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The Conspiracy Thread


Reaper Skins

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Some points from the Carolina game:

1. Similar to Giants game, refs negate momentum shifting play for Redskins and the team isn't disciplined enough to overcome it. Defense took it as an excuse to give up despite more than a half of football still to play.
http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/redskinsblog/redskins-twitter-goes-nuts-after-refs-negate-culliver-pick-6 (this was considered unnecessary roughnes even though a head to head collision against Jordan Reed earlier in the game was not called)

 

Footage of play 

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/redskins-suffer-consequences-of-yet-another-murky-nfl-rule/

 

2.  Immediatley following this there was another defensive interference penalty called on Jarrett.  Then an incomplete catch ruling was overturned in favor of Carolina to cap a 14 point swing.

3. Cousins fumble seems like his knee was down, didn't look like it was automatically reviewed by officialsCUcJCeQWsAA965w.jpg
Chuck Sapienza @chucksapienza
I never saw Cousins lose possession. Here is a picture with his knee down and both hands on the ball.

 

4.  3 straight discretionary, non reviewable penalties called at the line in the first quarter.  First is a false start, next two are neutral zone infractions.  Takes 5 yards from Carolina, then nullifies it, then gives Carolina 5 more yards.  End result helps Carolina while making the penalty flags seem evenly distributed.  Carolina scores one play later.

 

5.  Huge 23 yard run by Cousins negated by questionable holding call on Jordan Reed.  Kills momentum.  Next play Cousins is sacked and Carolina is awarded the ball.

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From the Twitter thread in regards to inconsistent officiating. Boger was the official for the Redskins Panthers game.


Kevin Seifert@SeifertESPN 44s45 seconds ago
Officials have significant discrepancy in number/type of penalty calls. NFL hopes to limit: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14194817



CUcN3vuU8AA5ePf.png

Article regarding the Culliver interception
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/chris-culliver-has-int-called-back-for-----well--a-really--really-bad-call-193439082.html

and video footage of the play

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/11/22/controversial-call-negates-redskins-touchdown-sets-off-d-c-media-members/

Rob Carlin @RobCarlinCSN
Wow, Jason Hatcher calls out refs in post game interview.. Openly asks if its because of "the name"

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/redskins/2015/11/22/jason-hatcher-referees-officials-washington/76229080/

Chris Baker ‏@cbaker92redskin I know we get fined for some penalties but these refs need to get some serious fines for the terrible calls this is crazy#flagfootball

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Therein lies the issue. There is NO accountability for officiating. They can do a terrible job and nothing happens.

 

The NFL needs to overhaul its officiating. They need to hire young, fresh blood. All these guys now are so damn old. How in the hell do they keep up with the speed of the game? I also think years of reffing has them biased towards/against certain players, teams, coaches, etc. It may be slight but it absolutely exists.

 

I don't think there is any sort of league wide conspiracy, but refs can absolutely be biased or feel the pressure to make a call to favor a certain team because of the home crowd or any other factor. I mean you have guys like Hoculi who you KNOW try their hardest to be in the spotlight as much as possible.

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Gruden said in his press conference on 10/7 that the league admitted that T. Robinson was not at fault for his 2 penalties against the Eagles. Both penalties lead to scoring drives during the game.

Just as a point of reference, the last time Boger's crew officiated a game for us was in week 4 against the Eagles. You'll recall that Trenton Robinson was called for 2 unnecessary roughness calls that both lead to Philadelphia scoring drives.

Both were deemed incorrect calls after the fact by the NFL.

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On Ginn's TD, they completely whiffed on a false start by the RT 74.

 

Just prior to the snap he flinched like he saw a snake.

 

~Bang

 

LT 74... Mr. Michael "Blind Side" Oher.  I said that in the game thread when it happened, too.

 

 

But okay, IF there IS a conspiracy, and we're going for the best narrative... Carolina is showing up to Dallas undefeated.  Tony Romo just came back and he's on a quest to "win the whole ****ing thing".

 

Carolina is going to get screwed on Thursday.  Hard.

 

Then Dallas will be playing us the following week.

 

It's an absolute ESPN orgasm.  "Tony Romo" comes back and leads the Cowboys to two straight wins against Miami and the undefeated Panthers.  Now they start December with something to play for.

 

Watch... we'll be the Giants.  Gotta keep the Giants close so that Dallas can catch them.

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But okay, IF there IS a conspiracy, and we're going for the best narrative... Carolina is showing up to Dallas undefeated.  Tony romoSUCKS just came back and he's on a quest to "win the whole ****ing thing".

 

Carolina is going to get screwed on Thursday.  Hard.

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Just as a point of reference, the last time Boger's crew officiated a game for us was in week 4 against the Eagles. You'll recall that Trenton Robinson was called for 2 unnecessary roughness calls that both lead to Philadelphia scoring drives.

Both were deemed incorrect calls after the fact by the NFL.

 

Oh I brought up that Boger was going to **** us a couple of days ago on the "national TV" thread dude.

 

I'm a mile ahead of your trolley :lol:

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Also, on the play where the Carolina gunner went out of bounds on the punt and came back in, that's supposed to be an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for 15 yards... instead it was something for 5 yards that I'd never heard before.

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Also, on the play where the Carolina gunner went out of bounds on the punt and came back in, that's supposed to be an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for 15 yards... instead it was something for 5 yards that I'd never heard before.

There is a difference between going out of bounds unforced and coming back in and being first to tackle the returner which is a 5 yard penalty and going out running down the sideline and not coming back in immediately which is the 15 yarder

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LT 74... Mr. Michael "Blind Side" Oher. I said that in the game thread when it happened, too.

But okay, IF there IS a conspiracy, and we're going for the best narrative... Carolina is showing up to Dallas undefeated. Tony romoSUCKS just came back and he's on a quest to "win the whole ****ing thing".

Carolina is going to get screwed on Thursday. Hard.

Then Dallas will be playing us the following week.

It's an absolute ESPN orgasm. "Tony romoSUCKS" comes back and leads the Cowboys to two straight wins against Miami and the undefeated Panthers. Now they start December with something to play for.

Watch... we'll be the Giants. Gotta keep the Giants close so that Dallas can catch them.

RT 74 is Mike Remmers and the refs have been screwing Carolina since week 1 and we have still been pulling out the win....I'm sure you haven't watched many Panthers games but in both the Colts and Packers games when we were blowing both teams out, both teams came back in the 4th due to bad calls to keep them in the game....In both games even the announcers and the former officiators that are employed by the networks said the calls were bad including when the replay booths were involved....small market teams have never gotten calls...I know everybody remembers the big stink when Hochuli said Cam wasn't old enough to get calls and ever since then it has gotten even worse....from TDs that were taken away to interceptions that should have never been....Hell in 1 game early in the season Tedd Ginn caught a ball a few yards from the end zone and was tackled where he should have been down by contact, the ref blows the whistle and Ginn let's go of the ball to get up and the CB grabs it and they called it an interception...In the GB game on the Panthers final drive Cam throws a ball, once again to Ginn, and the CB gets a hand on the ball and Ginn hits the ball out of his hands as the CB is going out of bounds with 1 foot out of bounds he still didn't have control of the ball, the announcers said it was obviously moving and that the refs will overturn the INT call...the refs comeback from the replay monitor and call it an INT which set Rodgers in position to try to drive and tie the game....the refs have raped the Panthers all year long and Thanksgiving will be no exception but we should still pull out the win even with Tony Homo back.... Edited by DabbinOnEm
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Nobody here cares what the refs did to the Panthers in the past.

What they did yesterday was atrocious, and while i don't believe in any conspiracy, i do believe in incompetency, and Jerome Boger and his crew has no business reffing any NFL games.

When the officiating is SO bad, SO screwed up that it is national debate every week, and he is the worst, then there's a problem.

 

When it is so lopsidedly bad, it's cause for discussion.

You can't overcome an undefeated team AND an incompetent flag-happy set of refs that see every ticky tack call .. but only on one side of the ball.

Fans pay a lot of money.. be it through tickets or through just plain cable bills to see these games. I pay for TV like everyone else, and 90% of why I do is so i can see these games.

the NFL OWES it to us to be at least competent when it comes to making sure they're played fairly.

 

~Bang

Edited by Bang
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Therein lies the issue. There is NO accountability for officiating. They can do a terrible job and nothing happens.

 

The NFL needs to overhaul its officiating. They need to hire young, fresh blood. All these guys now are so damn old. How in the hell do they keep up with the speed of the game? I also think years of reffing has them biased towards/against certain players, teams, coaches, etc. It may be slight but it absolutely exists.

 

I don't think there is any sort of league wide conspiracy, but refs can absolutely be biased or feel the pressure to make a call to favor a certain team because of the home crowd or any other factor. I mean you have guys like Hoculi who you KNOW try their hardest to be in the spotlight as much as possible.

 

The biggest problem to me over the years has been the move toward more and more subjective officiating that is a natural consequence of rule making that is impossible to get right at the speed with which the NFL game moves.  Every time a receiver gets hit hard over the middle (except last night's Cincy game where a Cardinal player blatantly speared Green and it wasn't called), 10 flags get thrown regardless of whether the hit was clean or not.  The problem with the NFL these days is not so much the refs (they were always mediocre at best), but that these subjective and impossible to interpret at game speed rules have made each game an exercise in subjectivity.  Defensive holding is a prime example.  It's a penalty that could get called on every play of the game.  Instead of being a simple five yard penalty, which it really should be, it's an automatic first down.  That's a huge momentum shift.  Same with defensive pass interference, same with every unnecessary roughness call on a QB sack.  The game has become impossible to officiate, and therein lies the biggest problem.  Yes, some officials and their crews are better than others and some are worse (Boger has always been a total hack), but the issue to me is not so much the officiating but the rules that the refs are asked to enforce and the judgment calls they are forced to make.  Goodell has set up a system where the refs are destined to fail and determine the outcome of games and that's really, really unfortunate for the players and the fans.

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Also, on the play where the Carolina gunner went out of bounds on the punt and came back in, that's supposed to be an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for 15 yards... instead it was something for 5 yards that I'd never heard before.

 

Yes, it's 15 yards if the gunner doesn't make an effort to come back inbouds right away. 

 

I think the return team can get a penalty (10 yards? 15?) if they don't let him back in. UC?  

 

5 yards if the gunner who went out of bounds is the first to touch the ball. Illegal touching.

There is a difference between going out of bounds unforced and coming back in and being first to tackle the returner which is a 5 yard penalty and going out running down the sideline and not coming back in immediately which is the 15 yarder

 

You can be the first to tackle him as long as you re-establish yourself in the field of play, you just can't be the first to touch the ball.

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Subjective reffing, unfortunately, is what the NFL wants. This way nobody can really complain when the league itself or the refs or a bookie in NYC decide who gets away with a OL hold on a TD for instance, and who doesn't. He'll, OL holding isn't even a real penalty anymore, except when it is and usually when it's called it's a headscratcher.

The NFL is laughing at us and I wouldn't be surprised if some people are making a killing influencing the outcome of these games.

There are literally 100s of calls that could go one way or the other in an NFL game and if you watch an entire weekend of games you will see these same potential calls go for or against or not called at all. It's a joke at this point.

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As bad as we played that week, we only ended up losing by one possession (8 points) due to this "inadvertent whistle" call

game footage

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000090886/article/nfl-deangelo-williams-td-shouldnt-have-counted

Exact same "inadvertent whistle" situation that happened to us against the Panthers in 2012 just happened in the Bills/ Patriots game.

When it's our team, the refs refuse to acknowledge the whistle and let the touchdown stand. When it's another team, the ball is ruled dead at the spot of the catch.  That doesn't seem like "general ineptitude across the board", that seems like different enforcement of the rules for different teams. 

 

Patriots/Bills Whistle

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14210064/inadvertent-whistle-new-england-patriots-buffalo-bills-game-latest-officiating-controversy-monday-night-football

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Culliver was charged $11,000 for unsportsmanlike conduct, not unnecessary roughness for his interception play.  Indicates that the league knows that roughness call should never have been made on the field

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2015/11/28/chris-culliver-fined-for-unsportsmanlike-conduct-not-unnecessary-roughness/

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Quite the large discrepancy for how NFL teams are allowed to follow concussion protocol. Compare Keenum's case, and lack of punishment, to the over the top response from the league deciding last minute to bench RG3 in the preseason after he had already been cleared. Redskins were also fined for incorrect press box announcement of RG3 concussion.

No penalties for the Rams for their mishandling of Keenum's concussion. Suprise suprise, Jeff Fischer is also on the competition committee.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/11/29/report-rams-wont-be-penalized-for-keenum-concussion-debacle/

mark schlereth ‏@markschlereth 2m2 minutes ago

NFL player safety is a joke. We will fine players for unavoidable contact... But we won't fine teams for putting a player's life in danger.

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3 days after calling out the refs for biased playcalling, Hatcher "can't remember" 

 

Master Tesfatsion ‏@MasterTes 53s53 seconds ago

Jason Hatcher was asked about his #Redskins name comments again today: "I don't remember that. ...I must be going crazy. I don't remember."

sounds like he should be placed under the concussion protocol - just in case

 

we better do it before the league penalises us for not doing it (and they take our 1st and 2nd round picks off us)

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Worth noting.

 

Pete Morelli's crew was punished by the NFL for their atrocious week 12 game calling and removed from officiating the Redskins/Cowboys Monday night game.  

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2594691-pete-morellis-officiating-crew-reportedly-removed-from-cowboys-vs-redskins

 

Perhaps the NFL doesn't trust these refs to follow the script and reassigned them?  Either way, seems like we dodged a bullet by not getting stuck with the NFL's least competent officiating crew in arguably our biggest game of the year.

 

 

Also, in an added twist, I added the below article because it originally said that this crew was supposed to officiate the Monday night Redskins/Cowboys game but as of 10:20 this morning the story was changed to say that they lost the chance to officiate the Sunday night Colts/Steelers game.  Sort of a weird discrepancy....

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/12/01/pete-morellis-crew-yanked-from-week-13-sunday-night-game/

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Fair and balanced distribution of fines?

DeAngelo Hall fined $8,681 for his hit on Beckham despite accidental contact and helping him up afterwards

http://was.247sports.com/Bolt/Redskins-NFL-fines-Deangelo-Hall-41741691

Brandon Browner not fined or penalized for his hit on Redskins lineman despite multiple articles calling it intentional, a cheap shot, and saying that he should expect a penalty from the league.

http://thebiglead.com/2015/11/16/did-brandon-browner-pass-up-a-tackle-to-take-a-cheap-shot-at-a-redskins-lineman/

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/11/16/9741794/brandon-browner-cheap-shot-saints-washington

(Site below tracks players penalties, Browner only has one for the season, suprise suprise, its against Beckham from the Giants game.  He has none from the game against Redskins)
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/fines-suspensions/new-orleans-saints/cornerback/

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