casual interest aren't watching and we lose the dreams and aspirations of that generation.  THAT is a death stroke, sir.

Americans dont care that much about the US national team. We have to start understanding that.


We watch the world cup because its a chance to see Cronaldo, Messi Neymar, Iwobi, Aguero, Pogba, Ozil,  etc. The US team missing out does not impact things. The biggest reason for the interest in soccer in this country, in my uneducated opinion, is the FIFA video games. When the US loses in the round of 16, its not like people stop watching the World Cup. The 2014 final was the most watched World Cup final in our history, iirc.

 

1 hour ago, DC9 said:

You're clearly a mature thinker, have you ever developed someone in your line of work?  It's something similar to that. 

 

Friendlies vs Moldova are where you play guys like Birnbaum and Kitchen and Miazga and Bill Hamid.... we were playing Tim Howard and Brooks and Bradley and the same old same olds.  Why?  Because we wanted to get them "reps," together for the next cup competition. 

 

I struggle to see how you say the problem is youth development but you don't see how not getting the caps with the senior team is detrimental.  I agree that development and organization at the lower levels isn't on par with other countries and US Soccer is trying to sort that out now, but the bigger problem is the management of the unseasoned potential YOU HAVE at the senior level. 

I always thought you play friendlies to establish team continuity in a low pressure setting.

 

When I say youth development, I am not talking about when these guys are professionals. I am talking about when they are just learning how to play in an organized setting as adolescents.

 

Again, if the US were so dead-set against young players earning caps, then why the heck is Pulisic already our most important player?

 

I will say it again, I don't think the younger players are anywhere as good as you think.

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1 hour ago, DC9 said:

The Brits will poo poo on us for our knowledge, but the very reason that the premier league has so much money now a days (even more than before) is because of the NBCSN tv contract.

hang on, what?

 

SuperSport in Sub-Saharan Africa is paying more per year and PPTV in China is paying more than SuperSport. 

 

The US Deal is something like 400 million GBP overall.

 

My point is to say that it is not just the US that has inflated the pot, and we arent even the biggest spenders.

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2 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Americans dont care that much about the US national team. We have to start understanding that.


We watch the world cup because its a chance to see Cronaldo, Messi Neymar, Iwobi, Aguero, Pogba, Ozil,  etc. The US team missing out does not impact things. The biggest reason for the interest in soccer in this country, in my uneducated opinion, is the FIFA video games. When the US loses in the round of 16, its not like people stop watching the World Cup. The 2014 final was the most watched World Cup final in our history, iirc.

 

I always thought you play friendlies to establish team continuity in a low pressure setting.

 

When I say youth development, I am not talking about when these guys are professionals. I am talking about when they are just learning how to play in an organized setting as adolescents.

 

Again, if the US were so dead-set against young players earning caps, then why the heck is Pulisic already our most important player?

 

I will say it again, I don't think the younger players are anywhere as good as you think.

 

The average american does not watch the world cup to see Ronaldo or Messi.  People aren't packing in and selling out bars to watch the superstars of other nations.  They watch to support America.  Much like most Americans don't tune in to watch track events but every four years when the olympics come around.  If you amended your first statement to "Americans don't care much about soccer" you'd be more on.  If we miss this world cup it's an absolute detriment to youth development.  People would (somehow) care less about US soccer if we didn't show up on the national stage for 8 straight years (if we qualified next WC, which is shaky considering we are losing a core of solid respectable players).  Kids would be driven away from soccer because "there's just no future for American Soccer, we can't even make the world cup."  Obviously you myself and everyone else in this thread knows the USMNT has nothing to do with potential for wages, but Americans as a whole see it differently.  

 

Youth development certainly is lacking here in the states, no doubt about it.  Our best athletes don't grow up wanting to play soccer, and our best (future) coaches don't grow up wanting to coach soccer.  Jurgen, an international, immediately recognized this.  There is no comparison to international soccer.  Big clubs have youth academies that revolve around soccer, school systems are set up to revolve around soccer, it is their predominant sport.  It is career/livelihood driven for families like American football is here in the states.  Everyone wants to be a part of it from the day they are born basically.  That's not even touching on south america where soccer is literally a way of life and religion.  

 

My own personal take is MLS is doing their best to increase the coverage of our professional soccer league and that this is a good place to start.  We need to bring relevance to the sport in general.  The easiest ways to do that are 1. World Cup USMNT exposure and 2. Popular MLS.  As popularity grows with MLS so does youth development, I firmly believe that.  The model of buying old washed up internationals can only get you so far..we need to raise the competition here in MLS in other ways.  Somehow competing in international tournaments that aren't friendlies would be a great way to do that, but I don't know if it's even possible.  

 

Or..and credit to fanboy, I just saw in the soccer thread about spanish league teams hosting games internationally.  Dude, come to the US we'd love to host.  If we can't raise the perception of the sport through MLS let's do it by hosting big meaningful games from other leagues.  Get the quality of soccer played on US soil UP, and interest goes UP. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by SkinssRvA
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11 minutes ago, SkinssRvA said:

 

The average american does not watch the world cup to see Ronaldo or Messi.  People aren't packing in and selling out bars to watch the superstars of other nations.  They watch to support America.  Much like most Americans don't tune in to watch track events but every four years when the olympics come around.  If you amended your first statement to "Americans don't care much about soccer" you'd be more on.  If we miss this world cup it's an absolute detriment to youth development.  People would (somehow) care less about US soccer if we didn't show up on the national stage for 8 straight years (if we qualified next WC, which is shaky considering we are losing a core of solid respectable players).  Kids would be driven away from soccer because "there's just no future for American Soccer, we can't even make the world cup."  Obviously you myself and everyone else in this thread knows the USMNT has nothing to do with potential for wages, but Americans as a whole see it differently.  

 

Youth development certainly is lacking here in the states, no doubt about it.  Our best athletes don't grow up wanting to play soccer, and our best (future) coaches don't grow up wanting to coach soccer.  Jurgen, an international, immediately recognized this.  There is no comparison to international soccer.  Big clubs have youth academies that revolve around soccer, school systems are set up to revolve around soccer, it is their predominant sport.  It is career/livelihood driven for families like American football is here in the states.  Everyone wants to be a part of it from the day they are born basically.  That's not even touching on south america where soccer is literally a way of life and religion.  

 

My own personal take is MLS is doing their best to increase the coverage of our professional soccer league and that this is a good place to start.  We need to bring relevance to the sport in general.  The easiest ways to do that are 1. World Cup USMNT exposure and 2. Popular MLS.  As popularity grows with MLS so does youth development, I firmly believe that.  The model of buying old washed up internationals can only get you so far..we need to raise the competition here in MLS in other ways.  Somehow competing in international tournaments that aren't friendlies would be a great way to do that, but I don't know if it's even possible.  

 

Or..and credit to fanboy, I just saw in the soccer thread about spanish league teams hosting games internationally.  Dude, come to the US we'd love to host.  If we can't raise the perception of the sport through MLS let's do it by hosting big meaningful games from other leagues.  Get the quality of soccer played on US soil UP, and interest goes UP. 

Agree with 1st paragraph.  Those Americans watching the WC are watching every team but rooting for the US.  We are desperate for the US to compete every 4 years.

 

Agree with 2nd paragraph. 

 

Disagree with some of the 3rd.  The MLS itself is a monopoly and is really only interested in it's best interests. It needs it's top players on the USMNT and has the control to make that happen. Unfortunately that is contrary to WC success.  A true North/South American Champions League would be a great step in the right direction.  Paying washed up internationals is a waste, IMO, but I assume the MLS has run the numbers on it.

 

As said before in this thread, American Soccer needs promotion/relegation to keep everything fresh on the lower end.  

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8 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

Disagree with some of the 3rd.  The MLS itself is a monopoly and is really only interested in it's best interests. It needs it's top players on the USMNT and has the control to make that happen. Unfortunately that is contrary to WC success.  A true North/South American Champions League would be a great step in the right direction.  Paying washed up internationals is a waste, IMO, but I assume the MLS has run the numbers on it.

 

As said before in this thread, American Soccer needs promotion/relegation to keep everything fresh on the lower end.  

Yea if promotion/relegation increases the competition in MLS, thus raising the level of the top league I'm all for it.  MLS has already brought in more south americans than it had, which alone raised it a level.  Lower level competition would definitely get more players involved in professional soccer, but we should make sure it's not just quantity but also quality.  THe top league in MLS would pale in comparison to other international teams though, so we'd never get any real quality in the form of youth for the relegated/lower level sides.  

Edited by SkinssRvA
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3 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Americans dont care that much about the US national team. We have to start understanding that.


We watch the world cup because its a chance to see Cronaldo, Messi Neymar, Iwobi, Aguero, Pogba, Ozil,  etc. The US team missing out does not impact things. The biggest reason for the interest in soccer in this country, in my uneducated opinion, is the FIFA video games. When the US loses in the round of 16, its not like people stop watching the World Cup. The 2014 final was the most watched World Cup final in our history, iirc.

 

Tiger Woods playing well 20 years ago had no effect on why there are so many talented young golfers out there right now.

 

It was just a coincidence. 

 

3 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I always thought you play friendlies to establish team continuity in a low pressure setting.

 

When I say youth development, I am not talking about when these guys are professionals. I am talking about when they are just learning how to play in an organized setting as adolescents.

 

Again, if the US were so dead-set against young players earning caps, then why the heck is Pulisic already our most important player?

 

I will say it again, I don't think the younger players are anywhere as good as you think.

 

I mean, as far as friendlies go, if you look at the way the other countries do it... Ronaldo, Neymar, Messi, unless it's a bigger country they don't usually play at all.

 

Why the **** did you include Iwobi?   :rofl89:

 

I agreed with you on the U6 and U8 and so on as far as development goes.  If you can't see what I'm talking about then I guess it's a fruitless conversation. 

 

Pulisic is obviously a very good player.  But if you don't notice the 10 year gap in "talent," from Dempsey to Pulisic then I'm not sure how else to illustrate my point.  Maybe US Soccer youth coaches took a 10 year hiadus after Donovan came on the scene before they started developing players again... or maybe, just maybe, at the senior level, no one else was getting a chance to play other than the usual suspects?  Can you at least give me that?

 

I'm not sure you've ever built a team or been in charge of anything at this point.  I could be wrong though.  Maybe you've just lucked out and your subordinates have all been tailor made fantastic at what they do and you haven't had to teach or groom anyone.

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7 minutes ago, SkinssRvA said:

The average american does not watch the world cup to see Ronaldo or Messi.

thats just not true.

 

If what you were saying is correct, then ratings would drop after the US were eliminated.

 

NBCSN didnt pay $1 billion to The Premier League to watch Geoff Cameron at Stoke.

 

Americans def

9 minutes ago, SkinssRvA said:

 If we miss this world cup it's an absolute detriment to youth development.

want the US National Team to do well, but its not about them. Its about seeing a galaxy of stars in a one month summer (now winter) tournament. 

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1 hour ago, DC9 said:

Tiger Woods playing well 20 years ago had no effect on why there are so many talented young golfers out there right now.

 

It was just a coincidence. 

hang on, what? When has the US ever produced a Tiger Woods like player? I just named a few big time players in my post and none of them were American.

 

to give some context, Christian Pulisic was just 3 years old when the US went to the World Cup quarterfinals in 2002. I need to know how he can directly relate to that experience.

1 hour ago, DC9 said:

Pulisic is obviously a very good player.  But if you don't notice the 10 year gap in "talent," from Dempsey to Pulisic then I'm not sure how else to illustrate my point.

thats exactly my point.

 

The 15 year gap between the two is what I am getting at with regards to this generation. The 22-26 age group isnt that good. The pool of talent isnt that strong with this group.

 

We saw the same thing in 2006 as well, with only Dempsey emerging.

 

The Jozy/Bradley generation of players carried the US through 2 cycles but they are now cycling out.

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2 hours ago, DC9 said:

I mean, as far as friendlies go, if you look at the way the other countries do it... Ronaldo, Neymar, Messi, unless it's a bigger country they don't usually play at all.

yes they do.

 

Its only smaller countries with big time talents that allow players to take off. Its very rare that players take friendlies off unless there is an injury or you are Germany.

 

You have to remember that international coaches do not get a lot of time with players.

 

The US is very unique though. They have training camps in January every year. That is when these guys get evaluated.

 

Now maybe this age range improves and becomes quality for 2022, or maybe there is a leap in the next 10 months IF the US qualifies for the World Cup, but I really believe you are overrating players.

2 hours ago, DC9 said:

Maybe US Soccer youth coaches took a 10 year hiadus after Donovan came on the scene before they started developing players again... or maybe, just maybe, at the senior level, no one else was getting a chance to play other than the usual suspects?  Can you at least give me that?

Jozy Altidore, Michael Bradley, Alejandro Bedoya, etc all came up and became pillars in the team.

 

edit: forgot to mention that Bobby Wood emerged in this cycle as well.

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1 hour ago, DC9 said:

 

.....

 

 

Currently watching Hamburg- Leipzig to finally run the rule over Keita. (More on him the normal footie thread later. Early impressions- You can sure pick oit a talent lil' bro!). 

 

Just wanted to say ,,,,, Bobby Wood. You need to bin Dempsey the back end/ downside their careers et all and get the likes of this lad in the team with his youthful enthusiasm, pace and passion. And no little ability. Very exciting young man. 

 

Hail. 

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Point of interest- VAR in perfect action the Hamburg- Leipzig match. 

Tackle half time the area that the ref initially gave as a penalty. Went the video assistant. Clearly, the defender won it and it should have been a corner. Overturned. All of 15/20 seconds if that to go to Cologne and get the correct decision. 

How anyone can see this as a bad move for the game is beyond me. Quick. Decisive. The correct decision reached and no arguing the players.

 

Hail. 

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52 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

thats just not true.

 

If what you were saying is correct, then ratings would drop after the US were eliminated.

 

NBCSN didnt pay $1 billion to The Premier League to watch Geoff Cameron at Stoke.

 

Americans def

want the US National Team to do well, but its not about them. Its about seeing a galaxy of stars in a one month summer (now winter) tournament. 

The ratings in the US did drop after we were eliminated in 2014....

 

Bars stop sponsoring World cup events, friends arent gathering around...normal americans are not interested if the US is out.  If you're sticking around to watch Antoine Griezmann and Ngolo Kante it's because you watch soccer already, not because you're rooting for world class players.  

 

6 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

Point of interest- VAR in perfect action the Hamburg- Leipzig match. 

Tackle half time the area that the ref initially gave as a penalty. Went the video assistant. Clearly, the defender won it and it should have been a corner. Overturned. All of 15/20 seconds if that to go to Cologne and get the correct decision. 

How anyone can see this as a bad move for the game is beyond me. Quick. Decisive. The correct decision reached and no arguing the players.

 

Hail. 

Yea but how can you fix matches if there's no "human error" :ols:

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29 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

Point of interest- VAR in perfect action the Hamburg- Leipzig match. 

Tackle half time the area that the ref initially gave as a penalty. Went the video assistant. Clearly, the defender won it and it should have been a corner. Overturned. All of 15/20 seconds if that to go to Cologne and get the correct decision. 

How anyone can see this as a bad move for the game is beyond me. Quick. Decisive. The correct decision reached and no arguing the players.

 

Hail. 

the complaints against VAR is just odd to me.

 

People who love the "human error gives us something to talk about" are folks who dont actually like the sport. Thats my only belief.

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2 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

We saw the same thing in 2006 as well, with only Dempsey emerging.

 

The Jozy/Bradley generation of players carried the US through 2 cycles but they are now cycling out.

 

I've now led you to the forest and we're standing at the edge of it.

 

You cannot see it through the trees, though.

 

That is that then.

2 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Jozy Altidore, Michael Bradley, Alejandro Bedoya, etc all came up and became pillars in the team.

 

edit: forgot to mention that Bobby Wood emerged in this cycle as well.

 

Bedoya wasn't getting regular caps with the team and neither was Bobby Wood.

 

If you read through this thread you'll see me losing my mind over those two players who weren't getting time at the expense of Altidore and Bradley playing as a 10.

 

That's uh.... kind of the whole point of what I'm saying...

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2 hours ago, DC9 said:

I've now led you to the forest and we're standing at the edge of it.

 

You cannot see it through the trees, though.

 

That is that then.

m8, you cant see past it. Idk what to tell you. You keep thinking the younger players will magically get things right and I am telling you that they haven't shown much with their club sides.

 

2 hours ago, DC9 said:

Bedoya wasn't getting regular caps with the team and neither was Bobby Wood.

 

If you read through this thread you'll see me losing my mind over those two players who weren't getting time at the expense of Altidore and Bradley playing as a 10.

 

That's uh.... kind of the whole point of what I'm saying...

Bedoya definitely was getting regular call ups leading up to 2014. He was around the team in 2010, but became a regular in the 2014 cycle. You dont get 60+ call ups and not be a regular.

 

Bobby Wood is a player who emerged in this cycle. He is young, and was trusted. That was my point. There are not many Bobby Wood types in his group.

 

 

Now the other stuff you mentioned, especially the mismanagement of Bradley, then thats something to blame on the managers. I have no problem with that.

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11 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

m8, you cant see past it. Idk what to tell you. You keep thinking the younger players will magically get things right and I am telling you that they haven't shown much with their club sides.

 

Bedoya definitely was getting regular call ups leading up to 2014. He was around the team in 2010, but became a regular in the 2014 cycle. You dont get 60+ call ups and not be a regular.

 

Bobby Wood is a player who emerged in this cycle. He is young, and was trusted. That was my point. There are not many Bobby Wood types in his group.

 

 

Now the other stuff you mentioned, especially the mismanagement of Bradley, then thats something to blame on the managers. I have no problem with that.

 

Getting called up for training and getting reps are two different things. 

 

My point is the difference in talent is not great enough to forcefeed the Bradleys of the world down the 11's throat, but it was done while the Bedoya's and Woods were on the bench or not in the 18.

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As long as we are throwing out names. Why on earth is Aron Johansson in siberia from the USMNT?  He has fallen from favor on his club, mainly due to injury. But that that shouldn't have any bearing on the US squad.  Another example of MLS players seemingly getting preferential nods over an international caught in the politics of a completely dysfunctional club.

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8 hours ago, DC9 said:

 

Getting called up for training and getting reps are two different things. 

 

My point is the difference in talent is not great enough to forcefeed the Bradleys of the world down the 11's throat, but it was done while the Bedoya's and Woods were on the bench or not in the 18.

Getting a cap is playing in a match.

 

And I dont know about your second paragraph. The young guys are not that good.

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Is Bradley still playing every minute of every game at the most important position on the pitch? Then the US will still suck. Jozy is hit and miss, but the man gets on hot streaks and produces at times. Bradley does not, and has never done jack **** for this team, and it's incredulous that the man is never exposed. I swear, for the past 15 years or so I've seen every single player replaced except for this man. He has always sucked. His free kicks suck. His corners suck. Dude is as average-below average as it gets, and whose greatest strength and biggest flaw is both that he is never ever injured to the point of missing time. I don't even know what his role on the pitch is at this point. He was more than a step slow last World Cup, and yet we still have never replaced him for even a minute since. And I'm not even going to talk about the poor defensive line, because it doesn't matter. If your 10 is an uncreative loser like Bradley, you are going to lose to any good team. 

 

Bedoya sucks too... But he can't hold a candle to Bradley 

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1 hour ago, TimmySmith said:

GB Alexi Lalas.  He's 100% right. This team is WAY more talented on paper than any of the USMTs that cruised through qualifying.  They were hungry, these guys aren't.  It's that simple.  

no they aren't

 

and the others nations are better.

 

Lalas is trolling and a showman. He hyped these guys up for years. 

 

Lalas was an overrated player too.

 

 

And this guy talking about "tattooed millionaires"

 

[IMG]

 

 

He is very correct, but he also a clown who is seeking attention.

 

 

 

This is a good convo between Max Bretos and Hercules Gomez on the comments and a deeper topic.

http://www.espnfc.com/united-states/story/3201429/alexi-lalas-blasts-us-national-teams-soft-underperforming-tattooed-millionaires-in-tirade

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